The Official Real Madrid 21-22 Match Day Thread

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Post by Doc Mon May 08, 2023 4:14 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:Camavinga >>Tchouaméni

I dare say they'll be a fine duo given proper game time and not what Carlo does.

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Post by halamadrid2 Mon May 08, 2023 5:23 pm

That's if Tchouaméni can adapt to play CM because as it stands Tcho isn't a better CDM than Camavinga
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Post by halamadrid2 Tue May 09, 2023 10:06 pm

Not happy with the draw. I had a feeling we'd come out without conceding but it was tough that goal was. Well taken but can't help but think that doesn't happen with a Casemiro type prescence.

Modric and Benz were terrible. Rodrygo anonymous yet again but the others were amazing. Would've liked to have won but I'll take a draw too.
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Post by titosantill Wed May 10, 2023 2:35 am

halamadrid2 wrote:That's if Tchouaméni can adapt to play CM because as it stands Tcho isn't a better CDM than Camavinga


is Tcho a cdm? i was always under the impression that he was a cm and Cama the CDM (who can play CM), but Tcho just plays that role cos obviously modric and kroos cannot. I would like to see a midfield trio of Tchou, Cama and Valverde as the CDM get a consistent run in the middle of the park
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Post by futbol_bill Wed May 10, 2023 1:41 pm

That’s great, but where does Bellingham fit in? I agree with you, but it looks like both Modric and Kroos are staying one more year. So the future midfield is still doubtful. For a guy that had a tremendous first half of season, I think Valverde has become the one on the bubble, in terms of starters! But if we look out another year, I think there will be lots of pressure on all 4 to start!
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Post by Perucho21 Wed May 17, 2023 9:49 pm

Don't worry fellas we gonna sign Jude, a competent backup striker, a RB and our starting 11 will still have Kroos Modric and Benzema
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Post by halamadrid2 Wed May 17, 2023 9:55 pm

If Casemiro had stayed we'd still rocked up with KCM, scary.

Last season our youngsters saved the day plus Benz. This time all bar Vini were in terrible form. City had amazing tactics tonight. They completely nullified Vini but our pressing was atrocious.
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Post by sportsczy Wed May 17, 2023 9:56 pm

Vini?!?!?!?!?! You serious?
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Post by halamadrid2 Wed May 17, 2023 9:59 pm

sportsczy wrote:Vini?!?!?!?!?! You serious?
I don't get it?
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Post by Perucho21 Wed May 17, 2023 10:04 pm

The match was over when we came out for the 2nd half with no changes expecting a different team

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Post by halamadrid2 Wed May 17, 2023 10:06 pm

Yeah

Carlo was never gojng to sub any of his mates at HT. The only one he subs is Camavinga who is the least of our problems.
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Post by halamadrid2 Wed May 17, 2023 10:10 pm

After a few great performances Valverde has gone completely shit. Shift his ass over to the RW and let Rodrygo become a supersub. He is nothing more than that I am afraid
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Post by titosantill Wed May 17, 2023 10:15 pm

Now that was an ass whooping if I ever saw one. Not much to say tbh
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Post by sportsczy Wed May 17, 2023 10:16 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:
sportsczy wrote:Vini?!?!?!?!?! You serious?
I don't get it?

Oh you meant for the season. Certainly not this game (not that he was alone there lol).
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Post by sportsczy Wed May 17, 2023 10:18 pm

If Valverde isn't winning 80% of 50/50 balls and running the wing, he's useless. He doesn't run the wing as a midfielder, he can't pass, can't really dribble... so it's really all about the 50/50.

Just stunning that we keep playing him as a CM.
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Post by halamadrid2 Wed May 17, 2023 10:24 pm

We need a new CF urgently. We can't keep going like this. Next season Benz will be 36 years old. Modric will be 38 and Kroos 34. I will seriously fly over there and punch the next coach in the face if these guys are our starters next season. We needed to move on from our midfield 4 seasons ago. Ok, they got us the 14th last season but they are only getting older not younger. We can't remain oblivious to the fact we need to move on from these guya.

