The Netherlands

Compared to the last WC this team lacks dynamism, drive, and experience, as well as a singular cohesive mentality. Say what you like about van Marwijk, but he and Van Bommel had the midfield running well and very well marshaled. Since Strootman got injured I haven't seen that in the current side.

They still stand a strong chance of getting out of the group, but I would be quite surprised if they beat Spain or Brazil or any other major team.

Pretty astonishing that except for RvP and Robben, and de Jong kind of, no Dutch player plays for a European top team.

That really depends on how you define "European top teams."

Galatasaray, Fenerbarche, Dynamo Kiev, Schalke, PSV, Ajax, and Feyenoord all regularly compete for trophies domestically and play in European cup competitions and/or have a notable and significant history on the continent. Most would consider them to be top European clubs.

RedOranje wrote:Say what you like about van Marwijk, but he and Van Bommel had the midfield running well and very well marshaled.

Very well said. van Bommel was hated for being a dirty player but he was very key for the Dutch in 2010. Without the protection he offered all the flair that the Dutch are capable of does not seem enough to take them too far.

RedOranje wrote:That really depends on how you define "European top teams."

Galatasaray, Fenerbarche, Dynamo Kiev, Schalke, PSV, Ajax, and Feyenoord all regularly compete for trophies domestically and play in European cup competitions and/or have a notable and significant history on the continent. Most would consider them to be top European clubs.

You know exactly what I mean.
Of course if you prefer to argue semantics..

RedOranje wrote:Compared to the last WC this team lacks dynamism, drive, and experience, as well as a singular cohesive mentality.  Say what you like about van Marwijk, but he and Van Bommel had the midfield running well and very well marshaled.  Since Strootman got injured I haven't seen that in the current side.

I don't see how. The major players for the team are going to be Sneijder, RVP, Robben and Blind IMO and besides a poor run of form for Sneijder they are all better than their counterparts 4 years ago (ie. themselves besides Blind). De Jong is better now than he was 4 years ago as well, and Janmaat offers a better RB as well. There may be less experience, but there's still plenty there and it's better to have a mix of youth and experience anyway.

I do think that there is an issue with cohesion and leadership which could sink them against bigger teams, and van Bommel was key in the playstyle they had in South Africa, but talent wise he's easy to replace. Unfortunately RVP is not the leading type. Someone needs to step up and be an on field leader for them to go far...that's where I think missing out on Strootman really hurts the team (aside from him also being a WC midfielder).

They still stand a strong chance of getting out of the group, but I would be quite surprised if they beat Spain or Brazil or any other major team.

I guess we'll see. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but I think it's mostly that people are being pessimistic after Euro 2012. This team is as good or better on paper than the one that went to the final in 2010 -- it's just about execution.

feels like Euro 2008, or Argentina in 2006 ... hopefully it won't be a case of peaking too early this time ...

but for now, it's time for van Gaal to revel as the tactical mastermind behind this annihilation ... simply amazing!   

       

Hopefully they can maintain this form. I'd love nothing more than to eat my words about my concerns for the team.

2nd half performance was incredible.

Robben was out of this world.

And wow, I don't think I've ever seen as much gritty focus in a defender's face than in Martins Indi's.
Never seen him before except for highlights, but this kid is going to be a star.
My FAVOURITE scene has to be when this 22 year old kid in his first World Cup match dressed down the referee for spraying this free kick stuff on his shoes
Fantastic!

I told you guys.

Gil wrote:Van Gaal

Clearly wants an early exit. Can't believe Van Aanholt was left out.

  

^   

So if Netherlands finish 1st and they beat Croatia/Mexico in the last 16, they will face Italy/England/Uruguay on the quarters

De Guzman and Indi are the weak links on the starting team IMO and should be replaced with Wijnaldum/Clasie and Veltman. Otherwise as a group they can really come together and be dangerous. They still have some really nice attacking options off the bench, too, in Depay and Lens. Depay specifically.

De Guzman shouldn't be a starter but replacing him with Wijnaldum or Clasie wouldn't really improve the situation imo. He's starting because we don't have better players and that's a shame but it's just what it is right now. I agree that Veltman should replace BMI but he's not really ready yet either. Still quite error prone but yeah, still better than Indi.

In fact a lot of those players are not really good enough (some not yet, some never will be) but that's just what it is. They have to work together as a unit and hope that van Persie and Robben will be on fire for the whole tourament. To be honest I think we'll get one bad game of those two after the group stage and it's game over.

Funny thing is that some people on here really seem to think BMI is all that based on some odd Oranje games they've seen. Anyone who watches de Eredivisie knows he has a long way to go and that his potential isn't even that high. Lapses of concentration, inconsistent and not good at reading the game. I agree that he was one of the worst for us in that game against Spain.

I'm basing all my judgement on BMI on that one game I've seen now, so if you say I don't know anything you're pretty much right.

zigra wrote:De Guzman shouldn't be a starter but replacing him with Wijnaldum or Clasie wouldn't really improve the situation imo. He's starting because we don't have better players and that's a shame but it's just what it is right now. I agree that Veltman should replace BMI but he's not really ready yet either. Still quite error prone but yeah, still better than Indi.

Veltman I think can provide a much better option than Indi. Also Wijnaldum is head and shoulders better than De Guzman, and when he was subbed on the team looked even better than it already did. He's just such a better player I don't know why De Guzman is starting over him...maybe because Wijnaldum has had fitness issues with his back this year.

