Manchester United 2 - 1 Arsenal: All too easy for United

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Post by Jay29 Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:38 pm

As much as statistics may distort the fact, we've known for seasons that our defence is prone to leaking goals and the players in that defence are prone to making costly errors. It's a fact we've come to live with and accept and we've always been comforted by the knowledge that we'd always create chances and score goals.

In the last month, though, Arsenal are not only vulnerable at the back, they can't even create chances anymore, let alone score goals. That's what makes this whole situation a very sad state of affairs.

To make things more worrying, it's something of a mystery why it has come to this. Before the international break, we defeated West Ham 3-1 with a good team performance and things were looking up against after the Chelsea game. But since the break...

Norwich 1 - 0 Arsenal. Arsenal only managed 6 shots all evening and Norwich get their first win of the season.

Arsenal 0 - 2 Schalke. Arsenal only managed 4 shots all evening and lose to a non-English side at home for the first time in 40-something games.

Arsenal 1 - 0 QPR. Arsenal make more chances but only score an offside goal and just about hang on to the win.

Reading 5 - 7 Arsenal. Completely mental game where Reading were actually 4-0 up.

And now this result.

There's not a lot to say about the performance. Vermaelen's error, the next of many this year, gifted van Persie an early goal and set the tone for the rest of the match. The passing was poor, there was no threat going forward, the midfield was losing out on everything and the defence looked like it would concede almost every time United went forward. How it was only 1-0 at half time was beyond me.

Second half was only marginally better, with a bit more effort being showed by the players but still nothing of note happening. United got their second and probably could have added a third and a fourth if they really wanted to. Wilshere's red card just added to our woes.

We knew Santos would be a disaster at left back against Valencia and Rafael and so it proved once again. Santos' positioning for the opening goal was awful and he struggled all game. Going forward he was just as useless.

We knew that playing Ramsey on the right hand side of our attack would not end up well, especially with the in form Walcott on the bench. I'm not trying to scapegoat Ramsey here, but he doesn't offer us any pace on that side and when you have Cazorla, Wilshere and Arteta in midfield you don't need any more help in keeping the ball. Walcott would have offered us more pace and penetration, at the very least.

Above all else, though, the one thing that disappointed me was that we didn't even make United exert themselves. This was one of the easiest wins United will have ever scored over us and in that sense it's worse than the 8-2 last season. That was just a freak result against a shambles of an Arsenal. Today was just a routine victory over a very average Arsenal side that's getting worst every season.

I'm not sure what we can do at this stage in the season, but something has to be done. Something has to galvanise this flat and boring Arsenal team and actually get them playing with some urgency, desire, passion and guile; to play like they want to win. Right now, they look like a side just going through the motions and it's only November. There are still close to 30 games to play in the league this season.

I hate to be all doom and gloom but it's hard to see how we're even going to qualify for European competition at this rate. This is our worst start to the season under Arsene Wenger. Worst than last year, which is an achievement in itself in a morbid sense.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong, of course, but we're playing worse than we did after the Carling Cup final a couple of years ago so it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Roll on the January window, I guess.


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Post by SamuelJayC Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:40 pm

Arsenal make their worst start to a league season since 1994, when #afc finished 12th.

:facepalm:
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Post by Wilson37 Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:43 pm

Same Arsenal as we are seeing.. Something needed to change.. Nobody gave a ****.. :facepalm:
Respectable scoreline hiding the embarassment...
Thanks to our good luck and a string of reflex saves from Mannone.. and to Cazorla.. we got away with a poor performance also with 10 men.. score could have easily read 4-0 or 5-0.. and RVP restricted himself to one.. and United were happy not to spend much energy..
The expected happened so early in the 3rd minute.. Crying or Very sad RVP scored with his first touch of the ball.. Gifted from Vermelen.. the first half was same like last 4 games when we enjoyed some decent possession but couldnt create single chance.. Ramsey and Podolski was anonymous as usual.. Cazorla was average.. Arteta had a poor game.. Wilshere too was poor.. and he tried to enforce things better and received his orders..
After that our attitude was just to run out the 90 mins and go home.. silent
Santos was all around the park as expected but somehow got away without more embarassment..
I still believe the problem is in the wide midfielders.. Podolski and Ramsey were totally anonymous.. Cazorla receives no help from these two.. Arteta is too deep defending.. and Wilshere was below his standards..
Walcott was subbed in 51st min.. how often we see that.. Congrats Wenger.. you surprised us.. but Walcott was like the adamant school child who went and stood in his preferred position in centre as if fearing that some one will come and take it away from him..
and the poor away fans.. :bow: singing aloud for such an uninspiring game whose result was known long before.. and neither did the players, coach or board gave a **** to do something..

