An era is officially over

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Post by Davis Thu Jul 06, 2023 5:16 am

Good question. I'd say Messi and Ronaldo are definitely number 1 and 2 respectively. As for 3rd... I'd say Modric. He's still amazing at 37, and has pretty much led Croatia to a World Cup final, 3rd place play-off win, and a Nations League semi-final. Modric still manages to be a superb dribbler, passer, and crosser after all thsse years.

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Post by futbol_bill Thu Jul 06, 2023 6:51 am

I agree with above that it is either Iniesta or Modric. I lean towards Iniesta. Both have multiple achievements with both club and NT. I also agree both of them are ahead of Xavi! I don’t think Suarez nor Ibra come anywhere close in terms of impact, joy to watch, etc to those three.
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Post by futbol_bill Thu Jul 06, 2023 9:19 am

Question, Where Ibra or Suarez ever a finalist (Final three) for Balon D’or? I know Iniesta and Modric were and I think Xavi as well!

I looked it up, Xavi was 3rd three years in a row. Iniesta was 2nd in 2010 and third in 2012.modric won it, in the only year he was a finalist in 2018.

For Ibra and Suarez - NADA!!,!

And don’t be confused with Luis Suarez, the Spaniard who played for Barcelona in another era having won one and was second twice!!
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Post by El Gunner Thu Jul 06, 2023 10:00 am

The Balon Dor isn't the be all and end all for two reasons,
1) we all know how sketchy and inconsistent it can be sometimes in its criteria and decisions... like Sneijder didn't even get a top 3 in 2010
2) you can have one insane season where you make it, but then fall off considerably, or injury derails your career

Suarez's case is that he produced a level of number 9 striking activity from 2013 to 2018 that was last topped only by Ronaldo Nazario's peak. His performance level, efficiciency and goalscoring artistry was so high that it's one of those things that can't be explained by stats only with your eyes. And yet still he also had the stats backing him up... He has the 3rd most assists behind Messi and Thomas Muller in modern football history, even more impressive when we consider his ultimate peak wasn't that long, and of course he also has more than 500 goals only behind Messi, Ronaldo and Lewandowski
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Post by futbol_bill Thu Jul 06, 2023 10:02 am

Meh
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Post by Myesyats Thu Jul 06, 2023 10:31 am

Modrić had a few more successful CL campaigns but Iniesta won two trebles and the WC

Barca's squad-building failures after Pep left have wasted Iniesta's last prime years.

I think they are comparable but I'd take prime Iniesta. Thats down to technicalities though. As they say, fine margins..
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Post by futbol_bill Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:17 pm

Myesyats wrote:Modrić had a few more successful CL campaigns but Iniesta won two trebles and the WC

Barca's squad-building failures after Pep left have wasted Iniesta's last prime years.

I think they are comparable but I'd take prime Iniesta. Thats down to technicalities though. As they say, fine margins..


For once I agree with you. To me, i think it is extremely thin margin between Iniesta, Modric and Xavi.

It’s people trying to push the biter Suarez into the top of this era. I think they must be confused with his namesake Luis Suarez, the Spaniard who also played for Barca. The Spaniard was a much better players, but is from another era. IMO, top 7, in no particular order, of that era were Pele, Di Stefano, Cruff, Beckenbauer, Gento, Puskas, Suarez
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Post by El Gunner Thu Jul 06, 2023 3:32 pm

yea, Iniesta at his best >>> Modric at his best

Bill, we get it, you don't like Suarez, it's okay, move on Thumbs up
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Post by sportsczy Thu Jul 06, 2023 5:04 pm

Vibe wrote:Interesting question. Obviously Ronaldo is a lock for #1 and Messi for #2, but 3rd is wide open for discussion.

Personally though, I think you can't look past Iniesta.

In terms of individual talent and performance, Ibra without a doubt.   Didn't win CL but he won the league like 15 years in a row or something from Dutch League to Serie A to La Liga to Serie A again and then Ligue 1.  Other than Barca, he was the main guy too on all of those.  

In terms of CL and NT team achievement and being the alpha of those teams, hard to say... Iniesta was the best player on Barca for 2-3 years and for a long time with Spain so him of course and without a doubt.   Benzema for his role at Real Madrid the past 3-4 years.   Neuer was the best goalkeeper of the era and Germany won WC.   Modric is right there with Iniesta although not winning WC puts him a half step behind.   Robben maybe?  Lahm?  Vidic as the best defender? Kante as best DM?
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Post by Harmonica Fri Jul 07, 2023 12:24 am

El Gunner wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWRj89Jw-m4

so have we actually answered this question?

If we are talking pound for pound peak performance, i believe it's Suarez. If we are talking unique skill level it's Iniesta. But perhaps he and Xavi being on the same club and national team at the same time makes them cancel each other out a bit too much. But if we also factor in longevity and how relevant he has made Croatia, it has to be Modric, right?
I always gringe at that kind of videos, when it starts away with kissing the biggest fanbase. Cronaldo isn't on Messi's level, and the question shouldn't be who's the third best player, but rather who's the second best player of this era. I would probably take Neymar before Cronaldo and this backs it up:

An era is officially over - Page 2 BqfMagB

The difference between Messi and Cronaldo has been much bigger than Cronaldo and multiple different players.
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Post by El Gunner Fri Jul 07, 2023 1:17 am

You can't just base these things off WhoScored ratings - overall impact on and off the field, longevity, attitude, discipline, individual and team accolades... all these things matter. Look at your list, Mbappe has barely been in the game for half as long as Neymar and he almost already has equaled his games tally. Pathetic from Neymar.

