Anyone else feeling the same?

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Post by eelir on Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:07 am

Since streaming was available to me (roughly since beginning of 2007) I watched almost all competitive Barca's games, even many of the pointless pre-season if they were in the normal time-zone . Before that I was watching whenever it was showed on TV.

I could go on with loosing as long as we were playing to attack, to keep possession. All coaches we had had some sort of a slump at one point or the other, but you could say it was still Barca playing. I don't get that with Valverde. It was ok when he did what he had to do after Neymar departure. But, he had time to rebuild, and he did! It is just not a Barca anymore in my eyes.

For the first time since 2007 (and before that I did not have access to all the games) I did not watch 5-6 games in a row. Simply I can't make myself watch a generic team playing. I am not looking for tiki-taka, just bring back Reikard's Barca, that was more entertaining than whatever VV is trying to pull-of.

I guess it is not all his fault, but as a fan, this season does not feel like the end of a cycle, but the end of Barca I used to love.
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Post by futbol on Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:40 am

Strange timing considering that we are playing really good right now.

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Post by Myesyats on Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:49 am

Yeah lately our games were very watchable (loved the performances), turning it on for the 2nd part of the season again only to get eliminated in quarters ffs

We even played nicely with the B team last night. De Jong elevated our game, we need to sign more young and athletic players like him.

We're not invincible anymore and we have to accept that. Need to be smart in the transfer market and we're right back on track. It's not the end of anything
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:07 pm

I've been feeling this same way since Valverde took over, and maybe a little before too. But it's hard for me to differentiate between how much comes from these teams being legitimately more boring and how much from getting older and prioritizing other things in life.

That said I agree the last few games I've watched have all been pretty fun.

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Post by eelir on Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:10 pm

Maybe I should start watching again. But, I do not think it is due to old age. It is simply a style of play that does not suit me. I mean I often found myself cheering for the opposition as they pressed better and passed the ball better then us countless times. And i get it, you can come against a big team and they can do that from time to time, but not the Betis and what not on regular basis.

EDIT: If not for Messi and Ter Stegen we would be number 4-5 in la Liga this season. That should tell us enough about the style!
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Post by danyjr on Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:44 pm

I watch Barcelona because of Messi. He is a joy to watch and I will watch every game he plays.

Having said that, I can completely understand eelir's feeling. Your team no longer identifiable with a particular style that many long-term fans are used to. The style that Rexach, Van Gaal and Guardiola brought is completely dead under Valverde. Barça are no longer the protagonists.

If you want to watch that kind of football, watch Manchester City. They play the best football in Europe as a neutral.

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Post by futbol on Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:37 am

Complete nonsense as usual.

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Post by Kebab on Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:37 am

Do you really think tiki taka was entertaining to watch? i think it was boring. Little bit danger and xavi would pass it back to Valdes. too many back and side passes. For me the barca with Neymar was more entertaining to watch, after that i'd take this barca

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Post by sportsczy on Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:47 pm

Novelty wears off.  It's a messi-centric team.  Before, you had Dinho, Ibra, Henry, Messi, etc...  it was exciting to watch the transition.

I got bored with Real Madrid a little bit.  Still watched.  But the past two years, my mojo is back because we transitioned... and it's interesting for me to see how the team adjusted to moving on from Ronaldo.

PSG, although i don't like the team, intrigues me because of Neymar and Mbappe.  You almost have to watch that.  Also, i want them to win for the sake of Ligue 1.  That's starting to wear off too and it's almost a certainty that Mbappe or Neymar or both will move on soon... but with the 500 million they'll get in fees, it will interesting to see which new stars PSG buys and how that works out.

The interest will return once Messi retires. Then the emphasis, stories, etc. will change.

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:43 pm

Barca's problem is that Dembélé is always injured

With him in the lineup consistently, Barca would have much more spectacle and the fans would be much more excited

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Post by Myesyats on Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:47 pm

Nothing will change until Messi is gone. Being so dependant on one individual is unhealthy, especially now that he has aged and can't provide as much.
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Post by danyjr on Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:03 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:Barca's problem is that Dembélé is always injured
rofl
I would love for him to join Bayern cause I get to watch you eat a crow.

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Post by FennecFox7 on Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:58 am

@Myesyats wrote:Nothing will change until Messi is gone. Being so dependant on one individual is unhealthy, especially now that he has aged and can't provide as much.


I don't know.. TBH I feel like my opinion is changing, it's definitely possible to build the team around messi. Playing messi in the false 9 role could work.. but you would need tons of changes around the team. Mainly the fullbacks and revamping that midfield. I think its worth it but the question is can it be done.