Mannone - 7 good reflex saves which saved us from what would have been a humiliating scoreline.. Fortunately not tested much in the air..
Sagna - 6 only player who was playing to his usual game..
Mertesacker - 6 decent game.. but could have done better with second goal..
Vermaelen - 5 he has been pretty poor in most of the matches this season..
Santos - 4 as expected.. fortunate to have less work than expected.. poor in attack too..
Arteta - 5 below his standards.. struggled under pressure..
Ramsey - 4 anonymous.. poor at wing.. and failed to come in centre and contribute..
Podolski - 4 very poor passing.. gave the ball easily..
Cazorla - 6 average game.. good goal.. received poor support from other players..
Wilshere - 5 poor passing.. and may be tried to add some vigor to our dead game and ended up..
Giroud - 5 thought he was clearing corner which should have gone in as a free header.. it is supposed to be his strength.. good holdup and positioning.. but his finishing and passing not good..
Walcott - 4 thought would change something.. he just went and stood in the centre..





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Post by Raptorgunner Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:43 pm

Manchester United 2 - 1 Arsenal: All too easy for United Article-0-14A0E404000005DC-14_634x414
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Post by Sina Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:43 pm

only positive was once again our brilliant away fans singing their hearts until last second
kudos to them
scoreline too kind to us thank God for that


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Post by Raptorgunner Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:45 pm

It was not that bad, we scored and it was away from home. We will have many more games worse than this. United was just toying with us.

If Wenger does not win the next few game he should step down.
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Post by Raptorgunner Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:49 pm

We are shit offensively and shit defensively. Wenger killed Arsenal when he sold RVP and Song. He has no Idea what he is doing anymore. The whole world can see what Arsenal should do and he goes and does the opposite .


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Post by Rev Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:51 pm

EL here we come. :bow: (I hope )
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Post by Twoism Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:52 pm

All players need to *bleep* off and get a kick up the ass. Seriously, I felt for 8-2 team last year but this team I cant stand it, had no heart, no balls and no brain, all hyped.

Give me back alcoholic Tony Adams, *bleep* off half assed captain TV5
Give me back 37 years old Nigel who could run 10 feets more than Santos the gay
I dont give a shit now, sort it out play 9-1-0 whatever, just show some *bleep* heart and soul.
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Post by EL Patron Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:52 pm

We looked very poor, played with no heart, no belief. Yanited din't even have to get out of second gear to get the result, Rooney was jogging at times ffs. I don't think we will make top four this season, too many players are off form at the moment, too many are out injured. We have a front line that's no firing and on top of that a leaky defense.

Kudos to Sagna,Mertesacker and Mannone
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Post by Rev Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:58 pm

Can't wait for our game vs Schalke. :sarcasm:
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Post by REWB Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:00 pm

2-3 years ago all we had to spend to be a top quality side was probably around 30mil to get 1 or two top quality players, we didnt. now for us to be a top quality side we are going to have to spends around 100mill on 4 or 5 top players. #decline


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Post by Amar Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:00 pm

I honestly don't know what to say anymore.

Its just sad to see how far we've fallen down the years. United away used to be a fixture everyone looked forward to because you knew our players' belief and determination would give us a fighting chance. Now we've got average defenders like Santos asking for rival players' jerseys at halftime.

Our loyal fans take long trips to support the team and cheer till the end, and their forced to see the same toothless performances over and over. It's even worse seeing our upper management ignoring fans' claims and going on about their business like nothing is wrong.

As for the game itself, second half we did improve when Walcott came on, but it was still pretty horrendous to watch. Vermaelen is a f*cking joke and he needs to realize the only reason he's in the 11 is because of the armband.

Only bright spots were Mannone, Sagna and Merte. No one else did a fecking thing all game long.
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Post by furiouswindbottom Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:01 pm

Team selection was all wrong.

Wtf were Santos and Ramsey doing starting? I'm no football genius but I predicted a disaster if those two started.

Walcott scores a hat-trick...and is on the bench because AW loves Ramsey.

Cazorla scored a lovely goal but was useless all game. Podolski looked like an eighty-five year old. Vermaelen looked like he was on crack.

