Re: Mats Hummels - Borussia Dortmund #15

by Swanhends Sat 25 May 2013 - 23:17

He's only 24 calma

According to GL there is no such thing as a good defender

by Casciavit Sat 25 May 2013 - 23:17

inb4 mole

by Milantildeath Sat 25 May 2013 - 23:18

Subotic is the better of the two. Positioning-wise they are miles apart.Subotic is the better of the two. Positioning-wise they are miles apart.

by Dante Sat 25 May 2013 - 23:28

Swanhends wrote:He's only 24 calma

According to GL there is no such thing as a good defender

by Art Morte Sun 26 May 2013 - 0:25

Swanhends wrote:He's only 24 calma

According to GL there is no such thing as a good defender

To expand this sentiment to philosophical depths: It is true that forwards can make 10 mistakes to defender's one before they get the same amount of criticism; On the other hand it could be argued that successful individual attacking plays take more talent and skill than individual defending heroics hmm

by Swanhends Sun 26 May 2013 - 0:30

There is not one centerback, even on the top teams, who hasn't gotten bashed by multiple GL members as being shit

that is a fact

by Chumlum Sun 26 May 2013 - 0:32

Swanhends wrote:There is not one centerback, even on the top teams, who hasn't gotten bashed by multiple GL members as being shit

that is a fact

If you make any mistakes in a high-profile game, logic dictates that you suck.

Especially if someone doesn't usually watch that club or that league, and they happen to see a bad game.

Laughing

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun 26 May 2013 - 0:34

Subotic was to blame for the 1st goal with a school boy positional error and the 2nd goal wasn't his fault either and he prevented many Bayern attacks.

Carry on though.

by Zealous Sun 26 May 2013 - 0:39

He was bad, this wasn't the first time either. I agree with Bhends that GL hands out the punishment too readily on CBs but in this case it's actually pretty deserved.

Hummels has done nothing to justify the hype as far as I'm concerned. Dude is Pique 2.0 just waiting to be fully exposed.

by Dante Sun 26 May 2013 - 0:42

Art Morte wrote:
Swanhends wrote:He's only 24 calma

According to GL there is no such thing as a good defender

To expand this sentiment to philosophical depths: It is true that forwards can make 10 mistakes to defender's one before they get the same amount of criticism; On the other hand it could be argued that successful individual attacking plays take more talent and skill than individual defending heroics

What is easier ? To create a building or destroy it ? The same applies with forwards and defenders. In Hummels case though , we talk about a defender who creates as well. Rare amongst defenders and usualy those kind are the best around as well.

That Hummels gets the stick right now is only evidence of his status and quality , nothing more. Every great defender has had mistakes during big games , you can't reach a certain level without seeing each side of the coin .

*not meant for you , specificaly , just saying.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun 26 May 2013 - 0:45

What did he do to cost the team? I really didn't see it....

Funny how everyone is praising Subotic when his stupid decision to push up and leave a massive hole was the reason for the first goal....

by Art Morte Sun 26 May 2013 - 0:51

In the end the way I feel the case is with Hummels is that he's a brilliant ball-playing CB with good tactical awareness, but lacks physical dominance which can be sometimes exposed and exploited, like tonight. It's very rare that you get all of that awesomeness in the same package, technique, intelligence and physicality and most of the time having just two of the three makes you a very good defender.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun 26 May 2013 - 0:53

Can someone please tell me what horrible error he commited? Laughing

by Art Morte Sun 26 May 2013 - 0:59

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Can someone please tell me what horrible error he commited?

Was playing CB when their defence lost a long ball right down the middle to the dominant aerial presence of Ribery and Robben.

by Dante Sun 26 May 2013 - 1:21

And in Robben's goal , i can't imagine how many defenders would do better than he did really , didn't those who doubt him see how Robben got in there Laughing

? Sometimes , there are a few players on their day who are actualy unstoppable at some point, no matter how great a defender is .

I remember Nesta once said that no matter how many times he watched that lost Uefa cup final against Inter , he couldn't get what he did wrong against Ronaldo that night. He admitted that , he did nothing wrong afterall , it was just Ronaldo who was unstoppable. Now , i am not making a direct comparison here , but if anything , the theory stands as well.

Hummels isn't directly at fault for the goals , nor did he have a bad final. It's just some things a defender can't prevent from happening. Now if he did a few mistakes here and there , as long as they didn't result into goal , you can move on.

by Dante Sun 26 May 2013 - 1:28

Art Morte wrote:In the end the way I feel the case is with Hummels is that he's a brilliant ball-playing CB with good tactical awareness, but lacks physical dominance which can be sometimes exposed and exploited, like tonight. It's very rare that you get all of that awesomeness in the same package, technique, intelligence and physicality and most of the time having just two of the three makes you a very good defender.

Precisely.

by Tomwin Lannister Sun 26 May 2013 - 1:32

Hummels may not have been directly at fault for the first goal, but nearly everything that went in the air was past him, people got in behind him all night long and he looked lost.

At the end of the day, his job is to stop the other team from getting chances. He couldn't do that well.

Which defender is better. The defender who lets the other team get in behind him, but isn't at fault for a goal or the defender who dominates his opponents all night long but they grab a goal anyway?

