Does the EPL need its own "Rooney Rule?"

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Should the EPL institute its own "Rooney Rule"?

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:46 am

Some people seem to be confused with this rule somehow making managers be chosen if they're not good enough. That is not the case. The only thing that would happen would be that black managers would have an interview. Nothing else, nothing more.

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Post by Swanhends Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:29 am

che wrote:i'm amazed that in the land of lawsuits a law that clearly discriminates against white people exists

racial, gender, ethnic, whatever quota are absolute horseshit because someone somewhere will inevitably be overlooked for a position in favour of an inferior candidate because the inferior candidate is a woman/black/whatever

works both ways though:

"someone somewhere will inevitably be overlooked for a position in favor of an inferior candidate because the inferior candidate is white"

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:35 am

Sushi Master wrote:According to the CIA World Factbook, the UK only has a 2% black population. That ratio seems fair.

From someone who lives in the UK i can tell you that is a big pile of BS......

Anyway black coaches are not getting jobs because they are black its because there is'nt enough of them who are qualified for the jobs atleast in the top 2 tiers of english football anyway....

I hope that did'nt sound racist as that wasnt my intention.
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Post by Swanhends Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:42 am

Immaculate_Mole wrote:
Sushi Master wrote:According to the CIA World Factbook, the UK only has a 2% black population. That ratio seems fair.

From someone who lives in the UK i can tell you that is a big pile of BS......

Anyway black coaches are not getting jobs because they are black its because there is'nt enough of them who are qualified for the jobs atleast in the top 2 tiers of english football anyway....

I hope that did'nt sound racist as that wasnt my intention.

How do you explain the case of Davis (as mentioned in the article?)

Five YEARS coaching and he doesn't get past U-15??

Meanwhile Leonardo has never coached a professional team in his life and he gets named head coach of first Milan then Inter, Dalglish was first named Liverpool manager before he even retired etc etc
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:47 am

bhends wrote:
Immaculate_Mole wrote:
Sushi Master wrote:According to the CIA World Factbook, the UK only has a 2% black population. That ratio seems fair.

From someone who lives in the UK i can tell you that is a big pile of BS......

Anyway black coaches are not getting jobs because they are black its because there is'nt enough of them who are qualified for the jobs atleast in the top 2 tiers of english football anyway....

I hope that did'nt sound racist as that wasnt my intention.

How do you explain the case of Davis (as mentioned in the article?)

Five YEARS coaching and he doesn't get past U-15??

Meanwhile Leonardo has never coached a professional team in his life and he gets named head coach of first Milan then Inter, Dalglish was first named Liverpool manager before he even retired etc etc

Leonardo got jobs mainly due to the fact he was a big football name who won the WC with Brazil and was sporting director for Milan and Dalglish was a Liverpool legend hardly comparable situation imo.....

Basically they got jobs because they were playing at the top level...... is it right? probably not but i dont think these situations can be used in an argument why black coaches dont get opportunitys.

Also at that time Davis situation could have been down to racism but iam talking about today and is it stands i dont see many black coaches in england good enough to coach( atleast in the premier league anyway)


Last edited by Immaculate_Mole on Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by RedOranje Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:47 am

bhends wrote:
Immaculate_Mole wrote:
Sushi Master wrote:According to the CIA World Factbook, the UK only has a 2% black population. That ratio seems fair.

From someone who lives in the UK i can tell you that is a big pile of BS......

Anyway black coaches are not getting jobs because they are black its because there is'nt enough of them who are qualified for the jobs atleast in the top 2 tiers of english football anyway....

I hope that did'nt sound racist as that wasnt my intention.

How do you explain the case of Davis (as mentioned in the article?)

Five YEARS coaching and he doesn't get past U-15??

Meanwhile Leonardo has never coached a professional team in his life and he gets named head coach of first Milan then Inter, Dalglish was first named Liverpool manager before he even retired etc etc
This instance was due to the club's tradition of promoting from within... the "Bootroom" tradition as it was called. Nearly all of our managers came from within house up until the mid to late 90's. Dalglish was already a legendary player for the club and showed the requisite managerial acumen to take over... a decision quickly justified by the continued success of the club. While I don't know enough of England's, or Europe's, other clubs' managerial moves throughout history I can categorically state that Dalglish's promotion is a bad example to use for the point you are attempting to illustrate.
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Post by The Franchise Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:10 am

Immaculate_Mole wrote:
Sushi Master wrote:According to the CIA World Factbook, the UK only has a 2% black population. That ratio seems fair.

From someone who lives in the UK i can tell you that is a big pile of BS......

Anyway black coaches are not getting jobs because they are black its because there is'nt enough of them who are qualified for the jobs atleast in the top 2 tiers of english football anyway....

I hope that did'nt sound racist as that wasnt my intention.

Thats correct Mole, but like it says in the Op. Black coaches dont even want to try and get qualified, because they feel it wont get them anywhere due to a lack of chances.

Its a sort of cycle/chicken and egg situation here.
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Post by Abramovich Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:14 am

Immaculate_Mole wrote:
Sushi Master wrote:According to the CIA World Factbook, the UK only has a 2% black population. That ratio seems fair.

From someone who lives in the UK i can tell you that is a big pile of BS......

Anyway black coaches are not getting jobs because they are black its because there is'nt enough of them who are qualified for the jobs atleast in the top 2 tiers of english football anyway....

I hope that did'nt sound racist as that wasnt my intention.

Its from a 2001 census, so I'd expect the figure to be at least double that probably a bit more I live in Leeds currently so pretty multicultural city.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:23 am

Ade wrote:
Immaculate_Mole wrote:
Sushi Master wrote:According to the CIA World Factbook, the UK only has a 2% black population. That ratio seems fair.

