Jose Mourinho Sack Watch: Roma Edition

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Post by McLewis Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:55 pm

The players themselves were not up for this and it showed in the build up.



If I'm a Bodo player, I use this as a fuel. And they did.

It's astounding how many people in and around this club confuse confidence for arrogance.

I think my biggest problem with the mentality from both Mou and the players is a distinct lack of humility. A lack of respect for the competition, the opponents and the fans. I expect that from Mou. He's built a brand on his hubris and arrogance, which often gets mistaken as confidence.

The players though? It's one thing to be arrogant and to be able to back that up. It's another to talk shit and then get absolutely smashed. And that's been our story for a long time, way before Mou. The arrogance of these players is astounding. No one has won anything. Not a single thing. Yet there's this sense of entitlement. That they are owed victories over sides like Bodo just for showing up. That's what I got from Mancini's words. And as a leader in the locker room, that sets a poor example.

We're probably going to lose to Napoli. That's not really up for debate. How we lose will really matter though.


Last edited by McLewis on Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by sportsczy Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:01 pm

It's a shame that Mourinho nowadays only leaves a path of destruction behind. At Madrid, he legit saved us from mediocrity by changing the mindset of the club. The hubris was always there... but so was the culture of winning. Now it's just hubris.

Not sure what happened to him.
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Post by Kaladin Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:54 pm

It started with Ozil, then Cesc, then it went on to Pogba

Now he's feuding with bottomcarders like Karsdrop and Kumbulla, unreal
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Post by El Gunner Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:05 am

reminds me of my high school manager... beyond toxic
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Post by Robespierre Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:26 am

But yet today he' ll stop the Capolista with 8 wins on 8
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:56 am

sportsczy wrote:It's a shame that Mourinho nowadays only leaves a path of destruction behind.  At Madrid, he legit saved us from mediocrity by changing the mindset of the club.  The hubris was always there...  but so was the culture of winning.  Now it's just hubris.

Not sure what happened to him.


Being literally man-handled by Arsene Wenger, of all people, probably shook the last firm screw loose
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:01 am

sportsczy wrote:It's a shame that Mourinho nowadays only leaves a path of destruction behind. At Madrid, he legit saved us from mediocrity by changing the mindset of the club. The hubris was always there... but so was the culture of winning. Now it's just hubris.

Not sure what happened to him.

I agree. He was a winner and his mentality reflected that.
I give him full credit for raising Madrid back from the dead and putting them on the map again.

Really not sure what happened to him either. Just a decade ago, he was the most sought-after manager in Europe. Now, he's just a shadow of his former self.

His fall from grace was quick and brutal. I don't think I have ever seen anything like it.

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Post by Robespierre Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:08 am

Well I think it is normal instead
Managers such as players have their deadline
He 's been coach for 15+ years, it is long period
It's enough make comparison with Ancelotti
Another manager of long period who was average at EVERTON Just yesterday and honestly I don't feel he's brilliant at Madrid now as he was in old times
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Post by Kaladin Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:57 am

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Post by McLewis Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:29 am

Heads had to roll for that debacle in Norway. Classic Mou.

All of them were awful, but the one that should really be there is Riccardo Calafiori. Only Kumbulla was worse than him. He's got Raiola for an agent though so something like this was never going to happen to him.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:47 am

@McLewis I'm interested to know your take on this as a Roma fan. Do you still think having Mourinho around is good for the club in the long term? Or do you think his negatives outweigh his positives and it would be best to let him go?
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Post by McLewis Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:56 am

The Demon of Carthage wrote:@McLewis I'm interested to know your take on this as a Roma fan. Do you still think having Mourinho around is good for the club in the long term? Or do you think his negatives outweigh his positives and it would be best to let him go?


Despite not really liking his appointment (and still not really liking it aesthetically), I recognize Mou is likely a good thing for this club long-term, especially if he can change the mentality of the players, which can change the mentality of the club itself. It is still super early days and this is still largely a team Mou inherited rather than built himself. If he's given that chance, I think we'll see different results from what we're used to with Roma. That a gigantic IF though as patience is far from a virtue at Roma.

As for the negatives? I think we have to take the bad with the good when it comes to Mou. We've had a glimpse of the negatives this past week. Is it implosion-worthy? Not sure yet, but I don't think so. If anything, that loss in Norway shows exactly why Mou doesn't trust young players in large numbers. He prefers veterans for that very reason and the draw against Napoli proved him right on this occasion.

So at this point, I'm going to say no to letting him go. It's just way too early for that talk. Fonseca got 2 years and suffered through both of them. Mou will get at least that much.


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Post by Arquitecto Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:45 pm

Fantastic response above.

Mourinho quite simply has been good. Letting him go now given the winning mentality he can install in the club ethos would be foolish and the season has barely commenced as it is.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:14 pm

Yes, I agree with McLewis that it's too early to let him go, that's why I asked about his impact long-term.

