Jose Mourinho Sack Watch: Roma Edition

He hasn't really been bad at Roma, I'm not sure why questions would be asked of his sacking. Mind, I'm not up to date on if he's been pulling shenanigans and creating a toxic environment (yet)

That Roma team is absolutely god awful, the only good players they've got are Veretout, Tammy and Mkhitaryan on a good day. The rest are average, injury-ridden, past it, rejects or just plain dogshit.

He's not been bad at Roma, but he's been stirring up drama earlier than usual.

Though Roma might be doing even better than I expect. Just look at the defense they played today. Those players aren't top 4 quality and they aren't top 6 quality either. Honestly as far as I'm concerned if he finishes higher than 6th he's overachieved.

His two most talented players have had back to back ACL injuries while the other one is injury prone.

Rest of the team either came from Atalanta or Sassuolo or some reject/journeyman from a bigger club or league.

I even have doubts over someone like Tammy Abraham. I think he's a good signing, but at his current level does he have the necessary quality to be a reliable starting 9 for a team aiming for CL? Has he ever played outside of England? I mean that's a lot of pressure.

Kaladin wrote:That Roma team is absolutely god awful, the only good players they've got are Veretout, Tammy and Mkhitaryan on a good day. The rest are average, injury-ridden, past it, rejects or just plain

dogshit.

The only player I could name off their bench was SES and I thought he was still in China. Then I saw Carlos Perez come on and I was like damn this guy looks kind of familiar. I thought he was the one Luis Enrique played when Neymar had to go on his annual sister-related leave of absence in 2015. Turned out that was another La Masia scrub named Sandro ffs.

I wouldn't even be able to name the rest of the players on the bench. I'm sure someone like Rincon doesn't know who those names are either.

Casciavit wrote:

Lord Spencer wrote:

Casciavit wrote:I think Mourinho is past it at the highest level aka elite clubs, but Roma is far from elite. Have you seen their team? They are garbage. Whoever was responsible for compiling the dross in that squad needs to be banned from entering the city ever again.

He still has a good mind for squad building. I wouldn't sack him unless they finish below 10th or he completely ruins the dressing room by the end of the season.

"Dross"?

I have no idea what you are seeing, but Roma's squad (at least their first team) is not dross by any stretch of the imagination.

From the GK to the top, they have really good players. Maybe they don't have any WC players, but few Serie A teams have them anyways.

Sure, their bench isn't as strong, but it's still good enough for a top 6-7 side with an outside chance of getting fourth if their starting 11 stays healthy and fit.

It's a team of rejects.

Most people wouldn't be even able to tell you where half those players came from.

That doesn't matter the least. Most people wouldn't rate most Serie A players, but that doesn't mean they're "dross". Hell, no one where I am from knows a single Milan player apart from Ibra, Giroud, and maybe Kjaer because of the Euros.

They have a quality starting 11 that could realistically compete for a top 4 spot in Serie A, but a weak bench.

True, they are also a team of "rejects", but that has no meaning when those "rejects" like Mikhtaryan are still quality players

Casciavit wrote:

Kaladin wrote:That Roma team is absolutely god awful, the only good players they've got are Veretout, Tammy and Mkhitaryan on a good day. The rest are average, injury-ridden, past it, rejects or just plain

dogshit.

The only player I could name off their bench was SES and I thought he was still in China. Then I saw Carlos Perez come on and I was like damn this guy looks kind of familiar. I thought he was the one Luis Enrique played when Neymar had to go on his annual sister-related leave of absence in 2015. Turned out that was another La Masia scrub named Sandro ffs.

I wouldn't even be able to name the rest of the players on the bench. I'm sure someone like Rincon doesn't know who those names are either.

Remember, in this match, Mourinho actually brought only Primavera players to the bench, since he is still freezing the players that lost in Norway.

Not to say their actual bench is much better, because it is still weak.

Mou brought this onto himself being to cocky when he was at the top, ppl like me would bash him as soon as he stumbles a bit Even if he achieves top 4 we wont be satisfied, unless he wins stuff again he wont every anyone over again

Kaladin wrote:That Roma team is absolutely god awful, the only good players they've got are Veretout, Tammy and Mkhitaryan on a good day. The rest are average, injury-ridden, past it, rejects or just plain dogshit.

Again, Kaladin and Casciavit with their extremely hyperbolic opinions. Almost as bad as Hans.

Apparently, there are no degrees between GOAT and dog shit in their rating.

Before the red card, this "dogshit" team regularly carved us in the counter and would have scored a couple of goals if not for some sublime interceptions by Kjaer and Kessie. Then, after the red card (by the GREATEST LB IN THE WORLD), the supposedly "dogshit" team easily dominated the match (you would think a much better team wouldn't get dominated by losing only one man) even more so than Atletico did against us.

