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Post by futbol_bill Wed Jun 14, 2023 9:34 am

Thimmy wrote:
titosantill wrote:@Turok, i'm not sure where u got any form of disrespect from my post. i didnt say carlo sucks nor did i say they should fire him. out of all his great attributes, i just mentioned my one gripe with him. which was in reference to @perucho21's comment. the last thing i want to see is madrid sign a midfielder and we start playing him at rw. or we sign a forward and we play him as central mid. and carlo seems to love that....i dont recall him doing that in milan. hell if he did, he would have found a spot on the pitch for rivaldo. its no disrespect to him whatsoever. you can like a player/coach and still have a few things you would want them to change (whether rightly or wrongly)


Maybe it's a result of the conversations that have traditionally been held on here, but I also didn't mean to berate or suggest that Mbappe sucks when I pointed out that I've observed over time that he frequently seems to struggle against players who can keep up with his speed. That opinion has yet to change. All players have some kind of flaw or limitation, and I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing those. It would be boring to recycle the same conversations about obvious players strengths.

I think it's more interesting to discuss what can be improved upon, or the extent of those flaws. Mbappe is a top player, regardless of that one observation. It is quite obvious, and I don't think anyone would find interest in listening to me talk about what I like about him as a player. It's also been frowned upon or suggested to be "hate" whenever I've pointed out flaws in generally high quality games that have been discussed on here.
It's fair to disagree with criticism of something, but many of us seem to have developed a very hyperbolic perspective on things. Counter-arguing from an objective perspective may be more productive than boiling it all down to spitefulness Razz


That’s a very good observation of GL behaviour! Either you love him or hate him!

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Post by futbol_bill Wed Jun 14, 2023 9:37 am

Bottom line to me is Flo needs to sign a proper CF this summer!
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Post by Turok_TTZ Wed Jun 14, 2023 9:41 am

titosantill wrote:@Turok, i'm not sure where u got any form of disrespect from my post. i didnt say carlo sucks nor did i say they should fire him. out of all his great attributes, i just mentioned my one gripe with him. which was in reference to @perucho21's comment. the last thing i want to see is madrid sign a midfielder and we start playing him at rw. or we sign a forward and we play him as central mid. and carlo seems to love that....i dont recall him doing that in milan. hell if he did, he would have found a spot on the pitch for rivaldo. its no disrespect to him whatsoever. you can like a player/coach and still have a few things you would want them to change (whether rightly or wrongly)
Pirlo was an am until he met carlo. Gattuso and ambrossini were dms but during the 07 season when milan won cl, carlo Christmas tree formation had them wide at lm and rm respectively.
For more recent shifts. Kroos was a cam for nt and didn't fully transition into cm until again Carlo.

I'm sure there's others that I'm missing but then again. I guess that just goes to show how long it's really been yet I still remember like it was yesterday. Carlo shifting players in different spots has always been a thing. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it dont. But its fine guess. I doubt anyone here remembers capello madrid 06-07 either. 15-16 years sure is a long time. I guess I'm just getting old.
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Post by Perucho21 Wed Jun 14, 2023 11:49 am

titosantill wrote:i get your point, and i don't disagree with your overall point. but signing and worrying about tactics later is dangerous. big teams do that and regret it; even madrid, i can't go on and start naming people who we went sign first and figure out later. i think before any move, the coaching staff needs to be consulted and figure out how they want to operate and know the expectations for said player.

i like ancelotti, but my biggest gripe with him is his love for playing players out of position. which i don't think he ever did until the di maria success in the la decima season. we have to be careful from that standpoint.


It is a dangerous thing but I think its worth it if you are signing a top tier talent. The best example I can probably think of right now is James Rodriguez. He was by no means a top tier talent and we sacrificed a lot just to fit him in. Was he a good player and did we play beautiful football? Yes but it did not get the results we were looking for. As far as playing players out of position i somewhat agree. He wasnt the first one to use Cama at LB but the whole Kroos at DM when you have 80m and one that is considered the best DMs in the future on the bench was stupid. Thats a very fair criticism.

