Calcio Saga 19/20

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Post by Guest Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:11 pm

s..t parma scored
Lecce 2 : 3 Parma

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Post by Warrior Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:13 pm

I think Beppe and Agnelli parted ways in their vision. AA has changed tbh

I have no proof for it, by deductions, i think signing Ronaldo was not Beppe's idea, they pass over him to make the deal and soon after he resigned (or was resigned). Paratici is the student who did not learn enough from his master. He's just a big spender but unexperienced at building clubs.

So yes i agree with you, the biggest mistake is let Beppe leave, but that follows the corporate path taken by the club since 2017.
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Post by rincon Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:17 pm

JespSwe wrote:
Warrior wrote:Now Inter will reunite Beppe and Allegri. And we'll be stuck with Paratici and Sarri Laughing :facepalm:


so ... question - Conte leaving Juve was because he was pissed w/ marotta not getting players he wanted?
mediaset is a reliable source and they are saying allegri is lined up as alternative just in case lol

LOL - u guys getting stuck w/ paratici and sarri - seriously that is one of the biggest mistake juve had made getting rid of marotta.

also i am curious - marotta left on his own terms and i did hear something like nedved didnt like him or angelli? its more nedved no?

Conte left after saying he had given everything he could and gotten everything he could have out of the squad. Cited that needed fresh motivation after those 3 years. Probably if we had our current budget at that time, to bring top players, he would have stayed.

Paratici has been our sporting director since 2010. It is the normal course for him to become "general director" in all sporting matters. In fact this is the position that he would have 10 years ago at Sampdoria before Marotta poached him along to Juve. Paratici's tenure started with Ronaldo, uniquevocally 2 positive years so far.

Reminder that Marotta attacked Cairo for trying to take Paratici to Torino when they were together at Samp. Then when Juve hired Marotta, he made sure to bring Paratici along. Something that pissed off Samp as they expected Paratici to be their new boss. It is his time finally.

Retaining the structure of Agnelli, Nedved and Paratici, I dont see how Marotta leaving is such a mistake. Not much changed at Juve besides an internal rejuvenation.

The "mistake" part is that Marotta can now go to another club, and he is the best to build a club back to glory. But that is unavoidable.
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Post by Guest Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:21 pm

Lecce 3 : 4 Parma
Genoa 3 : 0 Verona

Lecce is playing this game like w/ desperation and big heart - meanwhile its pretty embarrassing that Verona came to not play - Genoa is 1 man down w/ red and still they havent played good

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Post by Guest Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:28 pm

interesting point of view @Warrior and @rincon - i feel like that shift of power changed suddenly from Juve to Inter w/ marotta going there. I still feel that Juve did make some sort of mistake by letting Marotta leave that easy. Question is would they have made that easier if they had known that he is due to join inter?

Paratici - his credentials is lot bigger from his previous club than work in Juve so far only thing i get to acknowledge about him is that hei had some big name coach in mind (like guardiola, or pocchettino) couldnt get it then settled w/ sarri. Also from the neutral point of view, one cant ignore the fact that juve almost sold dybala whom for u guys have been one of those player carrying the entire club alongside ronaldo. then there were questionable matters on higuain, and so many other players with massive salaries that having heard from juve fans that they really wanted to get rid of and instead club became overcrowded and w/ very big salary to handle.

thats just the feeling i got was that situation could have been managed a lot better. but i can also understand that selling those players is a very difficult tasks knowing that no one is willing to inherit that high salary elsewhere.

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Post by Warrior Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:39 pm

On the positive side we have a handful of promising players and Ronaldo who's some sort of cyborg cheat code. If it wasn't for him we'd lose the scudetto to Inter after Beppe's first complete year over there.

It's great to buy De Ligt and Kulusevski but no need to be a football mastermind to close those deals

I evaluate Paratici's tenure as quite poor. Besides throwing away money what is he even doing ? He's not adressed the midfield problem properly, we still need a revamp. We have to get rid of Pjanic because he overspent on Ramsey and Rabiot.

Now we have a provinciale coach, a clueless team and a very old core. Next season is the most important of all: we must win the 10th scudetto absolutely and we still have CL in sight

It's not to be dramatic i say it sincerely Juve needs to wake up
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Post by Guest Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:42 pm

Parma looks to be complete control - its just last few mins that lecce would be playing their Serie A now...sad...
seriously Verona! they didnt give a s..t about that game against Genoa

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Post by Guest Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:45 pm

FT
Lecce 3 - 4 Parma
Lecce is relegated .. harsh reality for them - probably one of those team suffered badly post covid games

Genoa 3 - 0 Verona
survives to see another season in Serie A

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Post by rincon Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:49 pm

Only throwing away money?

