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Post by Rossoneri Ninja Tue 30 Aug 2011, 13:06

Just found out Brigate is permanently banned !!!Carlo is gone, now Brigate... this is just weak

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Post by S Tue 30 Aug 2011, 13:28

I think Brigate is banned for only a couple of weeks..Dostoevsky just informed a few of us regarding this issue a few days ago..

Whilst Milanista99 hasnt posted in about three weeks..Dunno about him..

And Giancarlo is busy trolling on Goal.com Laughing

Edit:Brigate is indeed Perma-Banned..I have a feeling Pato-7 was his other account..What's happening to this forum..Imo most peaceful forum with well-behaved guys on Goallegacy..


Last edited by Surag.Blueguy on Fri 02 Sep 2011, 15:28; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Rossoneri Ninja Tue 30 Aug 2011, 13:47

This just ruined my day..
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Post by Forza Tue 30 Aug 2011, 15:52

what happened to cause the bannings?
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Post by dostoevsky Fri 02 Sep 2011, 08:39

Brigate's ban was for multi-accounting, so it's unfortunately not something I can negotiate. If you want to talk about it further, feel free to PM me though.

Milanista hasn't been around in ages and I can't remember whether he said he was going anywhere, I hope he's alright. He's probably off bossing something in a land without internet though :coffee:
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Post by IrasMaldinista Fri 02 Sep 2011, 11:29

Been feeling out of consciousness of late... And I both know and don't know why.

If you have noticed, I was absent here on Monday and Tuesday, because I was on a short trip. What that trip did to me is the reason why I'm still feeling like hanging in a weird limbo, absolutely drowned in oblivion.

I don't know, has my growth been oppressed and cracked down for too long and as a result, is now just bursting out of me with pressure instead of just being exuded?


My Sim card got lost and I lost contact with the rest of the world in a lonely place, in a lonely town I've never been to, and with me all alone with a couple of DVDs, a couch and a bed...

I felt both free and like suffocating, because I didn't know what I'm going through.

At some point I thought about... Whatever, let's not talk about it.

Then, as my companion in this strange trip had gone away for some reasons and left me midway through it, I decided I should go back home, where I know people, where I can return to being my real self.

It was eye-opening, what I experienced in this journey, however short, and I learned a useful thing or two about life and how it could turn into something you never knew existed.

On my way back, I looked at people with such love, as if I was appreciating their mere presence near me, as if I was thanking them for being such beautiful creatures next to me and I was constantly looking for ways to make it up to them.

For example, I brought an old couple two glasses of cold water... Just the look in their face gave me the goosebumps and made my day.


I wanna share the whole story better and more openly, but there are things I can't possibly reveal here, my fears and anxieties during that time, but, let's forget it.

I will be forever thankful for this opportunity, though there might be consequences, as it wasn't an entirely danger-free trip.
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Post by IrasMaldinista Fri 02 Sep 2011, 11:29

Ah, still from my trip I talked about in the last post...

There was this little 4-5 year old boy on the plane, whose amount of noise was just incredible.

I looked into his mom's eyes, sort of asked for permission, and suddenly grabbed him while he was running at top speed.
He got scared shitless, but didn't cry.

I offered him five types of gum candies, two types of chocolate, some orange juice and other stuff.

He looked at his mom's curious face, then accepted my offer.

He also started to talk and asked me if I have a kid.
"Three actually. I got two sons and two daughters." I replied.
"But, that would be four!?" He was obviously confused, but admittedly a smart kid.
"Well, the fourth is on his way in his mommy's belly." I was having fun lying.

"So, why do you look so young then?" He asked.
"Because I exercise a lot and I always laugh." Hell, I was laughing on the inside.
"My daddy laughs a lot and he ain't looking as young, and he has only one kid, me."

He had no clue I'm a kid too! It was nice.

I kept him busy enough for an hour and entertained him with a bunch of other jaw-dropping lies and stuff that I got in my bag, stuff I never thought would be of use when encountered with a bright little boy.

You wanna know the best part? He sat on my leg, put his head on my chest while playing angry birds on my cell phone, whispering his special mumbo jumbo, farted once and sudenly BAMMM! He was dead-asleep!!!!!!

I was strolling in the clouds for my achievement.
Boy, his daddy almost hugged me for it!


I don't know what to do without a kid now! I want one...
I'd make the best daddy in the history of human beings (Boooooooo)...
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Post by Forza Sat 03 Sep 2011, 05:23

IrasMaldinista wrote:Ah, still from my trip I talked about in the last post...

