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Post by BarcaLearning Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:05 pm

For some reason I havent really watched him at the Euros since I havent really watched Spain, I tried on one or two occasions but they were so boring Razz I missed the vs Italy match, only saw the highlights.

Anyway, great to hear for some one aged 18 doing so well. I guess they all raise their game for the NT, but good to know we have a future in our MF.

Not sure about Busquets going forward, my main worry is just his atheticism, not sure what happened at the Euros with him in terms of how he didnt struggle vs a young Italian team full of energy?

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Post by alexjanosik Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:43 pm

@The Franchise wrote:Amazing how this boy, plus De Jong and Busi, on paper, you cannot find a better midfield in the world. But due to horrific tactics, team balance, system, useless forwards and suspect defenders, in practice it doesnt work.

Anyway, tremendous tournament and he justifies all these minutes he plays.


Partially agree. I think in a non Messi team, that is probably the best midfield in the world. In a Messi team, we know the pattern. The 2 midfielders ahead of Busquets compensate for Messi's lack of movement. FDJ provides runs ahead of Messi. So does Pedri. Messi drops into the vacated midfield where he has no business being. Invariably loses the ball. Doesnt track back. Counter. And Busquets ends up making a laughable attempt to recover. Rinse and repeat. In a Messi Barca, we probably need a more athletic mobile DM instead of Busquets to make the claim of the best midfield imo.

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Post by alexjanosik Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:46 pm

@The Franchise wrote:
@Arquitecto wrote:Brilliant performance last night.

You boys have a future star on your hands here let this be known.


Agree. Need to clear out the gutter trash and let the boy play freely.

As good as he is for Barca, he is even better for Spain and the reasons are clear. Players ahead of him who move without the ball and therefore he isnt limited to 1 single Argentine passing choice.


Its ridiculous how generational talents like Pedri and FDJ are made to play as Messi's bitches. Makes me sick to my stomach. Has been the case for a decade now. The solution is to get rid of the problem and unleash the potential of the tremendous talent at our disposal.
I think we have a very young talented squad which has grown up very quickly over the past year. All we need is a couple of smart additions, some exits and we are set to compete for the league. Maybe even the CL. If Chelsea can win it, we certainly can.

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Post by Myesyats Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:36 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:You can find a better midfield on the SPAIN BENCH ffs

Stop hyping up thiago he is trash

way past his best and spain lost because they subbed him in

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Post by futbol_bill Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:18 pm

@Myesyats wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:You can find a better midfield on the SPAIN BENCH ffs

Stop hyping up thiago he is trash

way past his best and spain lost because they subbed him in


That’s a bit extreme! I have explained in another thread why Hans obviously hasn’t followed Thiago in past year. He isn’t the best of Spain’s midfielders as Hans says and definitely it’s a choice between him and Koke with Koke being the better of the two. But to say he is trash is unduly harsh! And he didn’t have anything to do with loss (if you can call a PK lottery a loss). Spain was the better team yesterday and the eventual loss in a lottery shootout shouldn’t detract from how good Spain actually was. He was put in the game simply to be an option in the PKs and he delivered. You simply have made a rash statement in trying to troll Hans!
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Post by Myesyats Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:24 pm

I used hyperbole because Hans did aswell. He's trying to paint Thiago as Spain's savior but he's been average whenever he's actually played. I rate him but his best days are clearly behind him

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Post by futbol_bill Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:44 pm

@Myesyats wrote:I used hyperbole because Hans did aswell. He's trying to paint Thiago as Spain's savior but he's been average whenever he's actually played. I rate him but his best days are clearly behind him


Hans has been at this for three years now. You must recognize that Hans is the biggest Troll on this forum, (with all respect towards The Mole) and not be so easily swayed by him. Thiago has definitely lost something and is not the best MF, but he still is a deserving participant on this team.
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Post by The Franchise Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:46 am

@BarcaLearning wrote:

Not sure about Busquets going forward, my main worry is just his atheticism, not sure what happened at the Euros with him in terms of how he didnt struggle vs a young Italian team full of energy?

No struggle at all, one of the best players on the pitch and played over 100 minutes. Probably only came off because he cant shoot penalties.

He isnt the problem, the pathetic tactics we employ are.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:48 am

@The Franchise wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:You can find a better midfield on the SPAIN BENCH ffs


I love Thiago as much as anyone, but the current version isnt better than De Jong.


Go wash your mouth out with soap Mad Mad
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Post by The Franchise Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:51 am

@alexjanosik wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:Amazing how this boy, plus De Jong and Busi, on paper, you cannot find a better midfield in the world. But due to horrific tactics, team balance, system, useless forwards and suspect defenders, in practice it doesnt work.

Anyway, tremendous tournament and he justifies all these minutes he plays.


