Does the EPL need its own "Rooney Rule?"

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Should the EPL institute its own "Rooney Rule"?

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Post by Swanhends Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:50 pm

TheMirror wrote:Paul Davis gets a reaction when he tells black players they should study for their coaching badges and try to become managers.

"The guys laugh in my face," he says.

It's not because they're rich or lazy or complacent or arrogant.

It's because they think it's futile. It's a waste of their time and a threat to their dignity. It's because their path is blocked.


Sometimes, they mention what happened to Davis himself. How he spent five years coaching the U13s and U15s at Arsenal before he quit in 2003 after his failure to progress.

Do you remember what Davis was like as an Arsenal player? Cultured, elegant, a clever passer of the ball. A thinking man's player.

He won the title twice under George Graham in 1989 and 1991. He's a bright bloke, too. Personable, articulate and smart. He could show players his medals, too.

Let's be honest: if Davis was white, one of our league clubs would have snapped him up as soon as his playing career had finished.

It never happened. And after he quit as a youth coach, he hasn't even bothered to put himself forward for management jobs. His confidence is shot.

"I don't want to put myself in a situation where people are embarrassing me," he says. "I am not confident about the hiring processes.

"Now, I see the same kind of fear in the eyes of more players who are coming through and want to be managers."

Davis, 49, works for the Professional Footballers' Association now, desperately trying to improve the chances of players from ethnic minorities finding a manager's job.

Because let's face it, the situation at the moment is embarrassing.

We have some room to boast about the progress we have made in tackling racism in football in this country.

But there are 92 managers of Premier League and Football League clubs and only two of them - Chris Powell at Charlton and Chris Hughton at Birmingham City -are black.

That means that 25% of our 4,500 professional players are from ethnic minorities and only 2% of our managers.

Davis wants to do something about it. So does the man who was sitting next to him at a hotel in London's Kensington yesterday morning.

Cyrus Mehri, an eminent lawyer who is one of the architects of the Rooney Rule in American Football's NFL, addressed representatives of the FA, the Premier League, the PFA and the League Managers' Association yesterday.

Many are now pressing for our clubs to be forced to adopt an English equivalent of the Rooney Rule.

Named after Dan Rooney, the owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers, the rule, which was introduced in 2003, obliged NFL teams to interview at least one black candidate when a head coaching position became vacant.

The Rooney Rule transformed the league. There are four times more black head coaches now than there were in 2003.

And guess what, many of them have been outstandingly successful. In fact, in 2007 both the teams that reached the Super Bowl, the Indianapolis Colts and the Chicago Bears, were run by black coaches.

"There were some problems at first," Mehri said. "The Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones thought it was okay to interview the black candidate over the phone and all the white candidates face to face.

"If there is passive racism present somewhere, we have found it erodes during the interview process. Sometimes, people are surprised with the calibre of a man when they meet him face to face.

"What kind of message is English football sending with someone like Paul Davis? If he was white, he would be fast-tracked. If he is black, he will be marginalised.

"We are not saying clubs have to hire minority candidates. We are just saying 'give them a chance, maybe you don't know what you're missing'."

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/oliver-holt/Why-English-football-needs-it-s-own-version-of-NFL-s-Rooney-rule-to-really-eradicate-racism-Oliver-Holt-column-article795528.html

Thoughts?
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Post by Lord Awesome Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:06 pm

Left you hangin'. Laughing

Kinda racist, no?
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Post by Abramovich Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:08 pm

Load of crap if they are good enough they will get snapped him regardless of skin colour.
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Post by The Franchise Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:12 pm

Well this isnt the reason I didnt get my coaching badges to be honest, but yeah, its apperent there is a lack of black coaches for whatever reason at the higher levels.

Does something need to be done about that? Yeah I think it does, there are surely bright football minds out there who happen to be black and can contribute.

But what will interviewing really do? Its very easy for a chairmen, sporting direction or whoever makes that decision to turn a blind eye if they are really and truely against it.



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Post by Swanhends Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:15 pm

The Franchise wrote:But what will interviewing really do? Its very easy for a chairmen, sporting direction or whoever makes that decision to turn a blind eye if they are really and truely against it.

For some, certainly. People said the same things when it was instituted in the NFL...

but now there are 4 times as many black coaches as there were before the rule was instituted, and its hard to argue with that, even if (somehow) it is just some kind of big coincidence
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Post by The Franchise Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:18 pm

bhends wrote:
The Franchise wrote:But what will interviewing really do? Its very easy for a chairmen, sporting direction or whoever makes that decision to turn a blind eye if they are really and truely against it.

For some, certainly. People said the same things when it was instituted in the NFL...

but now there are 4 times as many black coaches as there were before the rule was instituted, and its hard to argue with that, even if (somehow) it is just some kind of big coincidence

Very true. I have to admit that there is no way that is purely coincidence. I just dont know how that changed things.

Perhaps the issue is purely perception. So once the NFL guys actually met and interviewed those coaches their perceptions changed.
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Post by lenear1030 Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:19 pm

Ade wrote:Load of crap if they are good enough they will get snapped him regardless of skin colour.


i cant comment on conditions in england because i dont live there, but that same type of attitude was pretty much the reason why the rooney rule was instituted in the NFL over here in the states.


minority candidates were qualified but just weren't being given chances. and just for clarification, the rooney rule just requires that teams interview a racial/ethnic minority candidate for a head coaching position. they're not forced to hire them at all


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Post by Art Morte Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:23 pm

Would be interesting to know how many ethnic minority football coaches there are in England. Is the "problem" more about club owners not fancying ethnic minority managers or about the low number of such managers.
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Post by The Franchise Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:25 pm

To be honest, I dont know how anyone here has the ability to say how equal the ops are.

