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Post by Freeza on Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:49 am



First episode is absolutely incredible.

Can see Damon Lindelof cementing himself as the greatest TV-writer/showrunner after this season. Not another person with that kind of catalogue with variety. At least imo.

Regina King is also great as always. Can't wait to see where they take this.

Also find the opening scene to be incredible. Even more incredible that it's actually something that happened in real life, and I can't recall ever seeing it mentioned or having heard about it. Really shows how black American history basically is slavery and MLK/X.

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Post by McLewis on Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:40 am

Yeah I really enjoyed that opening episode. Very solid. It's going to be disorienting for a lot of people who didn't watch the Leftovers and I already see lots of comments from folks who were pretty confused, but it didn't take me all that long to get my bearings.

Spoiler:
And yeah the Tulsa Race Riots were definitely a thing and it was every bit as horrific as the opening scenes of this episode depict. I really liked the selection of Tulsa in general as the backdrop of this show. Oklahoma is very complex state demographically.

Really liked the use of the more famous Watchmen characters as almost allegories or even quasi-fictional/mythical elements.
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Post by Freeza on Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:29 am

@McLewis wrote:Yeah I really enjoyed that opening episode. Very solid. It's going to be disorienting for a lot of people who didn't watch the Leftovers and I already see lots of comments from folks who were pretty confused, but it didn't take me all that long to get my bearings.

Spoiler:
And yeah the Tulsa Race Riots were definitely a thing and it was every bit as horrific as the opening scenes of this episode depict. I really liked the selection of Tulsa in general as the backdrop of this show. Oklahoma is very complex state demographically.

Really liked the use of the more famous Watchmen characters as almost allegories or even quasi-fictional/mythical elements.


Found this reading of the opening scene on the subreddit, and it really made me all the more sad. And I still can't believe it's not a widely known event. Good on HBO and Lindelof for doing this.

Spoiler:
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Post by McLewis on Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:26 pm

@Freeza wrote:
@McLewis wrote:Yeah I really enjoyed that opening episode. Very solid. It's going to be disorienting for a lot of people who didn't watch the Leftovers and I already see lots of comments from folks who were pretty confused, but it didn't take me all that long to get my bearings.

Spoiler:
And yeah the Tulsa Race Riots were definitely a thing and it was every bit as horrific as the opening scenes of this episode depict. I really liked the selection of Tulsa in general as the backdrop of this show. Oklahoma is very complex state demographically.

Really liked the use of the more famous Watchmen characters as almost allegories or even quasi-fictional/mythical elements.


Found this reading of the opening scene on the subreddit, and it really made me all the more sad. And I still can't believe it's not a widely known event. Good on HBO and Lindelof for doing this.

Spoiler:
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Holy shit that's an amazing connection. I love that.
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Post by Blue on Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:02 am

Very solid first episode, we will see the direction the series go to. I am a huge fan of the movie, hopefully it will explore the ambiquity of superheros and explore similar theme.

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Post by El Gunner on Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:45 am

looks okay, we'll see where it goes. Hope it doesn't try to be too intricate and complex.

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Post by McLewis on Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:50 am

I feel like watching The Leftovers (particular seasons 2 and 3) prepared me well for watching this show.

Complexity and intricacy are well within Lindelof's wheelhouse (he also was one of the main minds behind Lost as well) so those should be expected.

That said, the 2nd episode perfectly encapsulates the above, but I think it's going to turn off people who don't like this type of confusing, non-linear storytelling. Personally, I was having no real issues following up until that final scene Laughing
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:01 am

Wait what? Did I read Lindelof? :facepalm:

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Post by McLewis on Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:08 am

Yup, he's the showrunner and creator.
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Post by Freeza on Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:32 pm

Finally caught up... holy shit this show is incredible. Incredible way to make a sequel to the story that’s so faithful to the original. Lindelof got everything right in adapting the message and themes of the comic to series.

Also that last episode... incredible

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:30 am

so is this worth me starting to watch it?

I don't trust Damon Lindelof, consider him a fraud and a con man, albeit a talented one

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Post by Freeza on Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:44 am

@Hapless_Hans wrote:so is this worth me starting to watch it?

I don't trust Damon Lindelof, consider him a fraud and a con man, albeit a talented one


It’s so worth it, man. Incredible show.

A fraud for what?

His only show with full control until this one resulted in the greatest tv-show since The Wire.

JJ Abrams is great at creating a mess for someone else to clean up though and let them take the fall for Molenation


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Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:48 am

@Freeza wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:so is this worth me starting to watch it?

I don't trust Damon Lindelof, consider him a fraud and a con man, albeit a talented one


It’s so worth it, man. Incredible show.

A fraud for what?

His only show with full control until this one resulted in the greatest tv-show since The Wire.