Fact is, Mourinho is very toxic, and his toxicity becomes even more apparent in the long term. Should Roma decide to keep him beyond 3 years (assuming he doesn't live up to the expectations ), his toxic personality will affect everybody at the club. I'm not sure it's worth it anymore, especially now that he no longer seems able to deliver silverware.
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Post by McLewis Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:04 pm

The Demon of Carthage wrote:Yes, I agree with McLewis that it's too early to let him go, that's why I asked about his impact long-term.

Fact is, Mourinho is very toxic, and his toxicity becomes even more apparent in the long term. Should Roma decide to keep him beyond 3 years (assuming he doesn't live up to the expectations ), his toxic personality will affect everybody at the club. I'm not sure it's worth it anymore, especially now that he no longer seems able to deliver silverware.


He's the coaching equivalent to using morphine when in pain. Enough of it and you'll feel great and no pain. Too much and it'll kill you.

Mou's personality, temperament, aesthetic...just his overall style, like all things, has to be taken in moderation. It's a very delicate balance that the Friedkins need to tread lightly with as they need him more than he needs them. And he knows that.
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Post by McLewis Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:06 pm

Arquitecto wrote:Fantastic response above.

Mourinho quite simply has been good. Letting him go now given the winning mentality he can install in the club ethos would be foolish and the season has barely commenced as it is.


He's going to run those same 13-ish players right into the ground, I think. January is always a weird window for us, but it's going to be crucial this season.
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Post by RealGunner Sun Oct 31, 2021 5:05 pm

How long will he last?
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sun Oct 31, 2021 5:22 pm

The mentality Mourinho installs at his clubs is that everyone ends up hating each other's guts

Madness how people are still defending his work

the guy is pure toxicity
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Post by Firenze Sun Oct 31, 2021 6:05 pm

RealGunner wrote:How long will he last?


I mean looking at the losses they have this season, couple bad ones but it's Roma, not exactly a stacked squad is it? I guess the aim is CL qualification, barring a disastrous run I doubt he'll be sacked this season. Probably leave by mutual consent at the end of the season and attack the clubs ambizione
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Post by Lord Spencer Sun Oct 31, 2021 6:09 pm

Roma are still 4th.

Their losses came against Juve (narrowly and they played well), Milan (it looked more narrow than it actually was, Lazio (narrow loss, but clearly a deserved one), and Verona (a strong mid-table team that also beat Juve).

They managed to get a draw against Napoli. There is no way he s getting sacked this year unless they fall off a cliff in the second half of the season AND lose the Roma derby.
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Post by Casciavit Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:01 pm

I think Mourinho is past it at the highest level aka elite clubs, but Roma is far from elite. Have you seen their team? They are garbage. Whoever was responsible for compiling the dross in that squad needs to be banned from entering the city ever again.

He still has a good mind for squad building. I wouldn't sack him unless they finish below 10th or he completely ruins the dressing room by the end of the season.
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Post by Lord Spencer Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:08 pm

Casciavit wrote:I think Mourinho is past it at the highest level aka elite clubs, but Roma is far from elite. Have you seen their team? They are garbage. Whoever was responsible for compiling the dross in that squad needs to be banned from entering the city ever again.

He still has a good mind for squad building. I wouldn't sack him unless they finish below 10th or he completely ruins the dressing room by the end of the season.


"Dross"?

I have no idea what you are seeing, but Roma's squad (at least their first team) is not dross by any stretch of the imagination.

From the GK to the top, they have really good players. Maybe they don't have any WC players, but few Serie A teams have them anyways.

Sure, their bench isn't as strong, but it's still good enough for a top 6-7 side with an outside chance of getting fourth if their starting 11 stays healthy and fit.
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Post by McLewis Sun Oct 31, 2021 10:24 pm

How long will he last?

He's on a 3 year deal and from what I can tell, the Friedkins are not rash decision-makers, neither is Tiago Pinto.

Saving an epic meltdown / massive scandal that causes irreparable damage to the club, he's safe for this season regardless of what happens and very likely next season too.
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Post by Robespierre Mon Nov 01, 2021 12:05 am

Differences with Roma under Fonseca ?
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Post by Casciavit Mon Nov 01, 2021 7:32 am

Lord Spencer wrote:
Casciavit wrote:I think Mourinho is past it at the highest level aka elite clubs, but Roma is far from elite. Have you seen their team? They are garbage. Whoever was responsible for compiling the dross in that squad needs to be banned from entering the city ever again.

He still has a good mind for squad building. I wouldn't sack him unless they finish below 10th or he completely ruins the dressing room by the end of the season.


"Dross"?

I have no idea what you are seeing, but Roma's squad (at least their first team) is not dross by any stretch of the imagination.

From the GK to the top, they have really good players. Maybe they don't have any WC players, but few Serie A teams have them anyways.

Sure, their bench isn't as strong, but it's still good enough for a top 6-7 side with an outside chance of getting fourth if their starting 11 stays healthy and fit.


It's a team of rejects.

Most people wouldn't be even able to tell you where half those players came from.
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Post by CBarca Mon Nov 01, 2021 7:46 am

He hasn't really been bad at Roma, I'm not sure why questions would be asked of his sacking. Mind, I'm not up to date on if he's been pulling shenanigans and creating a toxic environment (yet)
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