Partially agree. I think in a non Messi team, that is probably the best midfield in the world. In a Messi team, we know the pattern. The 2 midfielders ahead of Busquets compensate for Messi's lack of movement. FDJ provides runs ahead of Messi. So does Pedri. Messi drops into the vacated midfield where he has no business being. Invariably loses the ball. Doesnt track back. Counter. And Busquets ends up making a laughable attempt to recover. Rinse and repeat. In a Messi Barca, we probably need a more athletic mobile DM instead of Busquets to make the claim of the best midfield imo.

Agree, this is why said on paper, in theory, it could/should be a midfield of that level. If not the best, then certainly not inferior to anyone elses. Again, on paper.

But what you explained happens constantly. De Jong especially, forced to make vertical runs to use the space Messi leaves to come and d!ck around in midfield. Turnover, no counter press, transition into that space.

Would a more athletic ball winner instead of Busi help? Maybe thats true. I can imagine someone like 2008 Yaya Toure putting out all those fires. But I dont have a clue who that would be today.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:51 am

@Myesyats wrote:I used hyperbole because Hans did aswell. He's trying to paint Thiago as Spain's savior but he's been average whenever he's actually played. I rate him but his best days are clearly behind him


'whenever he's played'? He isn't played. Enrique doesn't play him. Twice now he came on in minute 110 ffs. One hundred and ten!

Enrique's got a massive agenda against him, and has had one for years.
Never mind current Thiago, when Thiago was the single best performing midfielder in Europe for a couple of years, winning Bundesliga titles all on his own, Enrique didn't even have him in the squad!
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Post by The Franchise Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:53 am

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:You can find a better midfield on the SPAIN BENCH ffs


I love Thiago as much as anyone, but the current version isnt better than De Jong.


Go wash your mouth out with soap Mad Mad


Laughing

I dont like saying it, I am probably able to find a way to dig up a decade old post with me insisting he is superior to prime Cesc and we absolutely should never sign him at the cost of Thiago.

BUT.....the Thiago from Bayern, not here today. I hope he finds that level again.
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Post by danyjr Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:08 pm

Honestly, I don't see what the hype is about with this kid.

Yes he is hard working, yes technically he is better than average but nothing special. Passing is tidy but chooses the easy ball. Doesn't strike me as someone who could unlock a tight defence with close dribbling or a defence-splitting pass.

Watching England's game last night, I would have easily preferred Mount or Foden to this guy.
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Post by The Franchise Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:19 pm

I dont know what you are missing tbh.

He is receiving balls in some of the most complicated situations (aerial/bouncing balls with alot pressure from behind, facing his own goal in dangerous positions) and he is spinning out of danger or selecting the right 1 or 2 touch passing option. He is over and over again making the right decision without or without time on the ball, which is very rare for a teenager. You would expect someone of his age to get crazy and lose the ball needlessly.

Also has great movement without the ball. He stays on the outside of opposing midfielders, behind their line of sight and can quickly move inside, between 2 players, to receive the ball. Again, players of his age usually dont have this kind of movement, they often dont understand timing in this way.

The fact he so rarely loses the ball is not by chance. He is finding time and space where others cannot.

I dont know if you are thinking he is the player to give the final pass or what, but I mean, there is obviously more to a midfielders game than this.

I dont know what you saw in Mount last night, forgot he was on the field at times.
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Post by Myesyats Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:00 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Myesyats wrote:I used hyperbole because Hans did aswell. He's trying to paint Thiago as Spain's savior but he's been average whenever he's actually played. I rate him but his best days are clearly behind him


'whenever he's played'? He isn't played. Enrique doesn't play him. Twice now he came on in minute 110 ffs. One hundred and ten!

Enrique's got a massive agenda against him, and has had one for years.
Never mind current Thiago, when Thiago was the single best performing midfielder in Europe for a couple of years, winning Bundesliga titles all on his own, Enrique didn't even have him in the squad!

Yeah maybe Lucho has an agenda but Thiago has been shit recently even for Pool. Admit it

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Post by Kebab Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:48 pm

So Messi makes Pedri look bad? What did pedri do with spain? Same usual things he does with barca against average teams. He plays good against slovakia, croatia and swithzerland and when he faces a good team he gets elimanted alongside with busquets. Doesnt he do same things against eibar granada elche? and you called him new iniesta several times.