JJ Abrams is great at creating a mess for someone else to clean up though and let them take the fall for Molenation



Meh. I consider the Leftovers similarly fraudulent to Lost

to the point where I haven't watched the last season of it

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Post by Freeza on Sun Dec 15, 2019 4:04 am

An absolute wild take.

This one is much less like those other two though. It’s much more direct. Think you’ll like it.

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Dec 15, 2019 4:06 am

I loved the movie adaptation (well, the extended version, the one who ran in cinemas was too crude even though crude is basically a quality of the story Laughing) so I'll check it out already only to see how the approaches compare aethetically

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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:17 am

@Freeza wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:so is this worth me starting to watch it?

I don't trust Damon Lindelof, consider him a fraud and a con man, albeit a talented one


It’s so worth it, man. Incredible show.

A fraud for what?

His only show with full control until this one resulted in the greatest tv-show since The Wire.

JJ Abrams is great at creating a mess for someone else to clean up though and let them take the fall for Molenation

JJ wasn't involved since S1. It was all Carlton and Lindelof from there on. He had complete creative control over Lost, he knew exactly when it was going to end 3 seasons in advance and had all the time in the world to map out a satisfying ending.

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Post by Freeza on Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:18 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@Freeza wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:so is this worth me starting to watch it?

I don't trust Damon Lindelof, consider him a fraud and a con man, albeit a talented one


It’s so worth it, man. Incredible show.

A fraud for what?

His only show with full control until this one resulted in the greatest tv-show since The Wire.

JJ Abrams is great at creating a mess for someone else to clean up though and let them take the fall for Molenation

JJ wasn't involved since S1. It was all Carlton and Lindelof from there on. He had complete creative control over Lost, he knew exactly when it was going to end 3 seasons in advance and had all the time in the world to map out a satisfying ending.


I don’t know how this disputes any of what I said. He didn’t have full control of that show from the start. That makes it hard to say how much he’s entirely at fault for what happened to the end of the show, since he had to finish something that wasn’t his. This is basically a JJ Abrams staple. Starting something without knowing where it’ll go and then handing it off without telling people his idea of an ending (because he’s never had one. He says ending ruin the mystery).




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Post by McLewis on Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:28 am

I think if you go into Watchmen expecting a straight-forward, linear, action-packed superhero sthow based on the comics and the movie, you're going to be disappointed. That's just not Lindelof's style.

Watchmen is weird and disorienting, but a brilliant watch nonetheless. The Leftovers was in the same category for me. There are a lot of "WTF did I just watch?" moments in both shows for me. Both of these feelings come from being astounded and amazed and not from being confused and frustrated.

A buddy of mine absolutely hates this show because he feels it's too complicated and confusing. He just wants good, old-fashioned superhero action with good special effects. He hates the mystery, the time jumping, and the acerbic social commentary of this show. The irony? He loves the movie.....which is no different than the show to me.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:44 am

@Freeza wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@Freeza wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:so is this worth me starting to watch it?

I don't trust Damon Lindelof, consider him a fraud and a con man, albeit a talented one


It’s so worth it, man. Incredible show.

A fraud for what?

His only show with full control until this one resulted in the greatest tv-show since The Wire.

JJ Abrams is great at creating a mess for someone else to clean up though and let them take the fall for Molenation

JJ wasn't involved since S1. It was all Carlton and Lindelof from there on. He had complete creative control over Lost, he knew exactly when it was going to end 3 seasons in advance and had all the time in the world to map out a satisfying ending.


I don’t know how this disputes any of what I said. He didn’t have full control of that show from the start. That makes it hard to say how much he’s entirely at fault for what happened to the end of the show, since he had to finish something that wasn’t his. This is basically a JJ Abrams staple. Starting something without knowing where it’ll go and then handing it off without telling people his idea of an ending (because he’s never had one. He says ending ruin the mystery).
He's completely at fault for what happened at the end (along Carlton Cuse). They were the ones that decided to bring in JJ, it wasn't as if it were a JJ project that was then handed off to them. And they were the showrunners for the entire life of the show. Blaming JJ for his contributions on S1 (which was largely the least weird season, too) is a cop out.

That said I've always liked Lindelof and didn't hate the last season of Lost, but think your argument here is ridiculous.

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Post by Freeza on Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:00 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@Freeza wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote: JJ wasn't involved since S1. It was all Carlton and Lindelof from there on. He had complete creative control over Lost, he knew exactly when it was going to end 3 seasons in advance and had all the time in the world to map out a satisfying ending.


