Re: Is Messi already best player of UCL-era?

by Albiceleste Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:05 pm

Doc wrote:
Lionel Messi wrote:
Doc wrote:
free_cat wrote:This forum is on the downhill very fast. How can this OP neg repped? Ridiculous.

Messi is the best attacker since the CL era started.

I'm not sure if it's the topic he got negged for or him personally but the forum is doing fine. Maybe some people shouldn't be sensitive and relax a bit...
You get neg repped if you bring up anything about Barcelona or anything against Madrid.

That is a slightly narrow way of looking at it. It's not because one brings up Barca or against Madrid (although there is truth to what you say) but one must take into consideration the men who makes the thread. Jjopsi is a troll and quite possibly a good one. He has said several outlandish things about Madrid players that may not be considered pleasant so whatever he makes in the future would probably be deemed "troll" even though this thread certainly isn't.

Anyway, the forum is fine. Posters need to be less sensitive about matters...

Good point, but I believe there was an actual discussion to be had here and maybe people were to quick to assume it was troll thread.

by Lord Awesome Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:08 pm

Don't agree with this yet. I'm sure he will become that one day, though.

He's got the stuff to make it happen.

by BeautifulGame Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:37 pm

I think the thread would be more appropriate if the title is changed to Best attacker in CL era rather than Best player in CL era.

by The BoyWonder Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:33 pm

Lionel Messi wrote:
The BoyWonder wrote:jiopsi stp scking messi's midget dck so mch...
You create 15 threads a day about pointless crap, you have no right to tell anyone what to do, don't even post in a thread if you're going to post garbage like this.

thank you, come again. :coffee:

by Toffer Harley Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:43 pm

not yet, but he will be.

by StevieRayVaughan Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:11 pm

Raul is Mr. Champions League. If people thought ohh he scored because he only played for Real, then look at last year he was amaZing for Schalke. I mean screw his goals, that guy was a beast running after every ball, creating chances, leading the team yet again. No wonder the Schalke fans love him already. Raul is defintalely the best "attacker" of the UCL ERA. However, since you said "best player" then it is up for debate. But i still think Raul edges Messi as of now, but Messi can get to it in the long term (and damn he still has a long time). Unless, he "pulls" a Ronaldihno.

by S32TABLANCA Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:16 pm

No, Messi is not the greatest player or attacker since the UCL started, but he probably will be eventually. I mean, (unfortunately Wink

) he will probably break Raul's record unless he burns out early, then we will probably be able to say he was the best since... when was it, 94? Too early for me, anyhow.

by Kev Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:19 am

I know I am going to get 1000000 negative votes for what I am going to say, but I don't care.

Barcelona is more of a champions team than a team of champions. The team's strength as a whole is vastly superior to the sum of the strengths of each individual component. The players in this team have been raised in the same city, same academy and with the same people for many, many years.

Due to Barcelona's obvious recent success, it is tempting for people to think that Xavi is the best CM of all time, Messi is the greatest attacker of all time, Alves is the best right back of all time etc.

That form of thinking, IMO, is relatively simplistic. As I said previously, the sum of the strength of the players in Barcelona is vastly inferior to the team's strength overall, which means that it is easy for people to overestimate the individual strengths.

The ultimate point for this post is to suggest that by saying Messi is the best player in the UCL era, people are not doing justice to the Barcelona squad. If Barcelona is a team carried by Messi, I will quickly retract my statements. But since I believe (and I hope most people believe) that this is not the reality, Messi should not be deemed the best player of the UCL era. Why should Messi be regarded as the best while Xavi shouldn't? Why shouldn't Iniesta be regarded as the best?

That's why Messi must be extremely successful at another club in order to firmly cement his place as the best player in the UCL era.

by Mamad Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:25 am

Barcelona is a huge boost for Messi. anyway it's early to say.....

by billy_gr Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:34 am

I don’t mind all this posts saying Messi is “enhanced” when playing for Barca.
Teams >> Players anyway.

All I hope is that people who write these things also understand the importance of Guardiola as a coach.

by M99 Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:44 pm

He can be if he manages to keep his level. As of right now, he is yet to surpass Maldini, Raul, Seedorf.

by Albiceleste Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:06 pm

Why can't Messi be the best attacker even if it is Barca that helps him be that?

3 time consecutive top scorer of the champion's league, tied for most goals scored in a single champion's league ever.

by emassy Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:52 am

He is way too young. Likes of inzaghi,raul,vanistelrooy e.t.c still shone in the UCL at their later age. So,keep dreaming.

by CBarca Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:07 am

I think so. Too late(time wise) to explain why

But I still tremble at the .74 ratio RVN posted. damn he's good. Always liked him, even as a barca supporter.

by Kev Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:45 am

Kevacious wrote:I know I am going to get 1000000 negative votes for what I am going to say, but I don't care.