I'd say the latter. Hummels never cost BvB the first goal. But that's just up to Bayerns finishing or lack of.

by McAgger Sun 26 May 2013 - 1:34

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Can someone please tell me what horrible error he commited?

Right prior to Robben shooting right into Weidenfeller's face, he let the ball fly right past his head and he was the only defender. Awful defending saved by an awful finish.

by Tomwin Lannister Sun 26 May 2013 - 1:40

He made so, so many errors. What i'm trying to say is just because bayern didn't punish his errors with a goal, doesn't make them any less of an error.

He does not have a telepathic ability to make players miss, his errors may not have been COSTLY, but they were very bad.

All knee jerking aside here, he's a good defender.
But quite far behind some of the names he's been compared with/to.

by Dante Sun 26 May 2013 - 1:55

AbraKebabra Alacalamb wrote:Hummels may not have been directly at fault for the first goal, but nearly everything that went in the air was past him, people got in behind him all night long and he looked lost.

At the end of the day, his job is to stop the other team from getting chances. He couldn't do that well.

Which defender is better. The defender who lets the other team get in behind him, but isn't at fault for a goal or the defender who dominates his opponents all night long but they grab a goal anyway?

I'd say the latter. Hummels never cost BvB the first goal. But that's just up to Bayerns finishing or lack of.

Nearly everything is a big word and in Hummels's case , it's not true. I recall enough moments during the final, though mostly in the first half, in which he denied both Muller and Mandzukic , but especialy Robben ,when in aid to Schmelzer.

Obviously he wasn't at the same place at every given time and he couldn't possible deny everything either ; but it has a lot to do with Bayern as well , that's why Bayern won this season's CL, because they were on top of their game. Subotic saved a certain goal and won a header here and there , but once he decided to move a bit forward and the space he left became too attractive for his opponents and that actualy did lead to a goal. Not could have.. not would have.. did.

Tactical awarness matter the most at CB and when you can play a ball/pass or two like Hummels , you can't but be a very good defender. Subotic is a beast physicaly , yet without a defender like Hummels next to him to lead and call offsides or instruct , you'd be surprised as to how much they would exploit his area. It has been already evident when Hummels did miss games this season .

With that said , Hummels has flaws , such as his physicality , but one could argue he just made it into the final , he was injured some days ago. Nevertheless. Defence is a collective aspect of the game , not just the CBs role. When a CB has some certain traits and does his very best to defend his goal posts , you have to rate that. Mistakes will happen , happens with the best , but sometimes you just move on and this was one of those nights.

A CB can't just stop everything that comes his way. And that does not make him bad either. This Bayern had their very best season of their carreers , of course Hummels wasn't able to stop the majority of the attacks as the game went on. That's the reason they won the CL afterall and they faced many great defenders and defences along the way , along with Dortmund which they only just won tonight , mind you .

by windkick Sun 26 May 2013 - 3:03

Art Morte wrote:In the end the way I feel the case is with Hummels is that he's a brilliant ball-playing CB with good tactical awareness, but lacks physical dominance which can be sometimes exposed and exploited, like tonight. It's very rare that you get all of that awesomeness in the same package, technique, intelligence and physicality and most of the time having just two of the three makes you a very good defender.

Well said. I usually agree with your well thought out posts

I think Hummels gets too much flame. Seems to you guys a player is elite or over rated if not perfect all the time. The guy is great defender but obviously, like most other defenders, needs some one next to him that will compliment his faults. The way Puyol did with Pique, etc

by The Franchise Sun 26 May 2013 - 3:10

He had a bad game. I don't think that's debateble.

He didn't directly cost them anything but he didn't deal with routine high balls, the worst of which gifted Robben a chance.

But on the ball he wasn't good either, gave it away trying to be a deep lying playmaker.

Just didn't look good.

by Mr Nick09 Sun 26 May 2013 - 3:23

Mole i love you, but you need to take off those tinted glasses. If it was Ramos having a similar game, you would be mocking him here to no end. pls sthap. hummels was terrible tonight, it's ok to admit as much

by 3lite Sun 26 May 2013 - 6:27

Matt Hummels is kinda of like the CRonaldo of CBs. He's German, he's good looking, gets a lot of girls attention, feminine guy, and well-rounded.

Also, Dortmund plays a very high line of defense... I think Hummels is better suited playing a bit farther back.

by Red Alert Sun 26 May 2013 - 8:16

To judge him as a "poor defender" for a bad day at the office is stupid. He's still one of the top defenders going around.

by Hapless_Hans Mon 7 Oct 2013 - 11:06

Simply majectic.. he's the new Beckenbauer, only much better looking. Wink

Lasting damage done to Bayern by Klinsmann in not giving him perspective and letting him go -while his father was a long time Bayern employee.
Well, he's found his happiness elsewhere. Good for Dortmund.

Also he was the one who was most publicly angry with Götze for 'betraying' the Dortmund project, and probably is one very strong force in keeping Dortmund's rising stars together.

Really don't see why Löw had to dress him down publicly, imo the German national team defense should be Hummels/Boateng, with Merte on the bench!

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