Manchester United Part V / ETH Sack Watch

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Post by Firenze Wed 9 Aug 2023 - 16:45

So we're looking at:

First XI

ONANA
AWB Varane Martinez Shaw
Casemiro Mount
Antony Bruno Rashford
Hojlund

Second XI

backup GK to be signed
Dalot Todibo Lindelof Malacia
Amrabat Erikson
Sancho Pellistri Garnacho
Martial

with Todibo (or Pavard) and Amrabat getting a lot of gametime so Varane and Casemiro don't burn out

It looks strong, not good enough to compete with City but I expect to have a better season than last

a lot riding on Hojlund though, Rashford will play centrally quite a lot too, I wish we could somehow pull Kane off for 2-3 years while Hojlund develops but that seems very unrealistic. I still think we will struggle for goals this season tbh. But it feels good to hopefully get rid of Mctominay, Fred and Maguire (gone)

Antony needs to produce this season too otherwise bench man

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Post by Vibe Mon 4 Sep 2023 - 8:25

Sacked by midseason?

Only Amrabat can save him.
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Post by Myesyats Mon 4 Sep 2023 - 11:15

I don't think it's particularly Ten Hag's fault because you work with what you have, but he does seem like a small team coach, Emery-esque.
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Post by halamadrid2 Mon 4 Sep 2023 - 11:39

Myesyats wrote:I don't think it's particularly Ten Hag's fault because you work with what you have, but he does seem like a small team coach, Emery-esque.
You must be kidding. Ten Haag is the one who has stuffed the team with EL calibre players. I mean Antony for 80ME, that wasn't Utd, that was ETH, Martinez, Hojlund, Malacia etc etc that's a bunch of EL players. He wants Casemiro to be a playmaker, pushes him up to staying just by the opposition box as if he has the legs to get back. He'll be coaching Wolves in no time.
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Post by BarcaLearning Mon 4 Sep 2023 - 11:45

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38321998/sancho-dropped-man-united-bad-training-ten-hag

Not sure but Sancho has turned out to be a flop also? Is he that bad that he shouldnt even be in the squad though? I see many fans now criticizing Antony who was so hyped n expensive n starting to question Ten Hag Very Happy
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Post by Firenze Tue 5 Sep 2023 - 22:43

Antony allegations a blessing for us (not to take anything away from the victim)

can Mount line up on the right? lol

Hojlund
Rashford Bruno Mount
Amrabat Casemiro

Feel like this could be our most balanced lineup in years
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Post by Myesyats Tue 5 Sep 2023 - 22:51

Amrabat looks kinda iffy too, seems to me he'd readily strike a woman should she earn it, that is.
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Post by El Gunner Tue 5 Sep 2023 - 23:26

habibi energy, i can see it
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Post by Glory Sun 10 Sep 2023 - 20:38

Firenze wrote:Antony allegations a blessing for us (not to take anything away from the victim)

can Mount line up on the right? lol

Hojlund
Rashford Bruno Mount
Amrabat Casemiro

Feel like this could be our most balanced lineup in years


I dont think a wing formation will suit us anymore now that Antony and Sancho have decided to become non entities. Both of them by the way can feck off. Sancho especially, what a monumental waste of time. The way ten hag stood by him last season and gave him time off and everything and yet here we are. Belongs to the Jogba and Lingard school of spoilt lazy entitled little shits it clearly seems. Anyway hope he never starts for us and is gone in January.
So yea, considering what's left lol, this is the best we can do I guess
Rashford-Rasmus
Bruno
Mount-Amrabat-Casemiro-Dalot
Martinez-Lindelof-Varane
Onana

On the bench put Amad, Mainoo, Hannibal, Pellistri and 3 more somebodies and lets fcking goo.

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Post by Firenze Tue 3 Oct 2023 - 22:49

6 losses fom 10 games this season or something dire, worst start ever post Fergie

team are a joke

ETH is inept, can tell from his signings and subtitutions, we only did anything last season because Rashford was on a hot streak and DDG saved us a lot of gams (17 clean sheets)

Onana is a joke
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Post by Thimmy Tue 3 Oct 2023 - 22:56

I was watching the Real Madrid vs Napoli match, so I only read the live match update for this one, but I couldn't help but giggle as I was reading the updates Laughing Must've been an entertaining match for a neutral.
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Post by Vibe Tue 3 Oct 2023 - 22:58

I watched most of it, I am a fan of Hojlund now.