I never claimed they were all dogshit, read my post again

Kaladin wrote:The rest are average, injury-ridden, past it, rejects or just plain dogshit.

Lets take a look at their squad:

Rui Patrício (Past it)
Rick Karsdorp (Average)
Roger Ibañez (Average)
Bryan Cristante (3rd captain) (Dogshit)
Matías Viña (Average)
Chris Smalling (Past it/Injury Ridden)
Lorenzo Pellegrini (captain) (Good)
Gonzalo Villar (Garbage)
Tammy Abraham (Good)
Carles Pérez (Garbage)
Riccardo Calafiori (Mediocre)
Eldor Shomurodov (Average)
Jordan Veretout (Good)
Bryan Reynolds (Mediocre)
Borja Mayoral (on loan from Real Madrid) (Average)
Nicolò Zaniolo (Injury ridden/not the same)
Gianluca Mancini (vice-captain) (Average)
Marash Kumbulla (on loan from Verona) (Average)
Leonardo Spinazzola (Good/Injury ridden)
Amadou Diawara (Dogshit)
Edoardo Bove (Who?)
Ebrima Darboe(Who?)
Nicola Zalewski(Who?)
Pietro Boer(Who?)
Filippo Tripi(Who?)
Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Good/Inconsistent)
Daniel Fuzato (Mediocre)
Stephan El Shaarawy (Past it/injury ridden)

There's a lot of dross in this Roma squad, and i mostly agree with Cas - bar a few good players.

Kaladin wrote:I never claimed they were all dogshit, read my post again

Kaladin wrote:The rest are average, injury-ridden, past it, rejects or just plain dogshit.

Lets take a look at their squad:

Rui Patrício (Past it)
Rick Karsdorp (Average)
Roger Ibañez (Average)
Bryan Cristante (3rd captain) (Dogshit)
Matías Viña (Average)
Chris Smalling (Past it/Injury Ridden)
Lorenzo Pellegrini (captain) (Good)
Gonzalo Villar (Garbage)
Tammy Abraham (Good)
Carles Pérez (Garbage)
Riccardo Calafiori (Mediocre)
Eldor Shomurodov (Average)
Jordan Veretout (Good)
Bryan Reynolds (Mediocre)
Borja Mayoral (on loan from Real Madrid) (Average)
Nicolò Zaniolo (Injury ridden/not the same)
Gianluca Mancini (vice-captain) (Average)
Marash Kumbulla (on loan from Verona) (Average)
Leonardo Spinazzola (Good/Injury ridden)
Amadou Diawara (Dogshit)
Edoardo Bove (Who?)
Ebrima Darboe(Who?)
Nicola Zalewski(Who?)
Pietro Boer(Who?)
Filippo Tripi(Who?)
Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Good/Inconsistent)
Daniel Fuzato (Mediocre)
Stephan El Shaarawy (Past it/injury ridden)

There's a lot of dross in this Roma squad, and i mostly agree with Cas - bar a few good players.

I already said that their bench is weak, but I see the usual hyperbole in rating their first team as well:

Rui Patrício (Past it) (BS assessment, a 33 year old GK and a full international, still good)
Rick Karsdorp (Average) (average to good)
Roger Ibañez (Average) (good and with potential to grow, still young for a CB)
Bryan Cristante (3rd captain) (Dogshit) (BS assessment, completely solid and versatile midfielder for years. Not really very good, but never dogshit)
Matías Viña (Average)
Lorenzo Pellegrini (captain) (Good) (Good to very good IMO)
Tammy Abraham (Good)
Jordan Veretout (Good) (good to very good)
Nicolò Zaniolo (Injury ridden/not the same) (still young, and still very dangerous, was their most fouled player last night, good to very good)
Gianluca Mancini (vice-captain) (Average) (I think he is actually the weak link in their defense)
Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Good/Inconsistent) (Unfair, was one of the best players in Serie A last year, and is still very good this year)

Other than that, I agree with the assessment of their bench. They probably only have 5 or 7 other good and healthy players to count on.

Based on their lack of depth, I don't think it's likely that Roma would finish fourth, as they won't be able to compesnate for any injuries.

Kaladin wrote:I never claimed they were all dogshit, read my post again

Kaladin wrote:The rest are average, injury-ridden, past it, rejects or just plain dogshit.

