Arsenal Vs Manchester United

Another big test for Arteta

Finally a manager with balls

Best performance of the season?

Great win

Best performance since Valencia last year. Clean sheet, while playing all our best attacking options.

We all know we should have won the Chelsea game too the way that game went. So there's good reason for optimism heading forward.

Clear to see the players still need to level up their fitness level to where Arteta wants it. I still have a few concerns about some players and positions, i.e. Ozil. But a good work ethic and confidence can do wonders in terms of performance and results. Let's hope we can string together a good number of wins in a row now.

El Gunner wrote:We all know we should have won the Chelsea game too the way that game went. So there's good reason for optimism heading forward.

Clear to see the players still need to level up their fitness level to where Arteta wants it. I still have a few concerns about some players and positions, i.e. Ozil. But a good work ethic and confidence can do wonders in terms of performance and results. Let's hope we can string together a good number of wins in a row now.

Özil was basically the best player on the pitch though and also working his arse off. Noone else is anywhere near as creative as him, too.
It's surely other positions you need to worry about more. Right back, for instance

Artete begins  
Always great to beat this lot
Really liked the first half performance
At last that front four together

Some great individual performances too,unfair to name select few
Promising stuff sofar more to come

Hapless_Hans wrote:

El Gunner wrote:We all know we should have won the Chelsea game too the way that game went. So there's good reason for optimism heading forward.

Clear to see the players still need to level up their fitness level to where Arteta wants it. I still have a few concerns about some players and positions, i.e. Ozil. But a good work ethic and confidence can do wonders in terms of performance and results. Let's hope we can string together a good number of wins in a row now.

Özil was basically the best player on the pitch though and also working his arse off. Noone else is anywhere near as creative as him, too.
It's surely other positions you need to worry about more. Right back, for instance

i didn't see it. leggy, slow and doesn't have the fitness and heart to make up for it. He is past it mate, idk how some other people can't see it. It's so obvious.

Sure he is still a decent creative option that'll make a good pass here and there, but in today's game you need all the stuff that i mentioned in the above paragraph that he lacks.

Hapless_Hans wrote:

El Gunner wrote:We all know we should have won the Chelsea game too the way that game went. So there's good reason for optimism heading forward.

Clear to see the players still need to level up their fitness level to where Arteta wants it. I still have a few concerns about some players and positions, i.e. Ozil. But a good work ethic and confidence can do wonders in terms of performance and results. Let's hope we can string together a good number of wins in a row now.

Özil was basically the best player on the pitch though and also working his arse off. Noone else is anywhere near as creative as him, too.
It's surely other positions you need to worry about more. Right back, for instance

Don’t bother arguing with EG about Özil, been a hater for years. Love that Arteta builds the team around Özil, our most talented player.

Luiz was class. Also gave a fascinating post-match interview where he admitted the team isn't fit enough at the moment. It was evident against Chelsea and again tonight. Playing through the Christmas period with so many injuries is rough, especially when the games are difficult.

So I expect it'll be a little while before we see a complete performance under Arteta. The first halves vs Bournemouth, Chelsea and now United were promising. The players seem to have gotten on board very quickly, which is a good start. Now they need to rediscover their form and confidence which can only happen with wins.

Agree our fitness sucks. Nelson came on and was getting outpaced by their CBs.

Hopefully our legion of injured players come back soon

urbaNRoots wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:

El Gunner wrote:We all know we should have won the Chelsea game too the way that game went. So there's good reason for optimism heading forward.

Clear to see the players still need to level up their fitness level to where Arteta wants it. I still have a few concerns about some players and positions, i.e. Ozil. But a good work ethic and confidence can do wonders in terms of performance and results. Let's hope we can string together a good number of wins in a row now.

Özil was basically the best player on the pitch though and also working his arse off. Noone else is anywhere near as creative as him, too.
It's surely other positions you need to worry about more. Right back, for instance

Don’t bother arguing with EG about Özil, been a hater for years. Love that Arteta builds the team around Özil, our most talented player.

German bias from you lads. Says a lot about our team if Ozil is still our most talented player

I'm sure after a while Arteta will see the light too, and find an AM to "challenge" Ozil for the position, only to slowly fade him out of the first 11 and then the squad. He's only backing and "building the team around Ozil" for now to keep the peace within the club

El Gunner wrote:

urbaNRoots wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:


Özil was basically the best player on the pitch though and also working his arse off. Noone else is anywhere near as creative as him, too.
It's surely other positions you need to worry about more. Right back, for instance

Don’t bother arguing with EG about Özil, been a hater for years. Love that Arteta builds the team around Özil, our most talented player.

German bias from you lads. Says a lot about our team if Ozil is still our most talented player

I'm sure after a while Arteta will see the light too, and find an AM to "challenge" Ozil for the position, only to slowly fade him out of the first 11 and then the squad. He's only backing and "building the team around Ozil" for now to keep the peace within the club

"See the light"... as if Arteta doesn't already know Özil. They've played together for years, he knows what Özil offers and what he doesn't. Still decided to build around him.

Of course Arteta needs to find an AM, Özil will be 32 years old next season. Still it's a good sign that he wants to build around a technical player unlike Bumery.

Don't think Arteta plans to "build around" Özil. And that would be a mistake, because we know by now Özil isn't a very reliable top performer, and not the much talked about kind of 'leader' who can drag the team with him by shouting, individual goals, or charismatic presence.