The high salaries and contract renewals for Khedira, Matuidi, etc. were done by Marotta. Renewing the ageing players was a mistake.

Ronaldo, Rabiot, De Ligt, Kulusevski, Demiral, Arthur, etc. are the players brought since.

The only miss so far is Ramsey.

A good difference from Marotta is that he can sell players more easily. Remember the amount of players that stuck forever in loan cycles, that is being reduced with good sales. Best move of all has been profiting from Emre Can Laughing
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Post by Guest Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:51 pm

i can only be jealous that juve and inter could afford such luxury ...

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Post by rincon Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:00 pm

JespSwe wrote:i can only be jealous that juve and inter could afford such luxury ...

Exactly. Singing top talents, and signing Ronaldo, can be evaluated negatively only from a perspective of luxury.

Inter are going through a total rebuild as we did with Marotta in 2010-12. When there is all to build there is a big room for improvement.

As Marotta loved to tell us in the last years "it is difficult to improve this Juve". At this point margins are smaller and the squad is much more difficult to improve. We are going transitioning to another cycle. Back in 2015-17 we had bumps in renewing the team. At least now it seems smoother than before.
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Post by Warrior Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:01 pm

Renewing ageing players was maybe a sabotage act by Beppe while i think of it scratch

He throws money away because we have big cash flow but i feel he did not adress the real problems

Look at the squad man, are you really confident for next season ? We have good individualities but no cohesion, no identity, our midfield plays clueless and don't go for the tackles. Someone must be held responsible for this bland season we just had.

Of course we COULD have success but we'd need imponderables (Ronaldo, luck, injuries) to go our way. This mercato we cannot mess around.
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Post by Warrior Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:11 pm

If we buy Pogba, Jorginho, Sergej... they are proven quality players. 99% they will improve us

Buying Ronaldo was a great move in itself because he excels here... but was it really necessary except for marketing ? Hate to be that guy but since 2 years our team is inferior (on paper and on field) to what it was in 2015 and 2017
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Post by rincon Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:11 pm

The mercato hasnt started yet, we dont know the response of this season. But we already know that we signed Arthur and Kulusevski.

Our RW is a clear problem, sign 20yo Kulu.
Our Mid is a clear problem, sign 23yo Arthur.
Our CBs are really old, or are called Rugani, sign 20yo De Ligt and 21yo Demiral

It's clear that things are being addressed and the squad is getting renewed.

The misstep was with Ramsey. Luckily Rabiot seems a success now, we will have to wait for next season to confirm it.

A problem of cohesion is also that Sarri and our squad play opposite styles of football. That is a proper mistake. Let's see if it can be fixed now.

Allegri wanted a revolution of the squad, he was right of course. This revolution cant be instantaneous. The big challenge is moving Khedira and Matuidi and replacing them with proper improvements. Now with the finances wrecked by corona who knows how much more dragged out it will be.
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Post by rincon Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:13 pm

Warrior wrote:If we buy Pogba, Jorginho, Sergej... they are proven quality players. 99% they will improve us

Buying Ronaldo was a great move in itself because he excels here... but was it really necessary except for marketing ? Hate to be that guy but since 2 years our team is inferior (on paper and on field) to what it was in 2015 and 2017

These are complaints to Marotta arent they? He was the one who directed the renewal the summer of 2015.

How we went from MVPP to Hernanes, Sturaro, Padoin, Rincon, Khedira, Matuidi (omitting the successes)

Pogba and Sergej are impossible so far. For Jorginho there seems to be real hope.
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Post by Warrior Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:24 pm

You forget Pjanic and Marchisio, Khedira still had left in the tank. It was a downgrade but not complete shit as it is now

More so we have done nothing since. It's like patching a broken pipe with scotch tape. Pjanic became a slob and now he's gone. Rabiot, Arthur, Bentancur individually can do the job as 3rd midfielder... but all 3 together it's a Roma level midfield, not Juve
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Post by Guest Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:45 pm

Warrior wrote:If we buy Pogba, Jorginho, Sergej... they are proven quality players. 99% they will improve us

Buying Ronaldo was a great move in itself because he excels here... but was it really necessary except for marketing ? Hate to be that guy but since 2 years our team is inferior (on paper and on field) to what it was in 2015 and 2017


buying ronaldo unquestionablably got u guys a huge fanbase, big merch. sales, publicity, but an expensive one in the respect that w/ so much money going on him - little went in improving overall...
its a good point

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Post by Guest Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:49 pm

rincon wrote:The mercato hasnt started yet, we dont know the response of this season. But we already know that we signed Arthur and Kulusevski.