There was this little 4-5 year old boy on the plane, whose amount of noise was just incredible.

I looked into his mom's eyes, sort of asked for permission, and suddenly grabbed him while he was running at top speed.
He got scared shitless, but didn't cry.

I offered him five types of gum candies, two types of chocolate, some orange juice and other stuff.

He looked at his mom's curious face, then accepted my offer.

He also started to talk and asked me if I have a kid.
"Three actually. I got two sons and two daughters." I replied.
"But, that would be four!?" He was obviously confused, but admittedly a smart kid.
"Well, the fourth is on his way in his mommy's belly." I was having fun lying.

"So, why do you look so young then?" He asked.
"Because I exercise a lot and I always laugh." Hell, I was laughing on the inside.
"My daddy laughs a lot and he ain't looking as young, and he has only one kid, me."

He had no clue I'm a kid too! It was nice.

I kept him busy enough for an hour and entertained him with a bunch of other jaw-dropping lies and stuff that I got in my bag, stuff I never thought would be of use when encountered with a bright little boy.

You wanna know the best part? He sat on my leg, put his head on my chest while playing angry birds on my cell phone, whispering his special mumbo jumbo, farted once and sudenly BAMMM! He was dead-asleep!!!!!!

I was strolling in the clouds for my achievement.
Boy, his daddy almost hugged me for it!


I don't know what to do without a kid now! I want one...
I'd make the best daddy in the history of human beings (Boooooooo)...

hahahahahahaahaha Very Happy
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Post by dreamer Sat 03 Sep 2011, 09:51

Milanfan7 wrote:I went camping yesterday, met a girl over there and made out with her. Damn she was hot. It's a shame I didn't get the bitch's number.
Why do you cal her a bitch? Rolling Eyes
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Post by Ganso Sat 03 Sep 2011, 15:52

Off-Topic Garden Café - Page 13 Pato-cbf
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Post by IrasMaldinista Sat 03 Sep 2011, 22:27

One of today world's serious problems is prejudice against other religions and beliefs, and in no other case like Islam is it more obvious and bleak.

Islamophobia did exist before 9/11, but since that doomed day it has taken a leap in severity. Nowadays any woman with covered hair or any man with some overgrown beard is considered a potential threat, and it wouldn't matter what kind of a human being that person really is.

Does one rotten Orange mean every orange fruit in this world is rotten?

Could we deem millions of cars produced by Toyota useless because of one broke Toyota we saw yesterday down the road?


I wanna know: What caused it in the first place? Why is Islam (generally) the path poorest people in the world choose to follow?
And why is it, in absolute honesty and admittedly the most trouble-making, complicated religion there is?


Looking back at Islam's history, Muhammad's first followers were the poor, miserable, kicked-around ordinary people and slaves of Mecca, you could call them "the working class" of Mecca.

And why did Mecca's rich people stand against the religion, its prophet and its followers? Why did the more powerful of Meccan men tortured, killed and disrupted the lives of the newly converted muslims?

In all honesty, because it talked about Human dignity for both black and white, both rich and poor. It sounded too dreamy for the crushed black slave whose life was easily in the hands of his owner.

Muhammad told both parties that no matter where you are and what you have, you are human, and you have similar, equal rights. And we all leave here in one fashion, in cold bare bodies with nothing worldly for the other side.

Here I'm not advertising, I'm getting deeper in the matter.


1400 years later and we still see the unwritten rule is intact: Most poor people are Muslims.

Yes, there are multibillionaire Sheikhs around, but everybody knows that 99% of the money in this world is in the hands of 1% of population in earth, and I doubt muslims are any bigger a part than 10% of this 1%.


So, where I'm going with these stats? I'm saying, "Oppress the peaceful protester and they will hit you in no expected way, in extremely radicalized ways."

You could oppress a 5-year-old little boy and he will kick you in the shin, or scratch your face. Do this to a 40-year-old and he either punches or stabs or shoot you.


These poor bastards who blow their idiot asses up in public places in Iraq, Afghanistan and other troublesome countries (and sometimes great ones like USA), are direct products of centuries of hardship and being held down.

These schmucks think to themselves that with self-explosion they will A. give away a statement and voice the protest and potential strength of the poor, B. threaten the superpowers that bigger disasters are to come and C. maybe put themselves out of the misery of living in such cruel mean world.