Lets take a look at their squad:

Rui Patrício (Past it)
Rick Karsdorp (Average)
Roger Ibañez (Average)
Bryan Cristante (3rd captain) (Dogshit)
Matías Viña (Average)
Chris Smalling (Past it/Injury Ridden)
Lorenzo Pellegrini (captain) (Good)
Gonzalo Villar (Garbage)
Tammy Abraham (Good)
Carles Pérez (Garbage)
Riccardo Calafiori (Mediocre)
Eldor Shomurodov (Average)
Jordan Veretout (Good)
Bryan Reynolds (Mediocre)
Borja Mayoral (on loan from Real Madrid) (Average)
Nicolò Zaniolo (Injury ridden/not the same)
Gianluca Mancini (vice-captain) (Average)
Marash Kumbulla (on loan from Verona) (Average)
Leonardo Spinazzola (Good/Injury ridden)
Amadou Diawara (Dogshit)
Edoardo Bove (Who?)
Ebrima Darboe(Who?)
Nicola Zalewski(Who?)
Pietro Boer(Who?)
Filippo Tripi(Who?)
Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Good/Inconsistent)
Daniel Fuzato (Mediocre)
Stephan El Shaarawy (Past it/injury ridden)

There's a lot of dross in this Roma squad, and i mostly agree with Cas - bar a few good players.

Let's add context to this rather than snap judgements.

Rui Patricio - Best keeper we've had since Alisson. Not as good as Alisson, but better than Olsen, Mirante and Lopez easily.
Rick Karsdorp - 2nd only to Pellegrini in form right now. His crossing has been vital for us and he's getting better defensively.
Roger Ibanez - Reckless, but will only get better with experience.
Bryan Cristante - Playing so far out of his natural position it's tragic.
Matias Vina - A more than serviceable vice-Spinazzola. Has improved heaps since getting sauteed by Felipe Anderson.
Chris Smalling - My favorite of our defenders, but a predictable case. Injured far too often, but good when he plays.
Lorenzo Pellegrini - In the best form of his life right now. Truly a level above everyone else right now.
Gonzalo Villar - Out of his depth in Mou's system. Will do well back in La Liga somewhere.
Tammy Abraham - Doing everything he's supposed to do. Very unlucky.
Carles Perez - A live wire off the bench when he's in the mood to shoot on goal.
Riccardo Calafiori - Injuries have slowed him down, but I think he'll come good.
Eldor Shomurodov - Should not be played on the wing. Far better as a striker or CF.
Jordan Veretout - Dynamic, but tactically clueless. Mou is working on him.
Bryan Reynolds - Should've gone out on loan. Isn't ready.
Borja Mayoral - Getting the shitty end of the stick. Good player who will do well back in La Liga.
Nicolo Zaniolo - Play him off the striker and he becomes the ultimate chaos agent. Too isolated on the wing.
Gianluca Mancini - Brave and combative, but has a mistake in him at the worst possible times.
Max Kumbulla - This was too high a step up for him. He'd look out of place at Tudor's Verona too.
Leonardo Spinazzola - Euro gave him street cred, but he's not the defensive answer at full back for us.
Amadou Diawara - Our best passer from deep alongside Cristante. Defensively just not good enough.
Edoardo Bove - Totti has had a lot of heirs, but this one could very likely be De Rossi's.
Ebrima Darboe - The player that we expected Diawara to be. So calm on the ball despite his age.
Nicola Zalewski - Fearless youngster with a real talent in dead ball situations.
Pietro Boer - Very good with his feet, which is the en vogue attribute for keepers.
Filippo Tripi - Another potential DDR heir. Better with both feet than Bove for me.
Henrikh Mkhitaryan - When he's in form, he's unplayable. When he's not, he's unwatchable.
Daniel Fuzato - Blew his chance at potentially replacing Pau Lopez, which was always a long shot anyway.
Stephan El Shaarawy - Still capable of the magical, but so inconsistent.
Felix Afena-Gyan - He has Mou's trust and that's huge for a Primavera player. Humble, but confident player.

It's a lot more complex than just who's good and who's garbage. I hope this helps.

Robespierre wrote:Differences with Roma under Fonseca ?

Not too many honestly. We have more attitude. More....aggression, I suppose.

Footballing-wise, there hasn't been much of a difference................yet.

So in short, Roma still need to beef up their squad some more. Transfers are going to be important so we'll see what Roma manage to haul in. Glad to see Veretout is getting the recognition he deserves tho.

Kaladin wrote:I never claimed they were all dogshit, read my post again

Kaladin wrote:The rest are average, injury-ridden, past it, rejects or just plain dogshit.