Our RW is a clear problem, sign 20yo Kulu.
Our Mid is a clear problem, sign 23yo Arthur.
Our CBs are really old, or are called Rugani, sign 20yo De Ligt and 21yo Demiral

It's clear that things are being addressed and the squad is getting renewed.

The misstep was with Ramsey. Luckily Rabiot seems a success now, we will have to wait for next season to confirm it.

A problem of cohesion is also that Sarri and our squad play opposite styles of football. That is a proper mistake. Let's see if it can be fixed now.

Allegri wanted a revolution of the squad, he was right of course. This revolution cant be instantaneous. The big challenge is moving Khedira and Matuidi and replacing them with proper improvements. Now with the finances wrecked by corona who knows how much more dragged out it will be.


valid thoughts on both of u guys sorry i dragged u guys from conte -> marotta -> paratichi...
damn conte can be difficult XD

anyway i think juve had this ageing, experienced but ageing and very high paid players  and it is obvious that they failed to clear quite a few of them last summer - parachi spent more time on buying and getting sarri than getting rid of heavy earners who i thikn gives not mucnh on pitch. he is doing now with purchase of good players but i still think it would be a big big tasks to get rid of high earners for u guys

lets not forget - dybala leaving esp. if he had gone to inter would have been embarrasing and that was quite close to happening. it was because of dybala himself that changed this .... i dont know how paracichi is defensible on that really

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Post by Guest Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:02 pm

Post - Serie A Season Q&A time for you guys ... just out of curiosity

How would you grade your team for season 2019/20? (from 0 - 10) and why
Who is the 3 best players  this season for your club?
Who is the 3 worst players this season for your club?
Which is your most memorable or favourite moment of the season?
Which is your least fav. moment of the season?
How do you grade your coach for this season ? (from 0 - 10) and why
Who was the most difficult team to beat by your club (name 3 clubs and why)
What are your expectations for next season?
If you could get rid of players from your club who would that be ( out of 4 players )
If you could get players * legitimately linked players who can raise the level of your club who would that be (or already purchased)

[ btw feel free to add Q/A if you wish ] cheers

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Post by Warrior Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:06 pm

To summarize my thoughts i make this custom chart
Green: keep
Yellow: listen to offers
Red: sell

As for who comes in ? Top players at peak of their age (25-30) midfield is the priority, full backs is secondary
As elite club there are ways to do business and scam other clubs. Spread the payments, paying loans with option to buy, swaps. Realistically we can trade one of the yellow midfielders to lower the cost, preferably Ramsey.

Calcio Saga 19/20 - Page 8 Juve_m11
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Post by Warrior Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:17 pm

How would you grade your team for season 2019/20? (from 0 - 10) and why 5 it's quite disappointing for all reasons i've said before
Who is the 3 best players  this season for your club? Ronaldo, Dybala, De Ligt
Who is the 3 worst players this season for your club? Matuidi, Bernardeschi, Rugani
Which is your most memorable or favourite moment of the season? Watching Demiral and dreaming he is the turkish Chiellini
Which is your least fav. moment of the season? the post covid part which ironically i followed the most
How do you grade your coach for this season ? (from 0 - 10) and why 5 he is saved by Ronaldo and Dybala, it should not take 12+ months to implement a stategy in pro football
Who was the most difficult team to beat by your club (name 3 clubs and why) cannot say because pre-covid i mostly watch highlights, had a terrible job schedule
What are your expectations for next season? we must win the league
If you could get rid of players from your club who would that be ( out of 4 players ) Khedira, Matuidi, Bernardeschi, Rugani
If you could get players * legitimately linked players who can raise the level of your club who would that be (or already purchased) Jorginho, Pogba, Sergej, Tonali if anything
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Post by Luca Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:43 pm

How would you grade your team for season 2019/20? (from 0 - 10) and why

7- I think that’s the lowest you can grade Juve, given the league was ultimately won (albeit not in spectacular fashion). We won the league, or others lost it for us but either way. We’ll take it.