Europe and America didn't get to find their governments and people in such an almost-perfect harmony and functionality, they fought battle after battle, war after war and they didn't hesitate before sacrificing men and women of their colonies to provide their own people with such well-fare, respect and freedom.

I believe it will take another century or two for African, central-Asian, Middle-eastern and other pathetic areas' people to reach an acceptable level of democracy and well-fare, because every good thing takes time to set in.

In Persian we say, "What's brought by the wind, shall be taken by the wind."

Britain took at least 600 years of constant chaos, war, treason and dissatisfaction to get here... we are well behind.
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Post by dreamer Sat 03 Sep 2011, 23:08

My friend Abbas do yourself a favour about religions and please study Charles Darwin (< click) instead of the Coran, Bible or whatever other fairytales!
Develop your brain and let nobody held you down, because that's the only reason smart people who lived long time a go, created religions!

Religions are no more than high-cost "life-insurancecompanies" who doesnt have to pay-of at the end, because death people can't complain!

And last but not least... "Why should you believe when you can messure?" :coffee:

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Post by milanfan7 Mon 05 Sep 2011, 03:19

dreamer wrote:
Milanfan7 wrote:I went camping yesterday, met a girl over there and made out with her. Damn she was hot. It's a shame I didn't get the bitch's number.
Why do you cal her a bitch? Rolling Eyes
Making out with a guy you don't know is bitchy,especially here in Lebanon.
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Post by arabprince Mon 05 Sep 2011, 04:00

dreamer wrote:My friend Abbas do yourself a favour about religions and please study Charles Darwin (< click) instead of the Coran, Bible or whatever other fairytales!
Develop your brain and let nobody held you down, because that's the only reason smart people who lived long time a go, created religions!

Religions are no more than high-cost "life-insurancecompanies" who doesnt have to pay-of at the end, because death people can't complain!

And last but not least... "Why should you believe when you can messure?" :coffee:


You label religions as life-insurance companies" when in fact religion gives people a very clear purpose to life. One of the problems with atheism is that it gives you no purpose. If truly we have come to exist by chance, and once we die nothing happens, then what is the point of it all? Thus, it is often said "your purpose is to live and enjoy life". Fair enough, but it is shallow.

Each and every belief/way of life has its criticisms. Truth of the matter is, no one can tell us what is right and what is wrong, because no one has died and was able to tell others about the experience. Any and every lifestyle should be accepted if it isn't detrimental. I for one believe in religion because it makes sense to me. It is funny because religious people believe atheists are blind of the truth, whilst atheists believe religious people are blind of the truth. It seems like we are all blind, yet none of us are blind.
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Post by PinePHresh Mon 05 Sep 2011, 04:55

arabprince wrote:
You label religions as life-insurance companies" when in fact religion gives people a very clear purpose to life. One of the problems with atheism is that it gives you no purpose. If truly we have come to exist by chance, and once we die nothing happens, then what is the point of it all? Thus, it is often said "your purpose is to live and enjoy life". Fair enough, but it is shallow.

absolutely stupid. Whether or not you see purpose in it has no bearing on whether or not it is true. Does there have to be a point to it all? Who said there does? You should find your own purpose in life and not just believe what your parents and preachers tell you.

Atheism answers one question: do gods exist? After that there is no dogma, no blind faith, nobody telling you that you're natural urges are evil, no bigotry and intolerance. It's sad how religions catch children when they're too young to know better. I see sheeple walking around blindly following whatever their religions tell them. They say you must believe in the absence of evidence. They say their god will send you hell to burn for eternity if you do not follow him... but he loves you. They tell you sex is an impure thing even though it's natural and a part of the animal kingdom. They say homosexuals are disgusting individuals who threaten society's moral values. What an incredibly hateful way to think.

And the churches aren't exactly 'saintly' themselves. They are governed by men. Men are fallible. There was a pedophile priest in my neighborhood's church. He had been there for less than a year before he was accused of molestation. Then we never heard from the guy again. You know what happened? The church had been moving him around to different parishes in the region. Each time one of his victims came out, they shipped the priest off again. These 'houses of god' are not positive forces in our society. There is no benefit to society that religion can achieve that can not also be achieved in a different, secular way.

If you need a god to find purpose in your life then I would say the rest of your life must not be very exciting or you can't think objectively for yourself.