I think, with Mbappe, you have many solutions. Mbappe/Vini/Rodrygo wouldn't interfere with each other in my opinion. They will play to each others strengths. Im a firm believer of that.
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Post by titosantill Wed Jun 14, 2023 12:47 pm

gattuso and ambrosini were on the left and right, i remember that as well. but it wasnt a completely different role from what they were known to do. they were not playing as wingers in the form of figo, becks, overmars etc...they were in that position of the pitch but still putting in tackles. i mean switching position to something almost completely different.

you make a good point with pirlo, but pirlo (lol i hate to say this) sucked as an am; never made his mark there. i can get with that in such situations. i mean when a player is established in one spot and then made to play somewhere totally different. i just like guys being in their best role so there's no excuses.

i hated when capello did it too. he had raul out on the left, which i felt should have been robinho or reyes' spot, and raul sat on the bench with his old self. i get it when its for necessity or the player is struggling in the initial position. carlo seems to get a kick out of it, i remember him saying hazard or modric could play false 9. i almost prayed and fasted for that not to happen.
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Post by titosantill Wed Jun 14, 2023 12:53 pm

@perucho, thank you. you get where i'm coming from. i almost forgot that whole kroos as a dm experiment. i think kroos was even looking exhausted that year. cos we had isco and james in central midfield (and u know those two ain't gonna mark anyone). i would rather use your entire squad to the fullest than have defenders playing as wingers or strikers in the middle of the park.....once again that's not hate towards carlo. as much as i hate the experiments, the biggest success of him doing that was with di maria (says a lot about di maria as a player too).
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Post by Turok_TTZ Fri Jun 16, 2023 11:35 am

It seems that supposedly Carlo is getting real nervous about our Frontline situation. Even reconsidering his own position. I don't blame him. The turtle can flap his gums all he likes. We still need to sign a cf and fast. Kane, muani, osimhen are available today but that can change if we don't act. Let the turtle remain at psg.
We need much more than just joselu.
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Post by Myesyats Sun Jun 18, 2023 2:50 pm

Perez said no more signings after Joselu. Is this real??
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Post by sportsczy Sun Jun 18, 2023 3:32 pm

Mbappe has only struggled in two circumstances (and I use "struggle" very loosely):
-  When he's played injured or returned from an injury
-  When they've blocked him off with 3 players including a speedy fullback.   In this case, the fullback plays him to go for speed outside because he has a CM covering inside and a CB who is being more aggressive to cover in case he gets through.

But even then, the 2nd one is over...  the best example is with France NT.   Deschamps adjusted against such tactics by getting both the CF and the fullback play close to Mbappe so that he can play quick short passes to either get thru or get a teammate through.  So it's no longer 1v3... it's 2v3 or even 3v3.  He's not isolated.

As a result, he's crushed everyone.

The truly last thing he can get better at is finishing with his left foot and his air game (which has gotten better to be fair).  That's it.   Otherwise, he's now unstoppable against all comers.

The proof.. in his last 59 games with club and NT, the most games he's gone without a goal or an assist is 2 games.  In fact, he's never gone more than 3 games without a goal and that only happened 2 times in that stretch.  The stats?  56 goals and 19 assists in those 59 games.  41 goals in 43 games with PSG.  15 goals in 16 games with France NT.  

Just been a beast.
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Post by futbol_bill Wed Jun 21, 2023 4:56 pm

So in past couple of weeks, we are seeing renewals accepted; Nacho, Kroos, and sounding likely Ceballos and Modric plus returning Fran, Joselu, Brahim and signing of Bellingham. They are still taking with Getafe about Soria. Where does all this leave us; front line is Vinicius, Joselu, Rodrygo, Brahim, possibly Valverde. Now tgat Mbappe noise has settled downat least in terms of this year, it remains to be seen if another CF is being persued.

Midfield is set with 7.

CBs is also set. Looks like LB will be Mendy and Fran and RB remains same with Carvajal and Lucas.

Sounds like pursuit of Davies or any other LB or RB for that matter is off until next summer.

Looks like It will be Courtois and Soria at portero.

That leaves to possible exits of Lunin, Vallejo and Odriozola.

Interesting at least to me is today they have agreed to take a loan of Vinicius Tobias again, similar conditions, loan cost .5 M with option to buy at 10M. My quess on this is he didn’t show enough to make a commitment, but are more than willing to give him another year plus there is the possibility of Castilla playing in liga Smartbank (old segunda A) which allows for players such as Tobias, Arribas and Álvaro better competition to improve and impress.

