Euro 2020 - SF : Spain - Italy

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Post by El Gunner Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:18 am

@Arquitecto wrote:
@Warrior wrote:I explained it during first half. Either got lost in the posts or nobody cared

Insigne and Berardi will play their usual game and cut inside. Chiesa as CF/false 9 will help the midfield and is more reliable to carry the ball (or quick combinations) even has more energy and pace to put pressure

I'm sorry Immobidone and Belotti are not starters in my team for a Euro final. Raspadori no experience so forget it. And it's not like you miss big time finishing leaving these guys on the bench.



Laughing Laughing Laughing

Sorry but idk why the part in bold killed me

my guy just wants to be quote-replied to that's all Laughing

@Robes, Martinelli is Brazilian

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Post by Jesp Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:20 am

@Arquitecto wrote:
@Robespierre wrote:Great post by Arq

Well I'm surprised about Locatelli to kick penalties, I don't think he never made in career
Conversely Berardi shots them for Sassuolo and well, he is not always cold but at least used to do it..
Lack of courage by him imo

When I 've seen Jorhinho as decisive penalty kicker ... I already exulted. He gives you tranquillity, fantastic free kicker and still he proved it

But a question about Simon ... Why is he the Spain GK ?

Honestly I 've seen rarely him but he was mediocre in my eyes.
if I think to him or Kepa , I think Basque school has a problem for GKs ( for the rest 4 Basque players on pitch today , orgoglio)

Bad impressions or he was indeed a weird choice by Lucho ?

Two words about Spain Euro.
I had watched roster at the beginning of tournament and I was skeptical about them.
Then even covid problem who gave other problems to the team surely.
Performances were inconsistent, but today they were the only team to create serious troubles to Italy

I' m a bit sorry for Luis Enrique, I don' t like particulary as manager but he's a gentleman of this sport. He deserves best luck



Beginning of game. 4 Basques on field.

End of the game. Only 2. Its mostly the reason why we lost in a day they were better than Mancini's team.

Unai is a star and he was good in the penalties too, guessed most right even if it went through and was very good was Switzerland in penalties and the game. One blunder vs Croatia but he is the future of the Roja and its unlikely to change.


Enrique losing broke my heart more than Spain's loss as he just lost his 9 year old daughter Xana to Leukemia very recently and only just came back to coach Spain again. I loved the player, love the coach and love the man. He's made of iron so will come stronger.

Italy seem to always get him be it his broken nose by Tassotti in Italy vs Spain to his troubled time in Roma to now this.


feels as if you are divided with ur support but i know deep down u support Spain! from the stuff u just wrote above u know every italian player well as spanish players ...
end of the day Spain was a better team and Italy got results they needed.

There are defo positives going forward with this Spain team. a team thats going through transitions with lot of old players not being there anymore but new called up players showing that they can be better match or even play better than Italy is a good sign for SPain going forward

u got reasons to be optimistic
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Post by Jesp Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:22 am

@Arquitecto wrote:
@Robespierre wrote:
@Arquitecto wrote:


Beginning of game. 4 Basques on field.

End of the game. Only 2. Its mostly the reason why we lost in a day they were better than Mancini's team.

Unai is a star and he was good in the penalties too, guessed most right even if it went through and was very good was Switzerland in penalties and the game. One blunder vs Croatia but he is the future of the Roja and its unlikely to change.


Enrique losing broke my heart more than Spain's loss as he just lost his 9 year old daughter Xana to Leukemia very recently and only just came back to coach Spain again. I loved the player, love the coach and love the man. He's made of iron so will come stronger.

Italy seem to always get him be it his broken nose by Tassotti in Italy vs Spain to his troubled time in Roma to now this.


and despite this he'll support Italy now, unreal human being



What a man.


He did say he will support Italia for the final if they go through and I believe him for he loves them.