Who is the 3 best players  this season for your club?
Ronaldo, Dybala, Bentancur

Who is the 3 worst players this season for your club?

Bernardeschi, Alex Sandro, Rugani (seems harsh on Rugani given the limited time but in that time he was a pure disaster)

Which is your most memorable or favourite moment of the season?

Dybala goal vs. Inter

Which is your least fav. moment of the season?

2-4 vs. Milan, team collapsed in CL Final fashion

How do you grade your coach for this season ? (from 0 - 10) and why

7- the problems this team had are not Sarri’s alone. He got the best out of players like Dybala, Bentancur and Cuadrado. His intention is to play well, sometimes it just feels like the players don’t believe in him and perhaps the squad is not a Sarri squad either. I don’t rate him in any case.

Who was the most difficult team to beat by your club (name 3 clubs and why)

Lazio pre covid, Atalanta and Milan post covid. Lazio just owned us. Atalanta plays too fast for our team (by far). Milan had a belief and unison post-covid that we didn’t really.

What are your expectations for next season?

Win the league and rejuvenate the team.

If you could get rid of players from your club who would that be ( out of 4 players )

Bernardeschi, Rugani, Khedira, Matuidi

If you could get players * legitimately linked players who can raise the level of your club who would that be (or already purchased)

Tonali, Zaniolo, Jorginho would be a fun window along with Arthur and Kulusevski coming in already


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Post by Robespierre Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:55 pm

So Conte's lasted just 1 year here .... despite good results ...

Inter manager =    Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher
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Post by Warrior Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:22 am

This one would embody Lupin book 3

Guy does a good job overall but his inner werewolf make his departure inevitable
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Post by Robespierre Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:03 am

Shame because this was clearly our best league since 2010.......

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Post by adun101 Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:18 am

Warrior wrote:Now Inter will reunite Beppe and Allegri. And we'll be stuck with Paratici and Sarri Laughing :facepalm:

Two upgrades, so cheer up

JespSwe wrote:

so ... question - Conte leaving Juve was because he was pissed w/ marotta not getting players he wanted?
mediaset is a reliable source and they are saying allegri is lined up as alternative just in case lol

LOL - u guys getting stuck w/ paratici and sarri - seriously that is one of the biggest mistake juve had made getting rid of marotta.

also i am curious - marotta left on his own terms and i did hear something like nedved didnt like him or angelli? its more nedved no?

Conte wanted to leave at the end of the 2014 season because he felt he couldn't do much more with that team. He was kinda right, they had lost some motivation and were playing like shit (but still winning). Anyway, Agnelli & co convinced him to stay and supposedly they made him some promises, but they didn't convinced him well enough, because he didn't want to extend his contract, so he went into the season with only one year left, which almost never happens. Then he changed his mind on the second day of training camp and the rumors say that it was because they couldn't get Cuadrado and that he even had a physical altercation with Marotta.

Marotta was let go because he had a terrible strategy that saddled us with old players on big contracts (Khedira, Mandzukic, Higuain, probably Ramsey) and we're still dealing with the consequences of that strategy. By contrast, Paratici has spent most of his money on young and very promising players: de Ligt, Demiral, Kulu, the big exception being Ronaldo, but it was a good exception. He bought older players too, but it was from a necessity to sell for profit. For instance, Cancelo had a residual value of 32 mil, so if you had sold him at his real value you wouldn't have made much of a profit. They managed to sell him to City for 67 mil (35 profit) but the catch was to buy Danilo for 37mil, who was 28, and who you most certainly won't be able to get rid of for two more years. Arthur - Pjanic and Spinazzola - Pellegrini were also similar player trades, with inflated valuations in order to balance the books, but with very little money exchanged.

The only big wtf moment of Paratici was extending Matuidi, but I heard it may be a gift for Raiola. I had no problems with trying to sell Dybala and I hope it will still happen. For me, he was always overrated. He's not a creator, he's only a scorer, but he manages only 11-12 goals per season in serie A and even worse in CL. Yes, he had 22 goals in serie A two years ago, but 10 came in the first month. Also, he can't press (or doesn't want to) and we already have Ronaldo for that, we can't press up the pitch with two passive forwards

P.S. Something to make you cry: supposedly Conte had an offer from Milan at the end of that season (2014) and he was considering it. Marotta said about a year ago that in the summer of 2018 he had an offer from Milan that he rejected because he wanted to stay at Juve, only to be let go a couple of months later. As someone who prefers the red and black parts of Milano, I'm disappointed too
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