So biggest questions remaining is CF! I highly doubt if it will be just Joselu, but who really knows.

Or maybe it will be this Perez announcement (in 2045)!

Perez announcement about Mbappe

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1329193797977047?fs=e&s=7MtrtK&mibextid=9imq16
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Post by Nivash Thu Jun 22, 2023 12:34 am

Joselu got #14, leaving the #9 open. It's obviously speculation, but an indication that they're probably still looking for a main CF

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Post by Myesyats Thu Jun 22, 2023 8:31 am

Who are you gonna get tho? With Endrick in the pipeline and Mbappe knocking at the gates.

Joselu comes on loan and he's not a top player so probably they didnt give him #9 to take the pressure off him. It wouldnt make lots of sense anyway.

If you get a top top CF now then Mbappe next year will be complicated, won't it?
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Post by Perucho21 Thu Jun 22, 2023 9:18 am

There won't be any more signings unless its Mbappe

The number 9 being opened is speculation but I did hear a rumor that per La Liga rules we have to fill that number

So far no new crazy developments in Mbappe. The scenario remains. PSG want to sell, Mbappe prefers to stay and see out his contract but will absolutely not renew.

Supposedly there will be a meeting in the coming days between the player and the emir of qatar/ al-nasser
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Post by futbol_bill Thu Jun 22, 2023 10:07 am

Naw it’s the same scenario as last time. Mbappe is playing same game, getting free agent, and then bidding war on salary + bonus + image rights between RMad, PSG and possibly ManU and Chelsea (latter two highly dependent on new owners and influx of capital). Highly dubious in case of Chelsea. Previous owner causing issues with not releasing sale funds. I say odds of RMad getting him is less than 50% plus as I said before, it will lead to a heavily dominated left side with right side literally abandoned.

I say, let’s wait until next year to see what might happen, but in the meantime, we need another striker, a competent one, not necessarily a great one.
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Post by Myesyats Thu Jun 22, 2023 11:01 am

Yes that’s true. #9 must be assigned so someone will have to take it, otherwise you lose one spot in the squad
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Post by Myesyats Thu Jun 22, 2023 1:16 pm

sportsczy wrote:No way in the world that a) he would come to Madrid without assurances that he plays in his favorite position and b) that he will play CF other than to bail the team out due to injury or circumstance here and there.

will. never. happen. in. a. million. years.

So how do Mbappe and Vini coexist then??? I also cant imagine Mbappe signing as a CF primarily!
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Post by futbol_bill Thu Jun 22, 2023 5:04 pm

Myesyats wrote:
sportsczy wrote:No way in the world that a) he would come to Madrid without assurances that he plays in his favorite position and b) that he will play CF other than to bail the team out due to injury or circumstance here and there.

will. never. happen. in. a. million. years.

So how do Mbappe and Vini coexist then??? I also cant imagine Mbappe signing as a CF primarily!


They don’t. End result of this charade is, He renews again with PSG. Flo left hanging at the altar waiting for next renewal! I think that Video I posted above from facebook where Perez announces his arrival in 2045 is probably the likely outcome!
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Post by sportsczy Thu Jun 22, 2023 5:19 pm

Marcus Thuram has told PSG he will not join according to L'Equipe.  He is one of Mbappe's best friends and his interest was only based on being able to play with him.   So the perception is that he doesn't believe that Mbappe will stay at PSG.

Besides this, I would suggest trying to sign Marcus Thuram.  He isn't great or anything like that... but extremely serviceable and a 9.  Can also play wide.  Very good at link up.  Not small either.

He's a better version of Choupo Moting, to give a comparable. Perfectly happy to come off the bench too if not a regular.
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Post by sportsczy Fri Jun 23, 2023 11:36 am

So RMC and Marca have got the Mbappe story basically right between the two of them.  

Facts:
-  Mbappe gets paid 150 million euro bonus on top of his wages if he plays for PSG this year
-  Madrid (and others) have also agreed to pay him a 150 million bonus if he signs for free next summer
-  So if Mbappe just waits out his contract and signs next summer, he gets 300 million just in bonuses and he is only willing to sign 2-3 year deals (which several clubs are fine with).