Game was madness.
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Post by Firenze Tue 3 Oct 2023 - 23:02

there's some psychological thing with the team, look back at the times we've gone ahead in games we concede within a couple mins so so so often its honestly insanity

Onana continues to cost us where DDG wouldn't tbh, but the issues are so much deeper, I don't think ETH has any idea wtf he is doing man, just vibes

Gala are awful too, heard this was there first away win in 14 games lol in the CL
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Post by sportsczy Tue 3 Oct 2023 - 23:09

So... after SAF and 10 managers or so... whose fault is it? Clearly, Man U's problems are institutional and not managerial.
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Post by Thimmy Tue 3 Oct 2023 - 23:10

sportsczy wrote:So... after SAF and 10 managers or so... whose fault is it? Clearly, Man U's problems are institutional and not managerial.


100%
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Post by BarcaLearning Wed 4 Oct 2023 - 5:28

LOL, Gala fking tasary ffs... thats like Saudi level football? At home at Old Trafford this was right? XD I imagine the local fans must be calling of Ten Hag's head now surely? He has to go... n this is not knee jerk reaction but clearly hes not working out? Who woulda thought... think everyone agreed he was good for Man U for a while...
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Post by Glory Wed 4 Oct 2023 - 8:46

A bit of perspective would do a lot of fans a world a good right now. They are calling for his head and I can totally see where they are coming from. But sacking him now would be just repeating the same cycle. No coach I really believe can make it work with these bunch of idiotic players. May be the initial freshness can get them play a little better, but ultimately they will revert to their original level as we have seen time and time again.

Rashford and bruno supposedly our best 2 players are right now probably our biggest problems and need dropping asap.
Individual mistakes are costing us in every game right now. We are creating chances and idiots like Rashford are missing most of them.

He is dealt a cruel hand too with injuries. We have like 4 actual defenders right now who is fit for 4 positions, and that is when I include grandpa Jonny Evans. All 3 LBs are injured and he is playing a midfielder there. We need to just ride out the storm until January somehow. park the bus if thats what it takes and grind out some results because with such a joke of a defense and well Onana ( :facepalm: ) I genuinely think we are going to hit more lows than highs in the coming matches.

Also people blaming him for transfers. I dont think they have been as bad as its made out. Mount is playing really well since his return and Hojlund is looking a proper talent. Onana no one could have seen him performing like a clown in every game when we signed him. He was supposed to be our best signing of the bunch.

So I strongly believe he can turn it around if he is brave enough to drop some of the big name players starting with captain Bruno. Its guaranteed from the upper levels he wont be getting anything in his favour, Glazers wont fuck off anytime soon. They wont appoint a proper DOF as well to help him. So under this shite storm as I said its just wishful thinking that a Zidane or Hansi Flick would come and rescue us at this point. It would be just more of the same.

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Post by Firenze Wed 4 Oct 2023 - 10:15

I agree we shouldn't sack him, it is mostly institutional, hardcore fans have been wanting the Glazers gone for so long and when that doesn't happen and results dont go your way you inevitably end up turning to the manager praying one of them actually can accomplish something within the shitshow.

There's no proper structure in place of the club, Ronaldo was right in that we are a club stuck in the 2000s still, same facilities, there's been little to no thought or investment from the Glazers outside of lining their pockets and yes, we have spent tons of transfers (with money we have generated as a club, none of their own investment at all) but they neglected everything behind the scenes.

and I agree we have a shitshow in terms of a healthy squad rn Ten Hag has to take some blame. Why did we turn down 60m for Mctominay and Maguire? two players not even in his plans, get some depth. Mount may be an alright player but it wasn't worth dropping 60M on him when we needed other areas addressing desperately.