Barcelona is more of a champions team than a team of champions. The team's strength as a whole is vastly superior to the sum of the strengths of each individual component. The players in this team have been raised in the same city, same academy and with the same people for many, many years.

Due to Barcelona's obvious recent success, it is tempting for people to think that Xavi is the best CM of all time, Messi is the greatest attacker of all time, Alves is the best right back of all time etc.

That form of thinking, IMO, is relatively simplistic. As I said previously, the sum of the strength of the players in Barcelona is vastly inferior to the team's strength overall, which means that it is easy for people to overestimate the individual strengths.

The ultimate point for this post is to suggest that by saying Messi is the best player in the UCL era, people are not doing justice to the Barcelona squad. If Barcelona is a team carried by Messi, I will quickly retract my statements. But since I believe (and I hope most people believe) that this is not the reality, Messi should not be deemed the best player of the UCL era. Why should Messi be regarded as the best while Xavi shouldn't? Why shouldn't Iniesta be regarded as the best?

That's why Messi must be extremely successful at another club in order to firmly cement his place as the best player in the UCL era.

Haha, my prediction stands correct. It seems some fanbois like Messi more than Barcelona/ Argentina. Whatever happened to football being a team sport? It's not like I'm attacking Barcelona.... In fact, I'm pretty sure when I said "champions team", I'm praising them.

Anyway, let's see how many neg reps I can get Very Happy

.

by barca 2011 Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:54 am

Kevacious wrote:
Kevacious wrote:I know I am going to get 1000000 negative votes for what I am going to say, but I don't care.

Barcelona is more of a champions team than a team of champions. The team's strength as a whole is vastly superior to the sum of the strengths of each individual component. The players in this team have been raised in the same city, same academy and with the same people for many, many years.

Due to Barcelona's obvious recent success, it is tempting for people to think that Xavi is the best CM of all time, Messi is the greatest attacker of all time, Alves is the best right back of all time etc.

That form of thinking, IMO, is relatively simplistic. As I said previously, the sum of the strength of the players in Barcelona is vastly inferior to the team's strength overall, which means that it is easy for people to overestimate the individual strengths.

The ultimate point for this post is to suggest that by saying Messi is the best player in the UCL era, people are not doing justice to the Barcelona squad. If Barcelona is a team carried by Messi, I will quickly retract my statements. But since I believe (and I hope most people believe) that this is not the reality, Messi should not be deemed the best player of the UCL era. Why should Messi be regarded as the best while Xavi shouldn't? Why shouldn't Iniesta be regarded as the best?

That's why Messi must be extremely successful at another club in order to firmly cement his place as the best player in the UCL era.

Haha, my prediction stands correct. It seems some fanbois like Messi more than Barcelona/ Argentina. Whatever happened to football being a team sport? It's not like I'm attacking Barcelona.... In fact, I'm pretty sure when I said "champions team", I'm praising them.

Anyway, let's see how many neg reps I can get .

lol, your "point"? You prove nothing. You're just looking for a way to discredit the best team ATM, who happen to have the best player, while trying to sound like youre not trolling.

by Kev Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:42 pm

barca 2011 wrote:
Kevacious wrote:
Kevacious wrote:I know I am going to get 1000000 negative votes for what I am going to say, but I don't care.

Barcelona is more of a champions team than a team of champions. The team's strength as a whole is vastly superior to the sum of the strengths of each individual component. The players in this team have been raised in the same city, same academy and with the same people for many, many years.

Due to Barcelona's obvious recent success, it is tempting for people to think that Xavi is the best CM of all time, Messi is the greatest attacker of all time, Alves is the best right back of all time etc.

That form of thinking, IMO, is relatively simplistic. As I said previously, the sum of the strength of the players in Barcelona is vastly inferior to the team's strength overall, which means that it is easy for people to overestimate the individual strengths.

The ultimate point for this post is to suggest that by saying Messi is the best player in the UCL era, people are not doing justice to the Barcelona squad. If Barcelona is a team carried by Messi, I will quickly retract my statements. But since I believe (and I hope most people believe) that this is not the reality, Messi should not be deemed the best player of the UCL era. Why should Messi be regarded as the best while Xavi shouldn't? Why shouldn't Iniesta be regarded as the best?

That's why Messi must be extremely successful at another club in order to firmly cement his place as the best player in the UCL era.

Haha, my prediction stands correct. It seems some fanbois like Messi more than Barcelona/ Argentina. Whatever happened to football being a team sport? It's not like I'm attacking Barcelona.... In fact, I'm pretty sure when I said "champions team", I'm praising them.

Anyway, let's see how many neg reps I can get .
lol, your "point"? You prove nothing. You're just looking for a way to discredit the best team ATM, who happen to have the best player, while trying to sound like youre not trolling.

Yep. You hit the jackpot. That's exactly what I was trying to do.

/sarcasm.

Seriously though dude, did you read my post?