This life is the only life that we know exists. Why not enjoy it?
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Post by arabprince Mon 05 Sep 2011, 06:09

PinePHresh wrote:
arabprince wrote:
You label religions as life-insurance companies" when in fact religion gives people a very clear purpose to life. One of the problems with atheism is that it gives you no purpose. If truly we have come to exist by chance, and once we die nothing happens, then what is the point of it all? Thus, it is often said "your purpose is to live and enjoy life". Fair enough, but it is shallow.

absolutely stupid. Whether or not you see purpose in it has no bearing on whether or not it is true. Does there have to be a point to it all? Who said there does? You should find your own purpose in life and not just believe what your parents and preachers tell you.

Atheism answers one question: do gods exist? After that there is no dogma, no blind faith, nobody telling you that you're natural urges are evil, no bigotry and intolerance. It's sad how religions catch children when they're too young to know better. I see sheeple walking around blindly following whatever their religions tell them. They say you must believe in the absence of evidence. They say their god will send you hell to burn for eternity if you do not follow him... but he loves you. They tell you sex is an impure thing even though it's natural and a part of the animal kingdom. They say homosexuals are disgusting individuals who threaten society's moral values. What an incredibly hateful way to think.

And the churches aren't exactly 'saintly' themselves. They are governed by men. Men are fallible. There was a pedophile priest in my neighborhood's church. He had been there for less than a year before he was accused of molestation. Then we never heard from the guy again. You know what happened? The church had been moving him around to different parishes in the region. Each time one of his victims came out, they shipped the priest off again. These 'houses of god' are not positive forces in our society. There is no benefit to society that religion can achieve that can not also be achieved in a different, secular way.

If you need a god to find purpose in your life then I would say the rest of your life must not be very exciting or you can't think objectively for yourself.

This life is the only life that we know exists. Why not enjoy it?

No need for name calling friend we are merely discussing. Indeed whether or not you see purpose in it does not dictate if it is right or not, I never made such a claim. I was critiquing atheism as the previous poster critiqued religion.

I agree men are fallible and it seems your criticisms of religion stem from their adherents. A philosophy shouldn't be judged by the merits of the people that claim to follow it. I too agree that many people follow religion blindly, because that is what they were brought up to believe, but you cannot make the claim that the same isn't true for many atheists. Atheism has gained momentum in the last few decades and many people follow it blindly as well.

In conclusion there is no point in us pointing out flaws in the others' beliefs since we will be here forever.
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Post by PinePHresh Mon 05 Sep 2011, 06:59

First off it was not name calling. I attack ideas, not people.

how exactly do people 'blindly follow' atheism? There is no dogma. It answers one question only and does not say anything else about the world. It's not a religion. Atheism is the rejection of the idea that gods exist. If I were to see observable, definitive proof of a god, I would change my views.

'It seems your criticisms of religion stem from it's adherents'. No I have many criticisms of religion, specifically its rash assertions, how it claims to be the absolute truth of the universe, how it's not founded on observable evidence. It just so happens that the fundamentalists tend to be delusional. After all I wrote you really think I wouldn't understand the ad hominem fallacy?

I don't know a single atheist who was indoctrinated by their parents. Most atheists are former believers who began to objectively examine their beliefs. Others who come from non-religious homes are not drilled in schools and told constantly by their parents 'there is no god.' They are simply not taught to follow a particular religion, so they are able to make their own decisions about it when they grow up and become smarter.

'In conclusion there is no point in us pointing out flaws in the others' beliefs since we will be here forever.' - if I don't challenge your beliefs and you don't challenge your own beliefs then nobody else will. I like to believe things that are true and disbelieve things that are false. We can examine our own beliefs through observation, experimentation and argumentation. You can either continue to not challenge your own beliefs and be safe and secure in your own mind or you can challenge yourself and respond. When someone challenges a particular view I hold, I explore the subject with that person, not shy away. It's good that in modern society we are allowed to talk openly about such things.

Respond if you want to actually examine this and argue for what you believe. I promise not to be disrespectful. Ignore me if you are content to never question.

If you believe you are correct, then you should have no trouble defending your position. We should constantly ask ourselves what it is we believe and why. It is how man's ideas progress. If there were no questioning, we'd still be in the stone age.

Actually I'm about to be a jerk and attack people: the problem with lots of religious folk is that when you call them out on something silly about their religion, they shut down and simply won't listen/respond adequately, often deflecting or redirecting the interaction. Far too many are content to live in their little world of delusions and not ask themselves if their beliefs are really justified.
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Post by dreamer Mon 05 Sep 2011, 10:16

arabprince wrote: In conclusion there is no point in us pointing out flaws in the others' beliefs since we will be here forever.