But the things he's good at, he's phenomenally good at, better than anyone else basically, and it's things that can be an asset to any team.

And I have the feeling Arteta feels these qualities are important to the kind of football, and team, he wants to develop, and thus he tries to utilize it. So it's not about building around, but making it work in a team and using your assets.
So far, Özil is repaying it with massive work rate, tireless work against the ball and a fighting spirit that is very contrary to the usual stereotypes about him. With this kind of commitment, he makes it easy to pick him. Who knows how long until we'll again see him drop his head and fade from a game though.

It's also surely about pragmatism from a squad-building side. As  you guys, and Jay especially, have pointed out, Arsenal seem to be overstretched financially, with the lack of CL money hitting especially hard on the sustainability and growth potential of the wage bill (IIRC from these discussions, something like the PL TV money can't be used to finance wage growth without corresponding growth of other income? Or just to a certain %?)

So, since Özil eats up much of the wages, doesn't want to leave which is fair enough really, and there's not much leeway to sign any great player, and anyway any player you could sign isn't going to be as good at creating and assisting as Özil anyway, Arteta's trying to make it work.
And I think his football might work well for Özil.

okay, well said Hans ^^ but i still have my reservations. He's so slow and easy to bump off the ball, but like i said at least he can still pick a pivotal pass

Hapless_Hans wrote:Don't think Arteta plans to "build around" Özil. And that would be a mistake, because we know by now Özil isn't a very reliable top performer, and not the much talked about kind of 'leader' who can drag the team with him by shouting, individual goals, or charismatic presence.

But the things he's good at, he's phenomenally good at, better than anyone else basically, and it's things that can be an asset to any team.

And I have the feeling Arteta feels these qualities are important to the kind of football, and team, he wants to develop, and thus he tries to utilize it. So it's not about building around, but making it work in a team and using your assets.
So far, Özil is repaying it with massive work rate, tireless work against the ball and a fighting spirit that is very contrary to the usual stereotypes about him. With this kind of commitment, he makes it easy to pick him. Who knows how long until we'll again see him drop his head and fade from a game though.

It's also surely about pragmatism from a squad-building side. As  you guys, and Jay especially, have pointed out, Arsenal seem to be overstretched financially, with the lack of CL money hitting especially hard on the sustainability and growth potential of the wage bill (IIRC from these discussions, something like the PL TV money can't be used to finance wage growth without corresponding growth of other income? Or just to a certain %?)

So, since Özil eats up much of the wages, doesn't want to leave which is fair enough really, and there's not much leeway to sign any great player, and anyway any player you could sign isn't going to be as good at creating and assisting as Özil anyway, Arteta's trying to make it work.
And I think his football might work well for Özil.

You’re being a bit technical with the words “building around” but we are basically saying the same thing. Arteta wants to create situations where you can make the most out of him. In his own words: “Özil needs help and he needs the team to play in a certain way to facilitate his strengths more and more in the game. That’s what we’re trying to do.”

Play through the middile, surround him with runners, play two more defensive midfielders in Xhaka/Torreira to protect the back 4. That’s what I meant with “build around him”. And we’ve seen it do very well in the two big games we played so far.

For what it's worth, I was happy with Ozil's work effort last night. In fact, since Arteta has become head coach, Ozil has done more work in defence and without the ball than he had been under Emery. There was even a moment last night, in the final 20 minutes of the game, when he charged a player on the touchline, beat him to the ball, and initiated a counter.

Whether this is just a short-term thing or a genuine change in attitude from him remains to be seen. Short term, Arteta may want him to give his maximum for 70 mins and then sub him, kinda like how he was used at Madrid. He was playing up front during the end of last night's game because he basically couldn't run anymore but had to play because of injuries as well.

Whatever class he still possess though, I think Arsenal would like to replace him. Arteta will try to squeeze the maximum out of him because he's a super talented player who can offer a lot to a team, but he'll also be aware that he limits his tactical options, that he's a high earner, and that's he's hardly young player anymore. Even if he wasn't on his current salary, the club should be looking out for younger replacements.

(IIRC from these discussions, something like the PL TV money can't be used to finance wage growth without corresponding growth of other income? Or just to a certain %?)

There was a rule called the Short Term Cost Control that was introduced when the TV money exploded. It limited growth of a club's wage bill to a certain percentage (can't remember off the top of my head) without extra income (such as CL money) to supplement it. It was basically designed to prevent clubs taking that 100m and doubling their wage bill overnight.

That rule has since been scrapped so it shouldn't be an issue anymore, insofar as there's no longer a cap for Arsenal's wage bill growth. Whether that growth is sustainable though is still clearly a problem they have to deal with, and UEFA's FFP, while mostly a gag these days, is still a thing as well.

So in theory Arsenal could dump all their TV revenue into wages if they wanted to but as a business model that's probably not the wisest thing to do. They would still like to trim some of their excessive earners if possible.

Just saw this:

So, Mesut Ozil huh? Arsenal pressed Manchester United a lot, and Ozil, by our numbers, was more active than anybody with 44 pressure events, narrowly edging out Lacazette's 42. pic.twitter.com/T6NT3miGZd

— StatsBomb (@StatsBomb) 2 January 2020

This is pretty much unprecedented for Ozil.