My ratings:

Mannone: 8/10 Fantastic performance.
Sagna 7.5/10
Mertersacker 6/10
Vermaelen 4/10
Santos 4/10
Arteta 6.5/10 (great first half but poor second)
Wilshere 6/10
Cazorla 5/10 (SO WHAT ABOUT THE GOAL IN THE LAST SECOND..WHERE WAS HE?)
Podolski 3/10 The lowest score I have ever given. A high energy player who looked like a 20 stone 50 year old. Incredibly bad.
Ramsey: AW loves him. I don't. 4/10
Giroud 5/10 Useless. Couldn't even hold the ball up. Did you notice how many times his head was down? Not good enough for AFC, sorry.

Subs: Walcott 5/10 (The wrong substitution...with Utd defending their lead Arshavin was the better option.)
Arshavin N/A
Arsene Wenger: 4/10
Referee: 5/10 (is it possible to play Man U with 11 men this season?)

Stop having favourites Arsene and SORT IT OUT! Mad


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Post by Raptorgunner Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:03 pm

We will lose few players this January, Santi will leave and no player would want to come to Arsenal. We are *bleep* shit, Wenger and Ivan killed Arsenal.


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Post by Eman Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:04 pm

My god was that ever *bleep* shit.

Podolski, on current form, should only be played as a striker. If we aren't going to play him up front with Giroud, he shouldn't be playing at all - Arshavin should be. Ramsey, too, does not work on the wing, at least not against a team like Utd/Evra where our pacy wide players like Theo and AOC have shined brightest in recent times; putting Ramsey out there takes away that possibility and makes us very narrow, slow, and predictable, and considering his presence didn't help us keep the ball whatsoever like was intended, I think it's fair to say that this was a tactical error.

Vermaelen was incredibly poor/unlucky today as well; Santos improved in the second half but a crippled drunk man could have done better in the 1st; Cazorla was poor until we went down to 10 men; and I know he just came back from an injury but Wilshere was very poor IMO outside of a few moments, and I think this was influenced by the fact that we had no midfield presence so he had to spend the whole time trying to tackle everyone and be the enforcer, which he's not.

When things don't work, it's very annoying how we never change formation or move players around. The Wilshere-Arteta-Cazorla partnership was useless today, and we had absolutely no ability to win the ball back in midfield, so we should have tried something like maybe switching to a 4-4-2. Some may say that the days of the pure DM are over, which is heavily influenced by Barcelona's success, but a physical presence in there is key if we want to succeed in the EPL. It might be a knee-jerk at this point, but I feel as though the presence of a guy like Diaby or Song allows our other midfielders to shine. I'm sure that the sheer quality of the Wilshere-Arteta-Cazorla partnership will eventually show and we'll have some success with it, but in the meantime we will drop points if it works out like that in the foreseeable future (although Wilshere is suspended now anyway).
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Post by Raptorgunner Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:09 pm

Eman wrote:My god was that ever *bleep* shit.

Podolski, on current form, should only be played as a striker. If we aren't going to play him up front with Giroud, he shouldn't be playing at all - Arshavin should be. Ramsey, too, does not work on the wing, at least not against a team like Utd/Evra where our pacy wide players like Theo and AOC have shined brightest in recent times; putting Ramsey out there takes away that possibility and makes us very narrow, slow, and predictable, and considering his presence didn't help us keep the ball whatsoever like was intended, I think it's fair to say that this was a tactical error.

Vermaelen was incredibly poor/unlucky today as well; Santos improved in the second half but a crippled drunk man could have done better in the 1st; Cazorla was poor until we went down to 10 men; and I know he just came back from an injury but Wilshere was very poor IMO outside of a few moments, and I think this was influenced by the fact that we had no midfield presence so he had to spend the whole time trying to tackle everyone and be the enforcer, which he's not.

When things don't work, it's very annoying how we never change formation or move players around.
The Wilshere-Arteta-Cazorla partnership was useless today, and we had absolutely no ability to win the ball back in midfield, so we should have tried something like maybe switching to a 4-4-2. Some may say that the days of the pure DM are over, which is heavily influenced by Barcelona's success, but a physical presence in there is key if we want to succeed in the EPL. It might be a knee-jerk at this point, but I feel as though the presence of a guy like Diaby or Song allows our other midfielders to shine. I'm sure that the sheer quality of the Wilshere-Arteta-Cazorla partnership will eventually show and we'll have some success with it, but in the meantime we will drop points if it works out like that in the foreseeable future (although Wilshere is suspended now anyway).

For that to work you need to have a manager not a business on the sidelines.
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Post by The Verminator Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:10 pm

What is the problem? That is what i want to know, what is the problem? Lacking quality? No i dont think so. Sagna, Vermaelen, Koscielny, Mertesacker, Cazorla, Arteta, Wilshere, Podolski. These are top players, yet none of them did anything today (except kos for obvious reason). We have great players individually, but we are not a good TEAM. I'm not sure if a formation change is required or not. Part of the prob is that the players really looked like they didnt give a f*** today. Not much movement going on, players didnt know where to make runs, when to make runs, where to pass, who to pass to. It just looked like there was a bunch of guys just kicking a ball around, hoping for something to happen without creating the space.