I feel the same as it is hard supporting Italia when Spain remains in the tournament now all my hands are on Mancini's ship to take the Cup back to Rome.


good to know we got Spanish friends to support us!!! yaaay!
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Post by Jesp Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:25 am

@Robespierre wrote:
@Warrior wrote:Definitely drop Immobile for the final

He could not even control the ball correctly, we are begging for scraps here

Chiesa-Insigne-Berardi was more dangerous in the few minutes they play together. Belotti don't deserve to start either, he is a late game sub at best. I wonder what's going with Emerson too


well of course Mancini is not going to change his top 11 for the final

Moreover the alternative is Belotti who 's average, at least Immobile - if it's in shape - is capable to do things that Belotti can't do it


seriously this should be Mancini's priority after Euro. Find proper goalscorer; its been too long - not since Christian Vieri has italy got a proper prolific goalscorer and threat upfront.
i am even ok if between those chiesa berardi insigne and zaniolo being part of the starting lineup.


im even gonna say even gabbiadini would have done better than immobile and belotti. they seriously need to up or being dropped
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Post by Warrior Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:28 am

You have the goal scorer already: Moise Kean
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Post by Jesp Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:44 am

@Warrior wrote:You have the goal scorer already: Moise Kean


starting to feel the heat ... Moise Kean would have been great!
also Moise Kean knows Chiesa ... Zaniolo movement . they were incredible trios upfront when i watched them against SPain in U-21

hopefully mancini realizes this
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:58 am

Haven't watched the tournament at all but from what i understand the best team made the final so that's nice.
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Post by Doc Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:14 am

@futbol_bill wrote:
@Robespierre wrote:I don't want to be knocked out from people who writes Jajajajajaja when they laugh.


I can write it je je je je

Hey, you're alright there buddy?! Sad
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Post by rincon Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:49 am

@Jesp wrote:
@Warrior wrote:You have the goal scorer already: Moise Kean


starting to feel the heat ... Moise Kean would have been great!
also Moise Kean knows Chiesa ... Zaniolo movement . they were incredible trios upfront when i watched them against SPain in U-21

hopefully mancini realizes this

The main thing that blocked Kean from this euros was Kean himself. He has some growing up to do.

He had always been in Mancini's ream when fit but apparently had discipline issues in the last friendlies so he was dropped. Him and Zaniolo have this reputation, although Zaniolo looked like he buckled down.

For the world cup probably the only striker that has a real chance to break into the team is Kean. For later I hope for Scamacca.
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Post by Jesp Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:32 am

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Haven't watched the tournament at all but from what i understand the best team made the final so that's nice.


THis tournament is so strange that lot of unexpected teams has done better than big teams (even against Italy to certain extent)
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Post by Jesp Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:36 am

@rincon wrote:
@Jesp wrote:
@Warrior wrote:You have the goal scorer already: Moise Kean


starting to feel the heat ... Moise Kean would have been great!
also Moise Kean knows Chiesa ... Zaniolo movement . they were incredible trios upfront when i watched them against SPain in U-21

hopefully mancini realizes this

The main thing that blocked Kean from this euros was Kean himself. He has some growing up to do.

He had always been in Mancini's ream when fit but apparently had discipline issues in the last friendlies so he was dropped. Him and Zaniolo have this reputation, although Zaniolo looked like he buckled down.

For the world cup probably the only striker that has a real chance to break into the team is Kean. For later I hope for Scamacca.

yea I think we all know that the only thing that could stop his progress is if he can keep up with growing up and keep professionalism. he is young and he can learn and certainly stamp his place.

yea i know that zaniolo and kean was suspended but being late on team meeting.

Scamacca .. hmmm im not feeling his quality just yet he has skills but he is so inconsistent as well i am also hoping raspadori starts making strides in Sassuolo.
even caputo isnt that a bad idea if he does well he can still make in WC
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Post by The Franchise Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:19 am

@Jay29 wrote:Maybe I was following the narrative, but I had the strangest feeling Morata would miss. Poor guy.

Still, he was the only Spain play to take his chance and the reason they even got to penalties, so that shouldn't be forgotten. Oyarzabal could have sent Spain to the final on his own with the chances he had.

Spain are good still. Olmo and Pedri look the future of their midfield, Laporte is a great addition at the back and Pau Torres + Garcia are promising. If one of their forwards can get to that next level and become a killer for them, they'll be contenders.

As for Italy, this was one of the few times this tournament they chose to play without the ball and defend their penalty area. It could have been costly given Spain's chances. Immobile has been a problem because his hold-up and link-up has just been mediocre so he looks like the odd one out in the front line. Would be a big call to drop him for the final.

Agree, I felt it too. It was almost obvious he was going to miss it, he is cursed.

I think if they can get Fati back and then introduce Bryan Gil, they have quite a team to fall back on. Though, just like Barca, they still very much need Busquets. There is no replacement for what he can do in the right conditions.

Immobile is awful, I agree. It is a legit conversation if they should play Chiesa down the center with Berardi back out wide, its a tough call for sure.
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Post by The Franchise Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:37 am

Italy continue. Showed more of the defensive stability and stubbornness vs the dominating football they have been playing up until now even if they had moments they were hanging on.