In fact a lot of those players are not really good enough (some not yet, some never will be) but that's just what it is. They have to work together as a unit and hope that van Persie and Robben will be on fire for the whole tourament. To be honest I think we'll get one bad game of those two after the group stage and it's game over.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Only player that looked out of place really against Spain was Indi. He still has potential, but outside of that all of Blind, Janmaat and Sneijder put in great games as well as Vlaar and De Jong. The Netherlands is a legitimate team, and with the 5 - 3 - 2 (which is really more of a 3 - 5 - 2) that really takes advantage of Blind and Janmaat to constantly outnumber the opposition all over the pitch they are going to be a strong team against anyone even if Robben and RVP are not on fire (though obviously any team needs their star players to play well in order to win the WC).

El Cujo wrote:

zigra wrote:De Guzman shouldn't be a starter but replacing him with Wijnaldum or Clasie wouldn't really improve the situation imo. He's starting because we don't have better players and that's a shame but it's just what it is right now. I agree that Veltman should replace BMI but he's not really ready yet either. Still quite error prone but yeah, still better than Indi.

Veltman I think can provide a much better option than Indi. Also Wijnaldum is head and shoulders better than De Guzman, and when he was subbed on the team looked even better than it already did. He's just such a better player I don't know why De Guzman is starting over him...maybe because Wijnaldum has had fitness issues with his back this year.

In fact a lot of those players are not really good enough (some not yet, some never will be) but that's just what it is. They have to work together as a unit and hope that van Persie and Robben will be on fire for the whole tourament. To be honest I think we'll get one bad game of those two after the group stage and it's game over.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Only player that looked out of place really against Spain was Indi. He still has potential, but outside of that all of Blind, Janmaat and Sneijder put in great games as well as Vlaar and De Jong. The Netherlands is a legitimate team, and with the 5 - 3 - 2 (which is really more of a 3 - 5 - 2) that really takes advantage of Blind and Janmaat to constantly outnumber the opposition all over the pitch they are going to be a strong team against anyone even if Robben and RVP are not on fire (though obviously any team needs their star players to play well in order to win the WC).

Wijnaldum has not done anything of note in his career. He is also a hustler and an energy player, more of a CAM than CM.

I have liked him since his days at Feyenoord when he was a RW. But he has not grown. He does not have the vision and intelliegence to stand out at CM. De Guzman has, and this is why he starts. When Wijnaldum came the match was around 3-1 odd and Spain were getting killed in the counters. It suited him. Oranje needed a high energy skilled guy like him.

I would never play him @ CM at the start of a match. I am biased towards Clasie, but a midfield of De Jong, Clasie & Sneijder will get aerially overpowered.

Madvillain wrote:Funny thing is that some people on here really seem to think BMI is all that based on some odd Oranje games they've seen. Anyone who watches de Eredivisie knows he has a long way to go and that his potential isn't even that high. Lapses of concentration, inconsistent and not good at reading the game. I agree that he was one of the worst for us in that game against Spain.

I have seen BMI from his Feyenoord matches where I recognized his talent. He is everything you say him not to be. He has been the most consistent CB for Oranje.

De Vrij has been a softie and has made mistakes. Vetlman is the guy with probably the highest potential and reminds me of Vertonghen. But he makes regular blunders both for Ajax and for Oranje. There is a reason why Veltman is not starting.

If I had to choose the highest potential Dutch CB I would go for Kongolo and I saw talent when he was not even playing for the Feyenoord main team. But he is way too raw and will be over-awed for the occasion.

And for your information I did not like BMI vs Spain. He ventured far too forward with weird runs and I like my CB's disciplined.

Clasie looked great in the friendlies leading up the WC. Is he not a better midfield option than De Guzman?

Footyfan wrote:Wijnaldum has not done anything of note in his career. He is also a hustler and an energy player, more of a CAM than CM.

I have liked him since his days at Feyenoord when he was a RW. But he has not grown. He does not have the vision and intelliegence to stand out at CM. De Guzman has, and this is why he starts. When Wijnaldum came the match was around 3-1 odd and Spain were getting killed in the counters. It suited him. Oranje needed a high energy skilled guy like him.

Maybe you haven't watched him since his Feyenoord days because he has progressed quite a bit and has been playing as a CM since going to PSV -- and dominating there when healthy. His only real issues have been with injury and a really troubling back injury at that. He's actually a very intelligent player though yes he is more offensively inclined, De Guzman is not a better option especially with the defensively insulation that the 5 - 3 - 2 provides. His athleticism and skill are definitely his two stronger points, though I don't see why you would say he hasn't done anything of note in his career...I mean he's only 23.

But we can agree to disagree. I really wish Strootman were healthy, or that Van Ginkel had been called to the squad.

windkick wrote:Clasie looked great in the friendlies leading up the WC. Is he not a better midfield option than De Guzman?

I dont know the answer to this, but from what I see De Guzman is a energetic and willing defensive player. The formation requires De Jong and who he plays next to, to do alot of hustling.

Clasie is better than De Guzman and very solid defensively. He's also more responsible with the ball and was earmarked as the 'Dutch Xavi' although clearly not at the same level, and I would play him 10 times out of 10 over De Guzman.

Really nothing against him he just shouldn't be a starter for this team.