It's a comforting idea that we "in person" are mortal like every other creature on this planet!
The only way we live forever is like all those other creatures... by our children and their children and so on! :idea:

'Tell me the reason that we want proof for the smallest things that happens in life, and at the same time we should believe as grown up "Alladin's lamp stories" told by AliBaba! Very Happy

Someone is telling here proudly the following;
Milanfan7 wrote:
dreamer wrote:
Milanfan7 wrote:I went camping yesterday, met a girl over there and made out with her. Damn she was hot. It's a shame I didn't get the bitch's number.
Why do you cal her a bitch? Rolling Eyes
Making out with a guy you don't know is bitchy,especially here in Lebanon.
We say; "You need two to tango" He is proud on himself and calling her a bitch!
That's Islam 2011 "holding people down and specially women!" and Lebanon is a moderate place, because in Teheran they come with a m3 stones and people enough to find overthere to throw them at her!
Discusting!
Religions are fighting, killing and deviding on the question who has the thruth in his books, for over 2000 years now... for me; enough is enough, let's try it 2000 years without religions!
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Post by dreamer Mon 05 Sep 2011, 10:58

arabprince wrote:You label religions as life-insurance companies" when in fact religion gives people a very clear purpose to life. One of the problems with atheism is that it gives you no purpose. If truly we have come to exist by chance, and once we die nothing happens, then what is the point of it all? Thus, it is often said "your purpose is to live and enjoy life". Fair enough, but it is shallow.
Promising men 40 virgins after they killed themselves in the name of Allah... is not shallow? Shocked

Why should there be a point and a purpose to this all... to justify the slavery by the selfproclaimed God's in many countries?

Do yourself a favour and study next to the Coran, the works of Charles Darwin...:coffee:

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Post by Forza Mon 05 Sep 2011, 11:59

Religion and Darwinian principles are not necessarily in conflict.
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Post by dreamer Mon 05 Sep 2011, 12:14

Forza Rossoneri wrote:Religion and Darwinian principles are not necessarily in conflict.
They are... when you believe the bible, coran, thora ao. let's call them "western religions" who write that this world does not excist longer than a 5.000 years!
Maybe a printing mistake? :arrow: Very Happy
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Post by dostoevsky Mon 05 Sep 2011, 12:59

dreamer wrote:
Forza Rossoneri wrote:Religion and Darwinian principles are not necessarily in conflict.
They are... when you believe the bible, coran, thora ao. let's call them "western religions" who write that this world does not excist longer than a 5.000 years!
Maybe a printing mistake? :arrow: Very Happy

Such an idea is certainly not what is implied.
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Post by milanfan7 Mon 05 Sep 2011, 13:18

"That's Islam 2011 "holding people down and specially women!" and Lebanon is a moderate place, because in Teheran they come with a m3 stones and people enough to find overthere to throw them at her!"
She is Christian,and I'm agnostic.
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Post by Arquitecto Mon 05 Sep 2011, 14:02

It saddens me I have to come to this topic again.

Being a religious Roman Catholic myself, in my younger days, I used to frown upon Islam as within those days, I was brainwashed by the ignorance of the media and the ignorant themselves upon believing the fallacious "facts" they bring upon from the Quran.

I'll make it short. Half the stuff you hear on the media (especially Western) about Islam and its holy book is absolutely fallacious and purely out of context.

How did I learn upon this? In my University studies, I came upon the oppurtunity to study the religion and believe me, all my earlier ignorance was washed away.

Heres the thing, it is the corrupt Muslims of today that ruin the name of Islam by their manipulation of whats said in the Quran as they blow things completely out of proportion. This is not to say there are not great muslims as my estimation is 95% of muslims are the ones who truly follow the book (although with a laidback approach at times) and the 5% are the bad apples whose actions are the ones that are given the spotlight.

Just because the followers of the religion are not all pure, does that mean the religion is not pure and righteous?

My advice to the ones who oppose of Islam here;

-I suggest you read the english translation of the Quran

-There is a man by the name of Zakir Naik, and believe me, he has taken opposition by the balls. Intellectually. Do.watch.his.lectures.

By following the points above, I grew to have immense respect for a religion that I do not even follow.

Bring up any point to counteract Islam or Roman Catholism; I will gladly respond.

"Promising men 40 virgins after they killed themselves in the name of Allah."