Also super super dissapointed in Rodrygo. He was supposed to take the next step this season but has flopped as a starter against every single big team we've played. He wanted Carlo to persist with him but he hasn't answered the support he's gotten from Carlo. He can now either accept the super sub role or join Arsenal for all I care.
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Post by halamadrid2 Wed May 17, 2023 10:26 pm

sportsczy wrote:If Valverde isn't winning 80% of 50/50 balls and running the wing, he's useless.  He doesn't run the wing as a midfielder, he can't pass, can't really dribble... so it's really all about the 50/50.

Just stunning that we keep playing him as a CM.
every ball he was passed went back to the player who passed him the ball. Where is that guy who ran the length of the pitch against Mallorca and scored a screamer. He is a shadow of that player right now. Along with Modric and Benz this guy has been our worst player since the WC.
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Post by sportsczy Wed May 17, 2023 11:47 pm

Benzema is just broken, unfortunately... similar to Ramos. Just played himself into the ground, and he's paying the price now. He looks 3 steps slower and can't run around.
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Post by The Madrid One Thu May 18, 2023 2:01 am

Haven't been able to watch the match yet but I will as I'm intrigued to see what Pep and Carlo and the teams did.

I'm interested to see what Fede did. As I've said in the past and as I see that one of you said, on the right side of the field Fede works best when he's a right midfielder that helps carry the team in defensive and offensive transitions and runs. A less technical version of 2014 LM Di Maria. Playing when pressed in between the lines in the right side/final third of the pitch won't be his optimized zone of action, especially as he's apparently hit a significant slump in form as well. Fede the CM should play on the left/central side mostly from the behind the ball Alonso/Kroos LCM pocket. Fede can look like a very good passer and passable press resister within the right context. I've seen him be garbage with Uruguay as RCM and then be switched within minutes to an LCM role and perk up significantly.  

I don't feel with Carlo like we are squeezing all of the potential from the team. I believe in fact that that is the general feeling with the fanbase and media. Just because a dressing room is happy with a coach and everyone gets along (and that should be appreciated) doesn't mean that all of the team's potential is being achieved. Boy how great it would be to have someone who was brilliant tactically, could push the players to be as optimized as possible, and could also have the ability to manage a good climate in the dressing room. Results like the 4 in 5 CLs and the stuff from last year help cover up the fact that there seems to be a culture in the club that rejects sophistication with tactics and consistently high expectations with the players for something more crude and arguably indulgent. If Carlo mirrors the club's management then both things have to be changed. Since as long as I've been a Madrid fan (13 years now) it feels like we've more often than not had one of the top 3 or 4 squads in the world but our playing in terms of tactical flexibility/sophistication, intensity, and long term consistency has never been comparable to that seen in for example Pep's Barcelona or the Bayern Munich sides from 12/13 and 19/20 that were intense and could play however they pleased.

The 4 in 5 CLs and the extraordinary events of last year help mythify the idea that the club only needs the crest, elite players, luck, and clutchness at the end of the seasons to come out on top.

We've been deluded. There surely is a better, more sophisticated way.
------------------------

Aside from this. Get Bellingham, get Valverde up to shape, get another good striker and RW option, get a RB and maybe keep Mendy, Camavinga and apparently Fran Garcia as LB options at the least ... plus perhaps a new coach who can actually have the balls and be supported by the club to transition from Kroos, Modric, and Benzema and lets try again. The club needs to take a new step with a new coach into the fucking future already.

Why don't we have the culture to be able to do what Pep has been allowed to do at Bayern or Man City? or Klopp at Liverpool? CL tragedies aside.

You really think the club and Ancelotti are examples of optimization of resources and potential?

Yes, we do a lot of things well and most of everyone else doesn't look all that much more impressive but...
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Post by futbol_bill Thu May 18, 2023 2:10 pm

Not surprising that most of you rip the team after losing a 2nd game to a vastly superior team! Give credit where it is due. Pep adjusted his tactics as he was out coached in first game plus their talent is superior all over the pitch.