From someone who lives in the UK i can tell you that is a big pile of BS......

Anyway black coaches are not getting jobs because they are black its because there is'nt enough of them who are qualified for the jobs atleast in the top 2 tiers of english football anyway....

I hope that did'nt sound racist as that wasnt my intention.

Its from a 2001 census, so I'd expect the figure to be at least double that probably a bit more I live in Leeds currently so pretty multicultural city.

Ah makes sense then as in the last 10 years immigration has gone up tenfold if not more....

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Thats correct Mole, but like it says in the Op. Black coaches dont even want to try and get qualified, because they feel it wont get them anywhere due to a lack of chances.

Its a sort of cycle/chicken and egg situation here.

Ah i must have missed that part i got to stop skimming through threads tbh........

I agree with that then that is an issue if people dont even want to try its different then......

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Post by Sushi Master Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:48 pm

Whoops, didn't know it was outdated data. Damn Factbook trolling me.

What Mole said. Doubt it's anything racist, because you have a hell lot of colored English players.
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Post by Lord Spencer Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:50 pm

che wrote:i'm amazed that in the land of lawsuits a law that clearly discriminates against white people exists

racial, gender, ethnic, whatever quota are absolute horseshit because someone somewhere will inevitably be overlooked for a position in favour of an inferior candidate because the inferior candidate is a woman/black/whatever


You sir are an imbecile, and let me dissect your post to show you the extent of the idiocy in it.

First, you claim that the Rooney law "discriminates" against white people. How does it do that when the only requirement is for teams to interview at least one black candidate. Not to hire him, not for him to get a better chance, but to interview. Then it is up to the team whether they would like to hire the coach or not. Did you even read the thread properly, or did you just resort to some stupid witticism and jumped in with a useless post.

Second, you claim such quota (which the law clearly does not support) because a better candidate will be overlooked by an inferior minority candidate. But you ignored the fact that the number of black coaches quadrupled, not because of any quota but because teams finally gave them a chance. And when they got their chance, they were very successful. I doubt any team will keep any coach if he was not successful.


Third, in the same argument you ignore that the U.S. for years resisted employing Indian and Asian Americans into the college systems out of fear they were "under-qualified". And when they unconditionally opened the door, up to 40% of college professors are Indian/Asian American. And this is just one example of where your argument turns worthless. In fact, it such argument that continues to economically marginalize minorities that makes it slightly true.

Fourth, you give the completely BS argument that if you deserve the job you will get. I don't where you live, but that is not true in life. Connections and a billion other factors can ruin your chances of even getting a chance. Really, what Micky Mouse world do you live in where everything that happens to you you deserve. Your arguments are of the same mold as blaming a raped women for getting raped.

@All, sorry for the rant but it had to be told.

On topic, saying that if you deserve the job you will get it is bull shit, it is not even real among white coaches. And the law does not force you to employ a black coach, it merely forces you to interview one. And if Paul Ince ruined the chances for other black coaches, then I have a dozen names of failed white coaches. As for making quota for Indians and Asians, the quota can simply be one minority candidate instead of one black candidate.
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Post by Moffo Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:14 pm

Maybe Paul Ince was just a shitty coach? I am strongly against these kinds of rules since bringing diversity through force seems counter productive.

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Post by chinomaster182 Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:00 pm

Lord Spencer wrote:
che wrote:i'm amazed that in the land of lawsuits a law that clearly discriminates against white people exists

racial, gender, ethnic, whatever quota are absolute horseshit because someone somewhere will inevitably be overlooked for a position in favour of an inferior candidate because the inferior candidate is a woman/black/whatever


You sir are an imbecile, and let me dissect your post to show you the extent of the idiocy in it.

First, you claim that the Rooney law "discriminates" against white people. How does it do that when the only requirement is for teams to interview at least one black candidate. Not to hire him, not for him to get a better chance, but to interview. Then it is up to the team whether they would like to hire the coach or not. Did you even read the thread properly, or did you just resort to some stupid witticism and jumped in with a useless post.

Second, you claim such quota (which the law clearly does not support) because a better candidate will be overlooked by an inferior minority candidate. But you ignored the fact that the number of black coaches quadrupled, not because of any quota but because teams finally gave them a chance. And when they got their chance, they were very successful. I doubt any team will keep any coach if he was not successful.


Third, in the same argument you ignore that the U.S. for years resisted employing Indian and Asian Americans into the college systems out of fear they were "under-qualified". And when they unconditionally opened the door, up to 40% of college professors are Indian/Asian American. And this is just one example of where your argument turns worthless. In fact, it such argument that continues to economically marginalize minorities that makes it slightly true.

Fourth, you give the completely BS argument that if you deserve the job you will get. I don't where you live, but that is not true in life. Connections and a billion other factors can ruin your chances of even getting a chance. Really, what Micky Mouse world do you live in where everything that happens to you you deserve. Your arguments are of the same mold as blaming a raped women for getting raped.

@All, sorry for the rant but it had to be told.

On topic, saying that if you deserve the job you will get it is bull shit, it is not even real among white coaches. And the law does not force you to employ a black coach, it merely forces you to interview one. And if Paul Ince ruined the chances for other black coaches, then I have a dozen names of failed white coaches. As for making quota for Indians and Asians, the quota can simply be one minority candidate instead of one black candidate.

I have a gay crush on you Wink

This rule is a good idea, not only because it is already been tested to work, but because there is discrimination on Black players and other minorities for the coaching position.

Read the book "Soccernomics" by Simon Kuper and Stefan Symansky. They devout a whole chapter to demonstrate how racism existed in black players and how it now exists for the coaching position.

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