I'm really disappointed, especially in Vermaelen. I remember some people comparing him to Vidic back in the day; lately he's been rubbish ,i hate to admit it, but it's the truth.

Anyways point is that i dont believe we lost today because we didnt spend another 50m on more players, it's a problem of not having a game plan, and the lads playing without heart. I'll leave it at that
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Post by furiouswindbottom Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:12 pm

*bleep*. This is your team from now Arsene or I'm sending in Tony Montana.

Mannone
Sagna Mertersacker Koscielny Vermealen
Oxlade Wilshere Arteta Cazorla
Podolski Walcott
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Post by Rev Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:17 pm

You know you're shit when you cheer for a successful tackle from your LB. Laughing

@FWB although maybe a bit radical, a few tweaks and changes wouldn't hurt this team at the moment, we look so out of ideas, it's uncomprehensible really. Mad


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Post by Jay29 Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:18 pm

Done with the first post. Sorry for the negative tone, but these are sad times. Sad

Off to go stuff my face with pizza.

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Post by Eman Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:21 pm

The Verminator wrote:What is the problem? That is what i want to know, what is the problem? Lacking quality? No i dont think so. Sagna, Vermaelen, Koscielny, Mertesacker, Cazorla, Arteta, Wilshere, Podolski. These are top players, yet none of them did anything today (except kos for obvious reason). We have great players individually, but we are not a good TEAM. I'm not sure if a formation change is required or not. Part of the prob is that the players really looked like they didnt give a f*** today. Not much movement going on, players didnt know where to make runs, when to make runs, where to pass, who to pass to. It just looked like there was a bunch of guys just kicking a ball around, hoping for something to happen without creating the space.

I'm really disappointed, especially in Vermaelen. I remember some people comparing him to Vidic back in the day; lately he's been rubbish ,i hate to admit it, but it's the truth.

Anyways point is that i dont believe we lost today because we didnt spend another 50m on more players, it's a problem of not having a game plan, and the lads playing without heart. I'll leave it at that
I agree. We've played badly enough in the last few games that I'm starting to think that we're playing a style that our current squad are not completely fit for. This formation was great in 2010-2011, but only certain players have thrived in it since that time while others have struggled. The easy choice is to blame the quality we have, but we actually have a lot of talent right now.

I think there are two possible solutions: 1) our new players just need time to adapt to the system before we settle down and get back normal, which might take a while, or 2) we need to change the formation. In the short-term, I'd say option 2, but then again we have so many CMs that anything which doesn't involve 3 of them playing could hurt us. We need some Wenger magic here.
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Post by SamuelJayC Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:22 pm

We're only 10 games in, but this is possibly the worst Arsenal side I've seen since I started supporting the club in 1999.

The most worrying thing, other than the fact that we need 90 minutes to get a shot on target these days, is the lack of heart and desire in the side. I only saw Wilshere with that today (even if he did see red). Passion and leadership is missing more than ever.

Ramsey-Giroud-Podolski were invisible. Vermaelen and Santos were humiliated.

Walcott had minimal affect, though this wasn't his fault entirely.

Szczesny, Gibbs, Diaby and Rosicky will hopefully improve us, but my expectations for the season ahead are low.
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Post by furiouswindbottom Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:23 pm

Done with the first post. Sorry for the negative tone, but these are sad times. Sad

Off to go stuff my face with pizza.

Spot on post. Don't worry about it. I never really have a go at Arsenal but things are going badly wrong.

This is not good enough.
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Post by REWB Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:26 pm

People say who are we going to replace wenger with? However, I look at other teams around the world and i see, dortmund, look at what klopp has achieve on a shoestring... look at the shaktar donesk manager. Look how fantastic he has made his team. They are cl contenders and play fantastic football with lethal, clinical players just like dortmund. even the schalke managers has managed to keep players like hunterlaar and add quality players like affelly and now they are even title contenders in their league.

wenger is replaceable guys. This year i have to admit, he needs to go. There are A LOT of better players out there then giroud and podolski and santos etc I could name more but it will take too much time because we have soo much useless players atm. But there are a lot of players out there we could even get for cheap that are better than this crap we currently have. Even braga... did you see them play at old Trafford? Did you see how skilful and effective their players were? Many of our players are incredibly overrated; wengers transfer are failing badly.
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