Emerson did a decent job replacing Spinazzola in my book. Not as good in every area, but I think he did enough. Toloi almost cost them the game, he is awful and I think if they could have, they may have subbed him back off.

Chiesa doing what he does, tremendous player. I think if they have a better 9 than Immobile, they win this game in normal time or extra time. Spain defended better than the last games, but they were still weak at 50-50 duels and Immobile and Insigne (who isnt fast over distances) just didnt have the attributes to make them pay. I think if Italy control the game completely, you see Immobile's strengths better, but in these high level matches where you will be put into different scenarios and all players first touch, awareness and quickness will be tested constantly, he's lacking alot.

Spain will feel hard done by but they put up a great performance and on another day, they win. Olmo was very good as a false 9, but also very good appearing from the inside left when Morata went up front. I think they needed more from Mikel and Torres, like Gerard Moreno, they just werent good enough. Ansu Fati improves this team ALOT if/when he returns.

Alot of calls for Adama, baffles me, must be prem bias. He isnt going to do anything in these kinds of high level games. Italy will not give any space behind and all he will do is dribbling into center areas, lose the ball and set up Italy transitions.

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Post by El Gunner Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:09 pm

like RG said, Adama would have been perfect weapon in extra time
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Post by Robespierre Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:12 pm

Tancredi Palmieri lol @Firenze @RealGunner

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Post by Arquitecto Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:41 pm

Immobile looked great during the group stages as one must know the history of how he reacts to criticism in stages and what he becomes to know what went wrong and by no means am I defending him.

I dont want him to begin in the final simply because at this stage when he is Zero self belief Immobile he will be the exact same as he was versus Belgium and Spain.

Plus the system does not play to his strengths though that even is no excuse for he did score two with a near ridiculous post shot v Austria, for his fundamentals have degraded within the Euros themselves, as Italy have climbed the bracket.

Chiesa is an interesting call for CF as do you really think he has the central tendencies for that? He is basically two-footed and has a creative side to him but to be placed central is similar to when great forwards want to replicate Henry and fail there as unless you're suggesting a False 9 here. But he seems comfortable in all areas in the box so that does help.


Adama is called on by people who abuse his pace and strength on FIFA and little more. He is bang average and wouldn't have done anything bar trouble oriundo Toloi at best, whom Ive still no idea on how he made the squad.


Shame El Shaarawy is not being played as I'd prefer him central as he naturally is that despite his exploits on the wing and has supreme control to manoeuvre himself out of tight situations.
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Post by farfan Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:59 pm

What the hell are you guys talking about? Laughing Adama is great. His accurate crossing alone would've been dangerous as Morata is pretty decent in the air.

If anything, the irrational anti-England hate of some Serie A and La Liga fans made him underrated. They're allergic to any player that finds success in the Premier League. I remember them doing the same to Kanté.
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Post by Arquitecto Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:04 pm

It would be pretty sad to hate on Adama simply out of a league hate but not worth speaking of.

Fine I have not witnessed him too much in his respective team but for Spain he does not cut it.

But in fairness to him its not a system for him where he can effectively use his speed and he has not been effective in his 6-8 appearances so far, to suggest he would have made a difference.
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Post by McLewis Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:54 pm

@Arquitecto wrote:


Edit: Rafael Toilet is fucking shit. Why does EVERY TEAM HAVE AN ATALANTA PLAYER in their line-up. Gasperini fuck off. Get this Oriundo off the squad.



Isn't Jorginho, one of Italy's best players and the match winner, also an oriundo? I'm confused by this phrasing Arq.

Toloi isn't up to standard, but what does his being oriundo have to do with it?
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Post by Arquitecto Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:01 pm

It has nothing to do with it as Ive nothing against him being split-nationality and would find a way to degrade his abilities oriundo or not so excuse me for that. Toloi just seems to possess no intelligence in how to defend an oncoming player as even regular situations he is blocking them as if its a needed last ditch cynical foul.

Italy historically have had great Oriundi for them from Altafini to Sivori to Camoranesi and bless them for their service.
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Post by rincon Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:16 pm

Toloi is a good player. Good defender and versatile. Didn't do anything of note last night, it happens, but he is good.
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Post by McLewis Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:28 pm

@Arquitecto wrote:It has nothing to do with it as Ive nothing against him being split-nationality and would find a way to degrade his abilities oriundo or not so excuse me for that. Toloi just seems to possess no intelligence in how to defend an oncoming player as even regular situations he is blocking them as if its a needed last ditch cynical foul.