100% agreed on Rashford though, this guy is a huge huge issue, you can find me talking about him over the years and (trolling aside when I may have hyped him) outside of him going on that hot streak of goalscoring I've always been concerned about his overall play. I was desperate for us to offload him when PSG links were heating up but knew we wouldnt. He is undroppable and unsellable and we're stuck with him on a huge contract long term. He's going to be a problem for years sadly, for any manager.

Just rambling and recycling what others have said at this point but honestly I'm getting numb to it, been going on for far too long, club sale seems to have stalled. Need the glazer stink off the club and pray we can rebuild in the next decade. Too many jokers in the current starting 11 and the only ones I do care about are getting old, we have no immediate future.

Hojlund looks good at least, lol.

Having said that I still am not convinced by ETH. We don't look like we have any sort of gameplan when playing or style. Same shitball since Moyes.
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Post by Myesyats Wed 4 Oct 2023 - 10:43

Crazy how Rashford entered his prime for two games in the tie against Barca Laughing

Throw in another coach and he will fail again with this set of players. Big rehaul needed, but without a proper sporting director it's a sisyphean task
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Post by Vibe Wed 4 Oct 2023 - 19:02

Squad is legit terrible. Half that team needs to leave ASAP. But ETH played a big part in building that squad.

Someone needs to say enough is enough, because there are players in the team who are never going to be United level yet they remain year after year and end up starting games.
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Post by Thimmy Wed 4 Oct 2023 - 19:50

Firenze wrote:
Having said that I still am not convinced by ETH. We don't look like we have any sort of gameplan when playing or style. Same shitball since Moyes.


I've been trying to avoid mentioning his name on here, but the primary reason why I was quite excited when I saw that Ole was going to be the manager of Man United was because I assumed he would be playing the same offensive brand of football that he utilized at Molde. He never did. Instead, he played anti-football, just like Mourinho before him. And at times it looked incohesive and unorganized, which made it even worse. I do think the players he had at his disposal were the reason for that. You're not going to play possession-based football if you don't have players who can do it, for example. And I think that applies to Ten Haag and the other managers as well.

Ten Haag's been luckier with the players he's inherited, and they managed to offload quite a lot of deadweight before he even arrived, but I'm not convinced that he has so much influence over transfers that the team building, which has been a disaster for a decade, is his fault. Yes, he's brought in some players he's already familiar with, but I doubt the likes of Weghorst would've been a high priority target if he could pick whoever he wanted.

And that's always seemed like one of the primary issues at Man United, to me. With all of the managerial changes, it's been taking the club far too long to replace players who may have been handpicked by past managers, and although I say handpicked, it's quite clear to me that none of them had the luxury of being able to pick from the top shelf. A new manager comes in and probably has a specific philosophy in mind, but the groundwork isn't there and they won't be afforded the time necessary to establish the type of team that they desire to manage. It seems quite common among fans to believe that a truly good manager can fix whatever he has to work with, but I like to think that we all know that's not true.
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Post by Glory Wed 4 Oct 2023 - 20:35

To the ones who are saying he is at fault for spending x amount of money and is only buying players from Eredivisie, I just want to say identifying and buying players is NOT his job. If he is still doing it, its because the club is dicking around and not doing their job in appointing the person who should be actually doing it. Also if someone's tasked to do a job that he doesnt know how to do, in an ideal scenario what he would do, he would try to do the job the best of his knowledge right, and that best of the knowledge for Ten Hag comes from the Dutch league or players with whom he has previously worked with. If the club fails to do things 'their way', then how can one fault him for doing it 'his way'?!
Same thing happened with Ole too to a certain extent.

Managers are set up to fail for some reason repeatedly at United. And I dont think even Johan Cruyff or Alex Ferguson back from retirement can rescue us. The likes of Rashford and Sancho might throw even Fergie under the bus if things dont go the way they want. Unless and until the club hierarchy decides to finally own up to their mistakes, Glazers or no Glazers at the helm and starts to act like a proper modern football club, there's really no hope for us. The cycle will only continue.

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Post by BarcaLearning Thu 5 Oct 2023 - 6:48

Huh, Im confused... so do Man U hire a manager and then sign players that he wouldnt want? Thats bs. The manager asks for players he wants n club try to get them, or the club will try to get top players period (for a club as rich as MAn U anyway).