How a transfer could happen:
-  Madrid would need to pay a transfer fee of 250 million... which is 100 million over the 150 million they were going to pay Mbappe next summer
-  PSG would pay Mbappe his 150 million despite selling him a year early
-  Madrid would need to either allow for a 3-year contract (2 years + 1 extra year at the option of the player) OR compensate Mbappe for the extra years because he is foregoing 150 million in this scenario.
-  The wages for Mbappe would be 1.5 million a week if it's a 2+1 contract.  For a 5 year contract, he gets two 50-75 million bonuses in the final 2 years of the deal.

This is from very well-respected journalists in France.

In short, PSG have no incentive to sell Mbappe unless they get at least 250 million fee because Mbappe will not agree to a transfer unless his conditions are met, which includes getting his 150 million bonus.  So in essence, 150 million fee is the break even for PSG and anything above that is where they make money.  That's why the starting price is 250 million so they net 100 million.

Hope this makes sense.  Mbappe has all the leverage.

Will Mbappe be willing to take less in order to make the deal happen?  Unlikely.  He's a businessman through and through.  But you never know.
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Post by futbol_bill Fri Jun 23, 2023 12:24 pm

And again, as you said before, he isn’t in it for the money!

And nobody has explained how he can coexist at Madrid with Vinicius!

I will agree with you that he holds all the cards for now, but the only possibilities he has are likely Real Madrid, ManU (and there only if new ownership happens) and PSG. I lean towards another renewal with PSG!
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Post by Clutch Fri Jun 23, 2023 12:53 pm

I may be a fan boy right now or whatever but I'd rather keep vini outwide than bring mbappe and disrupt that. Mbappe is a great goal scorer but I'd rather keep vini on the wings than have mbappe there and put vini on the right or whatever

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Post by sportsczy Fri Jun 23, 2023 1:47 pm

Well City tried but he said flat no... and Madrid has already agreed to his monetary requirements for next summer.   So the question becomes 3 things:

-  will PSG sell to Madrid given the bad relationship
-  can PSG and Madrid reach a fee agreement
-  will the package offered this summer convince Mbappe to agree or will he decide just to wait a year

My opinion?  Madrid will pay the 250 million fee (or thereabouts).   Madrid won't guarantee the additional 100 million in bonus that Mbappe will want... but will have benchmarks that will trigger automatic bonuses.  For example, if he scores 30 goals, 40 goals, appearances, etc.  It's a bit of a compromise for Mbappe.  But I think he'll do it.

I also feel that it happens sooner rather than later.  PSG need to buy other players and they can't wait too long.... i think this happens in the next 2 weeks.
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Post by Pedram Fri Jun 23, 2023 1:55 pm

sportsczy wrote:Well City tried but he said flat no... and Madrid has already agreed to his monetary requirements for next summer.   So the question becomes 3 things:

-  will PSG sell to Madrid given the bad relationship
-  can PSG and Madrid reach a fee agreement
-  will the package offered this summer convince Mbappe to agree or will he decide just to wait a year

My opinion?  Madrid will pay the 250 million fee (or thereabouts).   Madrid won't guarantee the additional 100 million in bonus that Mbappe will want... but will have benchmarks that will trigger automatic bonuses.  For example, if he scores 30 goals, 40 goals, appearances, etc.  It's a bit of a compromise for Mbappe.  But I think he'll do it.

I also feel that it happens sooner rather than later.  PSG need to buy other players and they can't wait too long.... i think this happens in the next 2 weeks.


Hopefully not jinxing it but yea i definitely could see him in the Madrid shirt in the next two weeks, the momentum is building up and PSG is softening its stance, they're probably just as tired as us on this saga and want it to be over it ASAP lmao.
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Post by sportsczy Fri Jun 23, 2023 2:57 pm

I don't understand how PSG can be surprised by this since:
- Year 3 was a player option and he'd already told them verbally he wasn't going to exercise year 3 months ago
- The galactico mess the club is
- The reasons Mbappe stayed last time no longer exist. Namely, generational wealth (he got it), political pressure to not abandon Qatar before a world cup and Messi.

All the shock and surprise is PR by PSG. They knew this was coming.
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Post by Myesyats Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:08 pm

He wants to fleece both clubs, fair fucks to him

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Post by Perucho21 Sat Jun 24, 2023 12:06 am

Vini will coexist with Mbappe and Mbappe will coexist with Vini. This is why we have a coaching staff. They will figure it out
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