Neymar was never going to become a GOAT because he lacked the attitude and discipline from the start.
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Post by BarcaLearning Fri Jul 07, 2023 7:07 am

Basically Neymar should have been... he ruined his career when he left Barca Razz As the others has said, bar Messi n CR, the rest of the players are actual normal human beings n therefore can only rule or dominate for so much for so long, prolly a few years max at their peak level, so I guess there will never be a clear cut 3rd best of this era.
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Post by FennecFox7 Fri Jul 07, 2023 6:40 pm

For me, Iniesta is firmly third. Reminded of me of zizou with his play style, he was a midfield mastero and won basically everything (100% robbed of a ballon d’or in 2010, xavi had a good shout too)
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Post by Blue Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:24 am

I can't understand putting Iniesta and Modric over Xavi. Imo Xavi is the most influential midfielder of his generation.

Outside of dribbling, Xavi is clear of Iniesta in every department.
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Post by Pedram Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:35 am

Blue wrote:I can't understand putting Iniesta and Modric over Xavi. Imo Xavi is the most influential midfielder of his generation.



It's understandable if some people find Mr Sideway Passes boring, Xavi is a master at what he does which is controlling the flow of the game but in term of overall pure enjoyment i'd put Ibra or even Suarez above him.
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Post by titosantill Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:38 am

Blue wrote:I can't understand putting Iniesta and Modric over Xavi. Imo Xavi is the most influential midfielder of his generation.

Outside of dribbling, Xavi is clear of Iniesta in every department.


I agree with this. Xavi is better than both. Iniesta might be more entertaining as dribbling. Unpopular opinion ; I think kroos is better than modric
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Post by Blue Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:40 am

Pedram wrote:
Blue wrote:I can't understand putting Iniesta and Modric over Xavi. Imo Xavi is the most influential midfielder of his generation.



It's understandable if some people find Mr Sideway Passes boring, Xavi is a master at what he does which is controlling the flow of the game but in term of overall pure enjoyment i'd put Ibra or even Suarez above him.


I get it if the criteria is enjoyment.
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Post by El Gunner Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:07 am

Pedram wrote:
Blue wrote:I can't understand putting Iniesta and Modric over Xavi. Imo Xavi is the most influential midfielder of his generation.



It's understandable if some people find Mr Sideway Passes boring, Xavi is a master at what he does which is controlling the flow of the game but in term of overall pure enjoyment i'd put Ibra or even Suarez above him.

i love Xavi, but major factos
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Post by El Gunner Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:07 am

Blue wrote:
Pedram wrote:
Blue wrote:I can't understand putting Iniesta and Modric over Xavi. Imo Xavi is the most influential midfielder of his generation.



It's understandable if some people find Mr Sideway Passes boring, Xavi is a master at what he does which is controlling the flow of the game but in term of overall pure enjoyment i'd put Ibra or even Suarez above him.


I get it if the criteria is enjoyment.

it's not just enjoyment, Iniesta and Modric actually have more individual accolades
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Post by El Gunner Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:08 am

titosantill wrote:
Blue wrote:I can't understand putting Iniesta and Modric over Xavi. Imo Xavi is the most influential midfielder of his generation.

Outside of dribbling, Xavi is clear of Iniesta in every department.

Unpopular opinion ; I think kroos is better than modric

now that's a hot take Laughing
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Post by sportsczy Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:27 am

titosantill wrote:
Blue wrote:I can't understand putting Iniesta and Modric over Xavi. Imo Xavi is the most influential midfielder of his generation.

Outside of dribbling, Xavi is clear of Iniesta in every department.


I agree with this. Xavi is better than both. Iniesta might be more entertaining as dribbling. Unpopular opinion ; I think kroos is better than modric

Kroos is more complete. Modric is more flashy and technical. Similar to Xavi compared to Iniesta although both Xavi and Iniesta are better than Kroos and Modric.
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Post by Thimmy Sun Jul 09, 2023 1:04 pm

sportsczy wrote:
titosantill wrote:
Blue wrote:I can't understand putting Iniesta and Modric over Xavi. Imo Xavi is the most influential midfielder of his generation.

Outside of dribbling, Xavi is clear of Iniesta in every department.


I agree with this. Xavi is better than both. Iniesta might be more entertaining as dribbling. Unpopular opinion ; I think kroos is better than modric

Kroos is more complete.   Modric is more flashy and technical.  Similar to Xavi compared to Iniesta although both Xavi and Iniesta are better than Kroos and Modric.


I agree with this. I think Modric’s «clutchness» can be more decisive in individual matches compared to Kroos’ more balanced approach to the game. That doesn’t necessarily make Modric better than Kroos or vice versa, but they clearly offer different things. What disappoints me about Kroos is how his athleticism seemed to decline already in his late 20s. Sometimes, you’d think he was closer to Modric’s age based on how early in a match he seems to run out of steam.
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