I dont think the squad is that bad to justify the performances n results, n Ten Hag has been here for how long now? No more excuses. I do agree managers work get overrated in general, since at the end of the day, the better players u got, u r gonna win more than if otherwise Razz

U got WC players although some are older n rejects of Real - Varane, Casemiro, Rashford, Bruno, Shaw, Onana (supposed to be XD) thats at least some spine to work with, n then some second tier players like Martinez, Sancho, Mount, AWB, Garnacho, Antony, etc, n some Dutch friends of Ten Hag lol... n thats after how many 100s of Ms spent? XD Injuries are a factor, but still... so maybe give him until X'mas n if things dont pick up he has to go I think. Can Man U be ok with no Europe n mid table? Would be happy to see it Very Happy
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Post by Thimmy Thu 5 Oct 2023 - 8:04

BarcaLearning wrote:Huh, Im confused... so do Man U hire a manager and then sign players that he wouldnt want? Thats bs. The manager asks for players he wants n club try to get them, or the club will try to get top players period (for a club as rich as MAn U anyway).

I dont think the squad is that bad to justify the performances n results, n Ten Hag has been here for how long now? No more excuses. I do agree managers work get overrated in general, since at the end of the day, the better players u got, u r gonna win more than if otherwise Razz

U got WC players although some are older n rejects of Real - Varane, Casemiro, Rashford, Bruno, Shaw, Onana (supposed to be XD) thats at least some spine to work with, n then some second tier players like Martinez, Sancho, Mount, AWB, Garnacho, Antony, etc, n some Dutch friends of Ten Hag lol... n thats after how many 100s of Ms spent? XD Injuries are a factor, but still... so maybe give him until X'mas n if things dont pick up he has to go I think. Can Man U be ok with no Europe n mid table? Would be happy to see it Very Happy


I’m mostly speculating, but I highly doubt any of these managers had the final say in which players were brought to the club. Contrary to popular belief, it’s extremely uncommon for a manager of a top club to have that level of privilege. They can suggest specific players or types of players that they want, but ultimately it’s up to their board of financial advisors and whoever else has been given authority on the matter to make the final decisions. Even Pep has admitted on several occasions that some of his players were brought to Man City by Txiki Begiristain, not himself. The two of them seem to have a partnership with a high level of trust between them, and if any current manager in football has the authority to request specific players and have their wish granted, I imagine it’s Pep.

And then there’s Man United. Google Man City director of football, and Txiki should pop up immediately, along with interviews and whatnot. Coincidentally, Man City’s team building finally got onto the right track when he and Pep arrived at the club, and he’s been their DoF for years now. Google Man United director of football and you’ll just end up confused.


They haven’t had a reliable man in that position since SAF and David Gill stepped down, and it’s almost as if they want to sweep it under a rug that they aren’t genuinely looking to find one. I tried looking into their DoF situation back when Mourinho was in charge, because their transfer activity seemed a bit odd to me, and I couldn’t find one. They’ve announced the hiring of at least 2 DoFs since then (that I’m aware of), but it’s like they just vanish after their announcement.


They certainly have spent some money in the post Ferguson era. Some of the players they’ve bought have had specific talents, but it’s almost as if the club is being run by someone who’s playing football manager and doesn’t care if all of the pieces of the puzzle fit together. I’d be surprised if that’s the work of any of their recent managers, and even if it was, many of these players become baggage for the next manager, who may not want to field Fellaini or Fred.. or McTominay. They have to work with what they have. And then there’s the off the field drama on top of it. I don’t know who’s orchestrating their team building, but it’s not working. With their managers all being on short-term plans, I wouldn’t trust them to put together a team for the long haul either Laughing
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Post by El Gunner Thu 5 Oct 2023 - 9:10

the manager gives a list of players he wants (Plan B, C included, incase Plan A doesn't work out), and then the board gets to working on it... that's how it works at every club, stop making excuses for Ten Hag
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Post by Davis Thu 5 Oct 2023 - 15:22

It looks like Ten Hag will be gone before Christmas at this rate. When will the Glazers realise the problem is with themselves and not the managers?
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