Alves + Xavi + Valdes + Puyol + Pique + Abidal + Busquets + Iniesta + Messi + Villa + Pedro < F.C. Barcelona

Barcelona's success comes from a TEAM EFFORT, not a collection of individual efforts.

Just because the team's successful (due to a TEAM EFFORT) doesn't mean that every player on the team is suddenly godly. It's possible to have a collection good players that make a great team.

Well, that sums up my pointless troll post.

by Kev Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:45 pm

Kevacious wrote:
barca 2011 wrote:
Kevacious wrote:
Kevacious wrote:I know I am going to get 1000000 negative votes for what I am going to say, but I don't care.

Barcelona is more of a champions team than a team of champions. The team's strength as a whole is vastly superior to the sum of the strengths of each individual component. The players in this team have been raised in the same city, same academy and with the same people for many, many years.

Due to Barcelona's obvious recent success, it is tempting for people to think that Xavi is the best CM of all time, Messi is the greatest attacker of all time, Alves is the best right back of all time etc.

That form of thinking, IMO, is relatively simplistic. As I said previously, the sum of the strength of the players in Barcelona is vastly inferior to the team's strength overall, which means that it is easy for people to overestimate the individual strengths.

The ultimate point for this post is to suggest that by saying Messi is the best player in the UCL era, people are not doing justice to the Barcelona squad. If Barcelona is a team carried by Messi, I will quickly retract my statements. But since I believe (and I hope most people believe) that this is not the reality, Messi should not be deemed the best player of the UCL era. Why should Messi be regarded as the best while Xavi shouldn't? Why shouldn't Iniesta be regarded as the best?

That's why Messi must be extremely successful at another club in order to firmly cement his place as the best player in the UCL era.

Haha, my prediction stands correct. It seems some fanbois like Messi more than Barcelona/ Argentina. Whatever happened to football being a team sport? It's not like I'm attacking Barcelona.... In fact, I'm pretty sure when I said "champions team", I'm praising them.

Anyway, let's see how many neg reps I can get .
lol, your "point"? You prove nothing. You're just looking for a way to discredit the best team ATM, who happen to have the best player, while trying to sound like youre not trolling.

Yep. You hit the jackpot. That's exactly what I was trying to do.

/sarcasm.

Seriously though dude, did you read my post?

Alves + Xavi + Valdes + Puyol + Pique + Abidal + Busquets + Iniesta + Messi + Villa + Pedro < F.C. Barcelona

Barcelona's success comes from a TEAM EFFORT, not a collection of individual efforts.

Just because the team's successful (due to a TEAM EFFORT) doesn't mean that every player on the team is suddenly godly. It's possible to have a collection good players that make a great team. Barcelona's players have become superstars because of their team effort. It's not vice versa. Barcelona F.C. did not become a superstar team because of individual efforts.

Well, that sums up my supposed pointless troll post.

by kiranr Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:49 pm

Kevacious wrote:

Yep. You hit the jackpot. That's exactly what I was trying to do.

/sarcasm.

Seriously though dude, did you read my post?

Alves + Xavi + Valdes + Puyol + Pique + Abidal + Busquets + Iniesta + Messi + Villa + Pedro < F.C. Barcelona

Barcelona's success comes from a TEAM EFFORT, not a collection of individual efforts.

Just because the team's successful (due to a TEAM EFFORT) doesn't mean that every player on the team is suddenly godly. It's possible to have a collection good players that make a great team.

Well, that sums up my pointless troll post.

Are you saying that Xavi or Iniesta are not one of the best midfielders ever? or Messi is not one of the best attackers ever?

Have there been teams in the past which have achieved consistent success without having players that were one of the best in their positions?

by the xcx Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:24 pm

kiranr wrote:
Kevacious wrote:

Yep. You hit the jackpot. That's exactly what I was trying to do.

/sarcasm.

Seriously though dude, did you read my post?

Alves + Xavi + Valdes + Puyol + Pique + Abidal + Busquets + Iniesta + Messi + Villa + Pedro < F.C. Barcelona

Barcelona's success comes from a TEAM EFFORT, not a collection of individual efforts.

Just because the team's successful (due to a TEAM EFFORT) doesn't mean that every player on the team is suddenly godly. It's possible to have a collection good players that make a great team.

Well, that sums up my pointless troll post.

Are you saying that Xavi or Iniesta are not one of the best midfielders ever? or Messi is not one of the best attackers ever?

Have there been teams in the past which have achieved consistent success without having players that were one of the best in their positions?

Nope they arent imo.

by kiranr Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:38 pm

Why dont you answer my second question too?

by Lord Awesome Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:39 pm

kiranr wrote:
Are you saying that Xavi or Iniesta are not one of the best midfielders ever? or Messi is not one of the best attackers ever?

I agree with what Kevacious says that Barca's Chemistry makes them look better than they really are. But I also believe that players like Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Messi are at the level as one of the all time greats.

I'm also intrested in Kevacious opinion, though.