Our team is lacking in several respects, but we have known this all season long, most of which is too many players getting long in tooth! BUT they didn’t lose until the second leg in CL semi final and for sure whether it had been Real or City, this winner will indeed easily pass Inter. That makes our team second best out there despite all the known weaknesses. And it’s not a wasted season, they still won world club championship, europe super cup and copa del rey! Not what we want, but it is some consolation.

You all are putting this game and season on Carlo’s insistence on playing veterans, but you should consider why! Valverde fell off the cliff after WC and Tchouameni has not been impressive at all after WC and Camavinga although greatly impressed this season was needed to plug huge whole at LB. So in a sense, Carlo didn’t have a lot of choice re midfield. Then with Benz and Carvajal, there are no real alternatives. I agree with what Perucho has been saying about our recruitment needs! And finally, we have Rodrygo not making the jump in performances that we were expecting, Rudiger never really adjusting to Real (same can be said for Tchouameni), Militao going from best CB out there to making bone head moves far too frequently, Alaba age becoming a factor in too many injuries and Vini despite playing really well still has temperament and decision making issues.

The only players that I say played well in a reserve role were Ceballos, Asensio and Nacho, and all of them are up for renewals!
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Post by sportsczy Thu May 18, 2023 2:15 pm

Historically, Carlo does not develop young talent unless he’s forced to (injury, no veteran at the position, etc). He will manage his veterans the first half of the season and then go to them exclusively in the second half. He’s done this everywhere.

If the veteran players are mostly in their prime and team depth is shallow, he gets the maximum. In every other circumstance, he does not.

But I blame management here too. We don’t have another scorer other than Benzema. We have no backups in fact up front other than Asensio.

But we do have Camavinga and Tchou as young mids. There was no reason to play Kroos as a holding mid, play a 3 man mid against a 5 man mid v City, etc. that’s all on Carlo.

I would not trust him in a rebuild/transition project. If he stays, it signals to me that Madrid is not changing the roster much next season.
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Post by futbol_bill Thu May 18, 2023 2:32 pm

And who do you replace him with?

Tchouameni did not put in performances post WC to warrant a starting spot! And Camavinga was needed at LB! Why can’t you give credit where it is due?
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Post by futbol_bill Thu May 18, 2023 2:35 pm

As to changes, we are at same situation as last year, not a major overall. We need LB, RB, CF and RF plus Birmingham with Modric retiring!
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Post by futbol_bill Thu May 18, 2023 2:37 pm

And as to your interest beliefs, we have all seen over past couple of years where your interest / loyalty lies!
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Post by Thimmy Thu May 18, 2023 5:47 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:If Casemiro had stayed we'd still rocked up with KCM, scary.

Last season our youngsters saved the day plus Benz. This time all bar Vini were in terrible form. City had amazing tactics tonight. They completely nullified Vini but our pressing was atrocious.


I don’t doubt that we would’ve performed better in the league if he had stayed, but like I mentioned on here when Man United signed him, some of us complained about his consistency during the last two years while he was still with us, and at this very moment, he seems to be going through a spell of fatigue/poor form for Man United despite being introduced late into their season and having missed quite a few of their matches for various reasons.

All things considered, I think selling him was a good piece of business. I don’t think it’s very likely that he would’ve saved us against City, and only Man United seem to be willing to pay that kind of money for a player who’s about to enter his 30s (which he now is).
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Post by sportsczy Thu May 18, 2023 6:06 pm

Camavinga playing at left back was a Deschamps discovery, not Carlo.   When both Theo and Lucas Hernandez went down to injury and Deschamps wasn't allowed to call up anyone new due to new rules back during qualifying, he was forced to try both Rabiot and Camavinga at left back... and Camavinga did well.  Carlo saw that and carried on.

And if Mendy was healthy, he would have remained as the regular fullback.   So Carlo also played Camavinga as a fullback due to necessity like Deschamps.

Tchouameni has barely played since the world cup.   He was outstanding in the first half of the season, as I'm sure people aren't senile enough to forget.  He got benched to make room for Modric and Kroos to play as regulars with Valverde.  That simple.
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