People don't really talk about this as a problem Barca have but the fullbacks are a huge problem. Semedo is solid defensively but lacking in the attack. Alba is declining. Roberto.. less said the better.
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Post by Myesyats on Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:11 am

The issue is, very often our last resort is to just pass to Messi and wait. When Neymar was here the energy shifted a little bit since he took some of that pressure up front but Griezmann is not that type and also he's forced to play out of position.

Against Sociedad, we were just passing around waiting for Messi to step up but he just wasnt there. He was waiting somwhere in between the lines and the ball rarely got to him. And this resulted in a poor performance because there is no other real threat if the ball doesnt circle through Messi

The problem with that is, the plan consists of getting the ball to him and expecting the key pass instead of creating something on your own. They rely on him so much that when he goes missing, chaos ensues, the team drops back, we concede. Often happens at the beginning of the game, just read a stat we almost always concede the first and then chase the result this season.

There was a time when Messi was injured for a few games and we were forced to play more as a team and I have to admit this was the best football I've seen in a long time.

Admittedly, we are lacking quality in some positions, but it doesnt help if the tactics are not getting the best out of the players but instead exposing their weaknesses.

Now, of course you could make Barca play better as a team, less dependant on Messi but its widely known Valverde can't. There is only one man who could and I wish he had the incentive to return.
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Post by danyjr on Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:48 am

Get rid of your board and that 'one man' will rejoin.

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Post by Myesyats on Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:04 am

Elections are coming in 2021. Perhaps they'll elect a board that knows football or else we'll end up like Arsenal and their american owners.
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Post by futbol on Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:24 pm

The biggest myth, that our board is somehow at fault.

Laporta is the man who wanted Beckham back in the days, Rosell and his Nike connections got us Dinho instead. Rosell few years ago campaigned with Pogba promise. Another hair-dyed marketing hype that would get Barca nowhere, like Beckham. Laporta just happened to be at the right place at the right time (golden generation).

This board got De Jong and Arthur instead. In fact they do everything to get the best possible players. Neymar, Coutinho, Démbéle, Griezmann, they don't hesitate to spend. Wanted De Ligt as well. Doesn't always turn out well, it does for no club, but the ambition to improve the team is there, maxing out the financial capabilities even (as a proper football club should, it's football, not a cash cow for shareholder dividends and owners).

What we're seeing now is simply the end of a long cycle. 4 CL trophies since 2006 with 10 or more, I don't know, league titles. No more Alves, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Mascherano, Eto'o, Neymar. The two oldies Suarez and Messi are the ones making the team compete at the top. The rest of the team is middle class. There is De Jong now who is still very young and Arthur who already seems to enjoy the party life too much. He's out right now for weeks and can't even train because he got an STD from banging hookers. Unbelievable. Then Démbéle who can't play 3 games in a row, probably due to lifestyle choices, too. Barca or Valverde aren't babysitters for multi million Euro elite athletes.

And GTFO with Pep. 3 times QF and now R16 exit will be his CL record with billion dollar City. 2 league titles in 4 years. Before him 2 league titles in 5 years and 1 CL semi. We don't need Pep to max out domination against La Liga minnows then fucking off 3 years later because he can't motivate anymore and everyone is bored of everyone else, according to his own words.

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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:42 pm

I agree with futbol, your board is ambitions beyond mesure, always spending big, always looking to improve the team.

Some of you are simply and still starstruck by your golden generation, which in world football, comes once in a lifetime if you're lucky.

Have there been some bad decisions? Absolutely. But look around, is there any club out there with a spotless resume? Do you want me to fetch you the list of the nonsensical decisions and signings made by Florentino? Woodward? FSG? Abramovich?

People simply underestimate the power and influence of a WC coach. Bring in someone like Klopp and you'll be able to get the best out of Messi all while having a balanced team built around him.

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Post by futbol on Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:57 pm

Klopp is unique though. There is no one else "like Klopp". He is what Mourinho was in his prime but even better without the dark arts, butchering players, parking the bus, psycho games with refs etc. I dare to say no other manager would have turned BVB and midtable Liverpool into (multiple) CL finalists and winners.

Look at who is recognised as the next best coach: Pep. Can't even buy one CL semi with billions of investments into the already strongest team in England in 3 (soon 4) attempts.

So even the next best manager is nowhere near "like Klopp".

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:07 pm

@futbol wrote:Klopp is unique though. There is no one else "like Klopp". He is what Mourinho was in his prime but even better without the dark arts, butchering players, parking the bus, psycho games with refs etc. I dare to say no other manager would have turned BVB and midtable Liverpool into (multiple) CL finalists and winners.

Look at who is recognised as the next best coach: Pep. Can't even buy one CL semi with billions of investments into the already strongest team in England in 3 (soon 4) attempts.