What knowledge do you have to be so sure?

I dont get how anyone can make the statement "if they are good enough they will get snapped him regardless of skin colour". There is no way for any of us to know if thats true.

All we do know is there are hardly any black coaches at the top level and many black coaches at a lower level feel it pointless to try because of the perception of inequality.

We know nothing more and nothing less then that.
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Post by free_cat Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:28 pm

I think it would be a good rule. It doesn't force anyone and it can help level out something that is clearly unequal, probably not due to straight racism, but more likely because "the way to go" when hiring a manager is hiring a middle aged ex-pro white man, and in football chairmans are usually bonded by traditions or general perceptions.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:31 pm

Very interesting article. I was not aware of this NFL rule. I'd have to say it should be instituted, or at least some like-effort of equalizing the playing field. I very much like the idea of an interview, because it's not invasive. The owners can't claim that they don't have total control, and the only added cost is that of a one hour interview.

The article says the NFL currently has 4 times more than before, but does anyone know what the percentage of black or minority coaches were before?

All in all though, and this is the opinion of a non-expert, but Italy, the Netherlands, Spain and Germany all produce fantastic coaches. Some more than others, sure, but I'm sure we could all name 3 great coaches from each of these countries that are still actively managing a top team. This is not the case for England, and I'm sure this is just one of the problems with their management schools. From what I've gathered from some previews comments it seems that the barriers of entry are too high and that the school itself is not good enough. Seems to me, they could use a complete overhaul. Invite some Italian or Dutch experts from their FA and figure out what they could be doing better.
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Post by Seppuku Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:29 pm

England is a good 100 years behind the US when it comes to racial integration. The rest of Europe is a good 200.

This Rooney rule would do nothing over there.

I say, affirmative action that ish and put a quota.

25% players : 25% managers.


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Post by che Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:35 pm

i'm amazed that in the land of lawsuits a law that clearly discriminates against white people exists

racial, gender, ethnic, whatever quota are absolute horseshit because someone somewhere will inevitably be overlooked for a position in favour of an inferior candidate because the inferior candidate is a woman/black/whatever
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Post by Sushi Master Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:42 pm

England is one of the most culturally diverse countries on Earth. They have players from all over. 100 years behind the US? I'd consider the US behind England in racial integration, actually. It might just be because racial abuse gets so much coverage in the US, but I find Englishmen are much more tolerable. Look at the Premier, it probably has a huge number of colored players. Even colored English players. This is all with whites hugely outnumbering blacks.

With football being a world sport and all, I don't find it a big problem. Everyone is coexisting. Maybe in Italy, Russia and Spain, places where you still have problems of racism against players this will make sence, but really, these places don't even have much of a black population to begin with.

In Germany you have a large Turk population and they are doing fine. In France you have a great number of black players, no racism there. It's more a problem of culture than anything.

IMO, UEFA should tackle these already existing problems rather than divert their focus on the manager issue, which really isn't a big deal. If they're good enough they will get jobs are coaches or whatever without much trouble.
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Post by Magricos Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:52 pm

This isn't about UEFA.

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Post by Sushi Master Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:55 pm

Magricos wrote: This isn't about UEFA.
Well, I'm talking racism in general and UEFA needs to get it's balls off and do something about it. The anti racism campaigns didn't work at all. There's still a hell lot of racism which is disgusting in today's world.

The Rooney Rule shouldn't be the issue because there are bigger problems already, is the point I'm trying to make.
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Post by Seppuku Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:57 pm

25: 2

can under-representation get any clearer?
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Post by Sushi Master Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:11 pm

According to the CIA World Factbook, the UK only has a 2% black population. That ratio seems fair.
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Post by McLewis Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:14 pm

che wrote:i'm amazed that in the land of lawsuits a law that clearly discriminates against white people exists

racial, gender, ethnic, whatever quota are absolute horseshit because someone somewhere will inevitably be overlooked for a position in favour of an inferior candidate because the inferior candidate is a woman/black/whatever

Most certainly agree. Affirmative Action is an archaic practice that is no longer needed here in the States nor should it be instituted anywhere else because once it's started, it's incredibly tough to end.
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Post by poolsupporter Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:15 pm

It's a stupid rule IMO. If they want to this for black coaches, then why not go ahead and implement something similar for Indian, Arab or Far East Asian coaches? There aren't many, if any, brown coaches in the PL, etc. Racists!

Managers get chosen based on their abilities. I've never read about a situation where it even remotely suggests otherwise.
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Post by NiallQuinnsdiscoPants Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:18 pm

Stupid rule and wouldn't work here

The countries bad enough as it is with political correctness and pleasing ethnics.

If the black guy went for the job and never got it he would probably get offended and say I didn't get the job because im black then sue.

the person with the best attributes to suit the job should be the one who receives it in any situation.
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Post by justdoit_ Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:22 pm

It works in the NFL because their are literally hundreds of African American former players who know the game like the back of their hand and could easily slot into a coaching position if they felt like it.


Different situations, no real need for it.
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Post by McLewis Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:25 pm

That Paul Ince failed horribly at Blackburn doesn't really help the case for apsiring Black EPL coaches as well..
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Post by Ali Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:40 pm

First dark coach to coach successfully ... Thierry Henry.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:46 pm

Some people seem to be confused with this rule somehow making managers be chosen if they're not good enough. That is not the case. The only thing that would happen would be that black managers would have an interview. Nothing else, nothing more.
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