Italy historically have had great Oriundi for them from Altafini to Sivori to Camoranesi and bless them for their service.

I will admit I was surprised to see Gianluca Mancini left at home in favor of Toloi, but then again, Atalanta did have a better defensive record than Roma this past season. How much either had to do with Toloi or Mancini is debatable. Do you think Mancini would've fared better?

@rincon wrote:Toloi is a good player. Good defender and versatile. Didn't do anything of note last night, it happens, but he is good.

I frankly regret that we let him go. He could've been quite useful for us. That said and, Roma bias aside, I think Mancini would've done better for Italy personally.
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Post by The Franchise Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:30 pm

@El Gunner wrote:like RG said, Adama would have been perfect weapon in extra time

How? At this stage, the Italy backline was on the edge of the box and the midfield 8-10m in front. No space for someone as cumbersome as him to operate in. Italy were not even looking to score in extra time, just wait for the rare opportunities to counter.

All that would have happened is Adama turns the ball over, Italy counter into the spaces around Laporte and Torres.
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Post by The Franchise Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:34 pm


Chiesa is an interesting call for CF as do you really think he has the central tendencies for that? He is basically two-footed and has a creative side to him but to be placed central is similar to when great forwards want to replicate Henry and fail there as unless you're suggesting a False 9 here. But he seems comfortable in all areas in the box so that does help.


Its a tough one. I think against Spain, you are looking to transition as fast as possible into the spaces behind, so Chiesa's speed is a big threat compared to Immobile. Plus it gets Berardi on the field who can cause something from nothing, as he almost did in the end there. Very close to scoring when he came inside.

Against another opponent, maybe Chiesa as the 9 makes less sense.
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Post by The Franchise Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:36 pm

@farfan wrote:What the hell are you guys talking about? Laughing Adama is great. His accurate crossing alone would've been dangerous as Morata is pretty decent in the air.

If anything, the irrational anti-England hate of some Serie A and La Liga fans made him underrated. They're allergic to any player that finds success in the Premier League. I remember them doing the same to Kanté.

Hog wash. Adama is a extremely limited player who you can only use in particular circumstances.

Morata against Chiellini in the air? Mis match. Why on earth would Spain start halling balls into the box when they are having success in the short spaces using Olmo and Pedri?

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Post by futbol_bill Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:47 pm

Well, I’m over the disappointment. It was once again Spain was the better team overall but couldn’t  find the back of the net. I still say this team has been severely criticized and underrated, particularly on this forum. As to a loss in penalties, I have always said penalties is a crap shoot, you never know who will win.

I have no bitterness to Italy, they have been great all tournament and I believe will win the cup.

There is once again severe criticism of Morata. He does have his inconsistencies, but he works hard and makes lots if contributions. Quite frankly, he is the best we have. Olmo was excellent yesterday, but we can’t say the same about the other games. He’s very young and will get better. The same can be said about the other forwards. A comment about Sarabia to those asking why he didn’t play yesterday. He was injured!

Pedri had a breakthru tournament. He will be core to us for the foreseeable future. Busquets was the leader out there, as was Alba. Koke also played very well. Fabian, Rodri and Thiago offered relief from the bench. Speaking about Thiago, he has lost something! I think he is heavier now, which may be a factor. @Hans constantly beefing that he is our best and should be a set starter is very misguided. Either Hans didn’t watch him for the past year or he is just blowing smoke! Koke (his opposition) definitely is the better of the two.

The fullbacks were great. All 4 of them made huge contributions and Llorente has amazing versatility. Being a Madrid fan, it’s such a shame (for us) that Zidane didn’t recognize the potential this guy had!

Simon was great. Clearly better than DeGea (of late) and Kepa. He did make two big mistakes, one yesterday, but nothing a bit of concentration can’t solve.

My disappointment is with the CBs. Both Pau and Laporte played well, but each have some issues. I started off this tournament accepting Enrique’s selections, but on hindsight, i think he should have taken Ramos as a 4th CB., giving him time to prove he can contribute. There were definite moments in this tournament where his leadership, header ability plus penalties capability would have helped. I wasn’t at all impressed with Eric Garcia and Diego Llorente wasn’t even given a single minute! Nacho would have been a much better option. With the WC just a year away and with Ramos now with a top club, I suspect Ramos will be back with seleccion.  All in all, I went into this tournament hopeful but highly doubtful. Now I’m excited for our chances in the WC.
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