So even the next best manager is nowhere near "like Klopp".


The Mourinho comparison is completely off though. You already subtracted the dark arts, you can also subtract the negative style of football, the need for expensive experienced stars, the shelf life of 2 seasons - so in the end, nothing remains except that Mourinho won things with 'underdog' teams.
Klopp is more like a mixture of Ferguson and Wenger, methodically building up a team, not relying on huge spending, improving players through training, motivating and coaching even supposedly mediocre players to perform their (clearly defined) tasks with confidence and quality

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Post by Myesyats on Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:10 pm

I see fussball speculating a bunch so I'll do too. This board instructed Dembele to trash his apartment and act like an absolute moron in order to force a transfer. This board negotiates with players behind the club's backs (they did with Dembele, now Griezmann and many more), this board burns bridges by acting that way in the transfer market. Speaking of Griezmann, how has he improved the team? Was the signing well thought out? Because they spent over 100 mil for a player they didnt have a plan for, who now plays out of position. Did Valverde approve of this transfer? Or did they just have to fill in the star signing quota? The amount of failed, pointless transfers they made? Do I have to remind you? Kevin Prince Boateng? Arturo Vidal? Junior Firpo? Douglas? Malcom? Paulinho? Arda Turan........ This is AMBIZIOSO? Barca shouldn't even consider these players on a free and they spent big bucks on this rubbish.

They haven't improved the defense since like 5 years. Pique still doesn't have a replacement? Umtiti is constantly injured now and Lenglet is a scrub, decent on a good day.

That's ambitious? Acting like everything is fine and making 1-2 big signings every year? Sergi Roberto is still consistently playing for this club. Sergi-fucking-Roberto. Everyone is at fault here, more or less, but everyone.

How much time did it take them to reinforce the midfield? How many Andre Gomes', old scrubs like Paulinho and Arturo did it take for them to finally sign a decent midfielder in FDJ? They're fucking horrible.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:39 pm

Sorry, Vidal might be old, but he is anything but a scrub. Good player to have. So I want you to apologize to him.
Agree with the rest.

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Post by futbol on Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:47 pm

You do realise that the guy responsible for the transfers, Abidal, our sporting director, was supposed to be the sporting director under Laporta as well? Do you realise this?

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I don't know if you realise this either but football in general is declining. Name 1 elite CB talent bar De Ligt (who we tried to buy). I can't right now. With Umtiti we had a young CB who was on his way to become top 3 in the world and we got him for what? 20 million? Injuries ruined him. Then we got Lenglet who is as solid as it gets without being an exceptional talent. Again good business. There is no reason to criticize our defensive buys, they were good.

Fullback market is even thinner than the CB market. Our fullbacks are all mediocre but I don't see any other top team who found an elite fullback recently.

Our midfield recruitment can be hardly criticised. Yeah, Gomes, Paulinho etc. Paulinho was a money laundering business for 1 season, sold back for the same fee, never intended to be the next Xavi. That's clear. I don't care about that. Gomes, they got it wrong. Arda was a personal wish of Enrique. After Xavi and Iniesta we got Rakitic, De Jong, Arthur. That's what matters.

Griezmann is a misfit on the left, I agree. But he was also the next best buyable elite forward. If Suarez leaves next season, Griezmann isn't bad to have as the main striker. Who is better?

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Post by Myesyats on Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:59 pm

Well, I like Semedo and Alba as full-backs but their subs are 2nd division tier. They failed to adress this issue for years. Digne seemed like a banter signing as he wasn't even decent at PSG/Roma.

How many years did they spend chasing Thiago Silva or Marquinhos? There was plenty of time to get better CBs too. But they signed who? Mathieu? VERMAELEN? Joke.

Instead of adressing the real issues they spend 24543 million on Coutinho, Dembele, Griezman almost entirely forgetting about other areas and later buying some scrub to say "Hey, look, we tried (:"

They've made some great transfers too, don't get me wrong, but to say they are not at fault in any way is wrong imo.
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Post by Thimmy on Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:35 pm

For what it’s worth, you seem more willing to spend money than we do on «assumed, immediate improvement». And that would be a good thing if, aside from Suarez and Neymar, your scouting department/DoF had a better record of finding players that would actually make you as competitive as you were before you bought them. Our lack of spending on established talent has been frustrating, but what we’ve spent, we’ve mostly spent wisely. Of course, the Spanish youngsters we’ve signed over the past decade have been largely underwhelming.

Abidal officially revealed that Barca are looking to sign Lautaro Martinez, by the way. He’s looked like a legit talent for some time now, despite his young age.

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