I don’t know how this disputes any of what I said. He didn’t have full control of that show from the start. That makes it hard to say how much he’s entirely at fault for what happened to the end of the show, since he had to finish something that wasn’t his. This is basically a JJ Abrams staple. Starting something without knowing where it’ll go and then handing it off without telling people his idea of an ending (because he’s never had one. He says ending ruin the mystery).
He's completely at fault for what happened at the end (along Carlton Cuse). They were the ones that decided to bring in JJ, it wasn't as if it were a JJ project that was then handed off to them. And they were the showrunners for the entire life of the show. Blaming JJ for his contributions on S1 (which was largely the least weird season, too) is a cop out.

That said I've always liked Lindelof and didn't hate the last season of Lost, but think your argument here is ridiculous.


It might be ridiculous. What I’m saying isn’t that Lindelof shouldn’t be blamed for making stuff weird. It’s clearly what he wants, and why the show change.

Also they didn’t decide to bring in JJ. It was the studio heads who hired JJ to make the show. Lindelof wanted a job on Alias but got a job working for JJ on a new show called Lost: https://www.thewrap.com/damon-lindelofs-history-lost-show-he-longed-quit-31281/

In general there’s a lack of creative control in TV Series on networks. Him working for HBO was the perfect fit because he’d actually not be required to fit into a ridiculous amount of episodes each season. Fucking hate that format.

In any case the experience on Lost made him an incredible writer who actually delivered the best ending of any show I’ve seen to date.

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:28 am

@McLewis wrote:I think if you go into Watchmen expecting a straight-forward, linear, action-packed superhero sthow based on the comics and the movie, you're going to be disappointed. That's just not Lindelof's style.

Watchmen is weird and disorienting, but a brilliant watch nonetheless. The Leftovers was in the same category for me. There are a lot of "WTF did I just watch?" moments in both shows for me. Both of these feelings come from being astounded and amazed and not from being confused and frustrated.

A buddy of mine absolutely hates this show because he feels it's too complicated and confusing. He just wants good, old-fashioned superhero action with good special effects. He hates the mystery, the time jumping, and the acerbic social commentary of this show. The irony? He loves the movie.....which is no different than the show to me.


I was going to say that, the movie is not a functioning action movie, the dramaturgy is far too laborious and mannered for that.
What I love about the movie is that for me it is quintessentially postmodernist in its cinematic approach and in the cinematic world it creates

Give me confusing, give me complicated, give me weird, but what both Lost and Leftovers eventually deliver is froth and triviality elaborately and pretentiously masqueraded as depth and substance, and efficiently enriched with melodrama and primal emotions

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Post by McLewis on Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:15 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@McLewis wrote:I think if you go into Watchmen expecting a straight-forward, linear, action-packed superhero sthow based on the comics and the movie, you're going to be disappointed. That's just not Lindelof's style.

Watchmen is weird and disorienting, but a brilliant watch nonetheless. The Leftovers was in the same category for me. There are a lot of "WTF did I just watch?" moments in both shows for me. Both of these feelings come from being astounded and amazed and not from being confused and frustrated.

A buddy of mine absolutely hates this show because he feels it's too complicated and confusing. He just wants good, old-fashioned superhero action with good special effects. He hates the mystery, the time jumping, and the acerbic social commentary of this show. The irony? He loves the movie.....which is no different than the show to me.


I was going to say that, the movie is not a functioning action movie, the dramaturgy is far too laborious and mannered for that.
What I love about the movie is that for me it is quintessentially postmodernist in its cinematic approach and in the cinematic world it creates

Give me confusing, give me complicated, give me weird, but what both Lost and Leftovers eventually deliver is froth and triviality elaborately and pretentiously masqueraded as depth and substance, and efficiently enriched with melodrama and primal emotions


You'll get no argument from me on either of those shows. The Leftovers is fresher in my mind as it's been like 10 years since I watched Lost. The 2nd season of the Leftovers fits your description almost exactly and I nearly quit the show over it. The 3rd season, believe it or not, made more cohesive sense to me so I like it a lot more. That 1st season was still the best one though.
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Post by Freeza on Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:31 pm

Proud

Incredible season of television.

Don’t think they’ll do more. Would be great to end on this

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Post by El Gunner on Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:01 am

@Freeza wrote:Proud

Incredible season of television.

Don’t think they’ll do more. Would be great to end on this


so that's it? only one season?

I watched the first two episodes and can't really say i was hooked, but felt like the story was still being set up so i didn't give up hope on it.

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Post by Freeza on Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:37 am

@El Gunner wrote:
@Freeza wrote:Proud

Incredible season of television.

Don’t think they’ll do more. Would be great to end on this


so that's it? only one season?

I watched the first two episodes and can't really say i was hooked, but felt like the story was still being set up so i didn't give up hope on it.


There's opportunity for more. But I hope it stands on its own. In the end it'll all depend on popularity.

Continue it though. Episode 6 and 8 are genuine masterpieces. And it really picks up when Jean Smart joins the show in episode 3. Just watch the first 15 minutes of that episode and see if you'll get hooked.

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