Never was said in the Quran is this is one of the prime examples of the fallacy targeted towards the religion.

Remember: "A small drop of misconception can blow things completely out of proportion."



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Post by IrasMaldinista Mon 05 Sep 2011, 14:29

I wanna reiterate that by my last post in this thread I was trying to explain some historical FACTS, not my personal, prejudiced take on things.

Islam 2011 is a funny thing, because there are at least 50 branches in circulation that claim to be the real version.

Dreamer, answer me: Why should I, the 21-year-old Iranian freedom-seeker who got beaten up by my extremist muslim compatriots in peaceful demonstrations be compared to hungry wolves like Bin Laden and Khamenei?

Why should we generalize and expand tiny details to a giant whole to prove our point?

Are we all hyenas who eagerly throw rocks at girls who have sex with anybody else than their husband? Or boys with anybody else than their wives?

Sir, I've had sex with a girl and I do not believe my girl and I should be stoned! And I'm more or less a Muslim.


Hitler was a German, is Michael Ballack potentially a Holocaust enthusiast?

Let's learn not to consider every man of the same belief, of the same nature.


Wanna know what I firmly believe?

I believe being good to others and being a productive, useful, helpful man is the sum of everything that is good in this world, no matter who you worship or which religion you practice.

For every good muslim there's a good Christian, and for every bad muslim there's a bad Christian. That goes to all the religions or beliefs on the face of earth.


In France, we had this couple next door who were raising 5 orphans. These 5 all were 13 years old, and the couple were a bit old.

My dad, who at first didn't know the story, asked them about their family. The French ATHEIST guy said, "These five kids are the third generation of kids that we raise. At first our very own children turned 18 and left us, and we brought three toddlers in our home. Once they turned 18 and headed for Uni, work or whatever, we brought another 5 whom you currently see..."

I haven't seen any Muslim, Christian or anybody else of whatever religion who's done such an unbelievable thing, I've grown up knowing that I am not the best (not even close), WE are not the best and all in all, there is no best way. You choose how you live, not your religion.

If Islam helps you become a better person, a more peaceful, complete human, then convert to it. Simple as that.

But if the type of Muslim you wanna be, is one of those suicide bombers, then God damn you, I hate you and I wish you get buried alive!

Same with all the other beliefs...


Phewww...




P.S. One little thing I always wanted to say about the conditions that make Stoning eligible (or obligatory) for men and women in Islam.
To stone a girl and/or a boy who's committed non-marital sex, you absolutely gotta have these two conditions in place:

1. Both the woman and the man involved in the said sexual intercourse should confess i.e. orally utter they have done it for FOUR times (I have done it. I have done it. I have done it. I have done it.), with no pressure and completely by their own choice.

2. AT LEAST four true muslims (who knows who's a true one?) have to testify they have actually witnessed the two during their intercourse by their own eyes.


Now somebody who considers Stoning a regular thing in Iran or wherever the hell else, tell me: Is it in any damn way possible to stone anybody at all? I tell you: NO. It's pure impossible.

I guess only porn stars are candidates for being stoned and they are mostly in "Land of the free, home of the brave" and thus safe as it gets. So, the chances of someone qualifying for stoning is in 99.9% of cases impossible.

Just FYI.
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Post by arabprince Mon 05 Sep 2011, 15:03

@PinePhresh, Perhaps you have not met any atheists indoctrinated by their parents but I have met plenty of atheists that are indoctrinated by media. Honestly, at least here in the west, atheism is seen as "cool" and a lot of people like to follow. I'm fine with that, everyone chooses their own path but when I try and talk to them about it most of them say they have never explored other avenues (ie religion). They just feel "well no proof so clearly is religion is wrong" they don't both trying to come up with "what is right".

It is quite noble of you to say we should discuss our beliefs, and in that post you are trying to attack to attack my pride; calling me out. I don't need to prove to you that I am not afraid of debate. We are living int he internet age, I have had countless debates on this issue as I'm sure you've had. And I 'm quite certain that we both feel that a person on a soccer forum is not going to change our mind. And honestly I don't want to enter this discussion with you because I don't frequent the off-topic thread and I'm sure once I don't respond you will consider yourself a victor.

@dreamerr, like I said, don't judge a religion based on the merits of its followers (which it turns out, he isn't even a follower). Also, where in the Quran does it say the Earth was created 5000 years ago? I understand this may be what you have been told, but I can assure you that this is inaccurate.
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