In other hand messi carries his team to the final, if he was the problem argentina also would struggle. but they played 5 finals with messi, if we count olimpics and u-20 its 7 finals. Which team played 7 finals with a shit player or leader? or what you call it "with 10 players". You haters should thank Messi for carrying barca all those years. Stop using cheap "he doesnt run" argument. He runs in important games
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Post by The Franchise Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:52 pm

Pedri and Busquets were perhaps 2 out of the 3 best players (with Olmo) on the field vs Italy, at minimum 2 of the best 5. You make no sense.
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Post by BarcaLearning Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:16 pm

Dani so what do u think Barca should do next season since looks like both with start along with De Jong in midfield? If its 3-5-2 thats hardly any excuse for Busquets to struggle when playing for us? Im not sure but it looks like what Spain plays similarly? I mean in terms of how to extract better performances out of our midfield or even the team in gerenal. Its just weird to see if Spain can play well with them two and Alba, but such a contrast when Barca can play so bad at times.
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Post by Kebab Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:49 pm

Franchise, i cant quote posts, i have no option in my mobile. My question is that what pedri did against italy? except simple passes right and left? If you show me any skill i will delete my comment and apologise. Here is the video

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Post by The Franchise Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:10 pm

@Kebab wrote:Franchise, i cant quote posts, i have no option in my mobile. My question is that what pedri did against italy? except simple passes right and left? If you show me any skill i will delete my comment and apologise. Here is the video



I cant even see youtube, im using my work PC which bans that kind of thing. So I dont know what the videos shows, nor can I post any.

What did Pedri do against Italy? Well I dunno, because it seems a "skill" is what you are looking for and I dont know exactly what that is. But I think the vast majority of people who watched the game would say Pedri was very good.
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Post by The Franchise Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:19 pm

@BarcaLearning wrote:Dani so what do u think Barca should do next season since looks like both with start along with De Jong in midfield? If its 3-5-2 thats hardly any excuse for Busquets to struggle when playing for us? Im not sure but it looks like what Spain plays similarly? I mean in terms of how to extract better performances out of our midfield or even the team in gerenal. Its just weird to see if Spain can play well with them two and Alba, but such a contrast when Barca can play so bad at times.

I dont know what system they will use, but it doesnt really matter, everything is connected. Busquets will surely struggle again next season if nothing changes. I think Spain are an organised team where all 11 have clearly defined roles and responsibilities, whereas we are not, we make thing up as we go along from game to game because the pieces of the puzzle dont fit together nor does Koeman (and im sure others would struggle the same way) cant figure out a game model which fits the mismatch squad.

In just 6 or 7 games, its very obvious how Spain should play and who more or less the best 11 is. We went an entire season and we have no idea if we should press high or not, if we should play with 3 defenders or not, who should play as a striker or not. Spain are more clearly defined.

I dont think Spain play that similar. Of course they share some very basic aspects, but look at the movements in the final third compared to ours for example. They are dynamic, players arrive in positions they are comfortable in, they dont ask players who want to play in the middle, to play on the flank or visa versa.
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Post by Kebab Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:23 pm

Franchise, by skill i mean something like this



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Post by rincon Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:54 pm

@danyjr wrote:Honestly, I don't see what the hype is about with this kid.

Yes he is hard working, yes technically he is better than average but nothing special. Passing is tidy but chooses the easy ball. Doesn't strike me as someone who could unlock a tight defence with close dribbling or a defence-splitting pass.

Watching England's game last night, I would have easily preferred Mount or Foden to this guy.

To be fair he did give two passes to unlock Italy's defense, both to Oyarzabal who didn't do well on either.
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Post by Arquitecto Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:40 pm

Honestly if no one sees why Pedri's performance against Italia was so good, then they have not played football to understand why it was such deft skill and intelligence on display.
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Post by The Franchise Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:04 pm

@Kebab wrote:Franchise, by skill i mean something like this





He isnt this kind of player, comparing wouldnt make sense.

in the video you posted vs Italy, look at how many times he receives the ball and can turn into space. This isnt luck or poor defending, he is finding spaces with good movement over and over again.

In this video alone, he gets 2 assists if Mikel makes a better control.
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Post by Superstone Mariomintsch Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:33 pm

Pedri was amazing. Him, Spinazzola, and Pogba were the standout players of the tournament for me. How he kept finding space, his technique to create time to pick passes, the passes he picked, and the weight of his passes; all were excellent. He was very composed and his decision making was outstanding.

His only blip is his backpass to Simon against Croatia, which he took well and played well for the rest of the match. He's played the most minutes after Laporte and Simon. Enrique always subbed the midfielders and attackers and he always stayed till the end; only subbed in the later minutes vs Switzerland for Rodri to take pen (which he failed miserably rofl)

About Thiago, the Bayern version was the best midfielder. But, since he's injured in Livepool, he hasn't gotten back to that level. For Spain, midfield is the area they don't have to worry about, they dominated Italy ffs Laughing Thus, him not playing didn't hinder them that much. If they could finish and if Eric Garcia defended better against Chiesa, they could've won the match
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