Lets take a look at their squad:

Rui Patrício (Past it)
Rick Karsdorp (Average)
Roger Ibañez (Average)
Bryan Cristante (3rd captain) (Dogshit)
Matías Viña (Average)
Chris Smalling (Past it/Injury Ridden)
Lorenzo Pellegrini (captain) (Good)
Gonzalo Villar (Garbage)
Tammy Abraham (Good)
Carles Pérez (Garbage)
Riccardo Calafiori (Mediocre)
Eldor Shomurodov (Average)
Jordan Veretout (Good)
Bryan Reynolds (Mediocre)
Borja Mayoral (on loan from Real Madrid) (Average)
Nicolò Zaniolo (Injury ridden/not the same)
Gianluca Mancini (vice-captain) (Average)
Marash Kumbulla (on loan from Verona) (Average)
Leonardo Spinazzola (Good/Injury ridden)
Amadou Diawara (Dogshit)
Edoardo Bove (Who?)
Ebrima Darboe(Who?)
Nicola Zalewski(Who?)
Pietro Boer(Who?)
Filippo Tripi(Who?)
Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Good/Inconsistent)
Daniel Fuzato (Mediocre)
Stephan El Shaarawy (Past it/injury ridden)

There's a lot of dross in this Roma squad, and i mostly agree with Cas - bar a few good players.

Good assessment.

As for the other posts, yeah if you nitpick every single player, I'm sure you can find that each one might have at least one positive attribute.

Castillejo (Fast but inconsistent)

whoop dee doo

So then what's the point of any of these posts then?

If we're looking at it from a bigger picture.....Roma has always had a distinctly average team. Even the 2018 Romantada side punched way above its weight that year. When was the last time we truly had a world class XI? 20 years ago probably.

So this exercise in deciding who is garbage and who is not, with no context, isn't productive at all. For me, this is one of the worst things about having a high profile coach.

Caught part of the match last night against archnemesis Bodø/Glimt.

It's clear that Roma and Mou are building something in the end. It is working to a good degree, they've surpassed Atalanta and Lazio.

What I thought was funny about last night was the downward career trajectory of Mou. Its clear that he still knows how to win and is once again in a European semifinal. But then I thought, 10 years ago he won his last CL, 5 years ago he won EL, this year he might win the conference league

Anyway, Zaniolo destroyed Bodø. 3 goals and was involved the other one. Devastating when "on" and awesome to watch.

Rincon, I am going to be honest, almost a whole year passed and I forgot the conference league is an actual competition. Jeez.

The start of the competition is the european version of the carabao cup, only watched 1 match (of Roma) but by now is basically another EL.

A colleague mentioned today that the club coefficient of the final 4 is higher in the conference league than in EL. Should make for fun semifinals.

Conf:
Roma
Leicester
Feyenoord
Marseille

EL:
West Ham
Eintracht
RBL
Rangers

Decent season for Roma under Mou, but i'm curious to see year 2

It seems Mourinho generally agrees with me and Cas' sentiment regarding Roma's players being mostly trash, who woulda thunk

Majority of the dross are going to be cleared out this summer according to reports, which i think is a step in the right direction.

too early to say if its a decent season or not, not about to start hyping the team after beating some no name team in the confere league

in serie a they can still easily end up 7th or 8th

hope they can nick 4th though

Roma were actually unlucky not scoring more at the start. I'd say they could easily have 6-9 pts more if Abraham had been a bit luckier.

Piqué: "Mourinho got into the heads of the Real Madrid players. Mou used to tell them: 'These guys [Barça players] hate you', and they believed him... Once I went with the Spanish National Team in the Mou Era, I told Casillas: 'Hey Iker, what's up?' And he did not talk to me."

"During Euro 2012 it was the worst moment of the Mourinho-Pep rivalry. The Madrid and Barça players had to make an agreement to be able to play together. Xavi and Iker were very close friends, and it came a point that they didn't talk to each other."

"We had to sit down and talk and make it clear: We have to compete for the Euro. It was complicated at that time."

"Mourinho at the press conferences, every day, was always talking about Barcelona and Pep. It was too much. For him, what happened off the pitch was more important than what happened on the pitch. Pep left Barça for many reasons... But one of them was because of Mourinho."

Mourinho almost wasted the best generation of spanish players Cant believe grown men wouldnt talk to each other because of him

Mourinho is very toxic, true, but Piqué isn't exactly well-placed to criticize him because he's just as guilty of all the things that he is accusing Mourinho of.

Actually, now that I think of it, he was actually one of the major contributors to the deterioration of the relationship between the two clubs at the time (antics on and off the field, constant attacks, provocations and mocking of Madrid on social media, pressuring and influencing the ref's decisions during the clasico, publicly accusing Madrid of having the refs in their pockets, playacting, and the list goes on...).

It amazes me that one of the most morally corrupt players in history dares to criticize another person of that which he is guilty of.

Also, one of the reasons Pep left was because of Mourinho? The dude is not even smart enough to come up with a believable lie. He should kindly stfu.

Sacked.

De Rossi incoming for Roma.

Ridiculous decision.

First cup this loser club win in god knows how long with a mediocre squad and they sack him as if some next coach or primavera maestro will fix it.

Mourinho being in the club also brings a higher profile to the club as it is.

Italian clubs suck at replacements too these days as Napoli bringing in Mazzarri was just hilarious.