Re: Official : Eden Hazard to Real Madrid

by Clutch Sun Oct 15, 2023 8:26 am

English media would overrate him from my memory. I never viewed him in my top 5 nearly at any point but that's what I kept on hearing from the PL. Tremendous talent though

by El Gunner Sun Oct 15, 2023 8:32 am

Arquitecto wrote:Can anyone explain how Hazard is overrated?

Or are we throwing out that term lazily bc we cannot find a better superlative.

Hazard in terms of raw talent was mind-numbingly talented, to the point its endless ceiling was his own downfall because that's literally all he relied on. There was nothing he didn't have in his arsenal.

He lit up Europe when in Lille and had a brilliant career in Chelsea. I'll never forget how often he terrorised LFC and single-handedly. Why would we call him overrated given his discipline was awful, was injury prone and prone to lapses?

The word isn't overrated the word is an idiot. He was fantastic for Belgium, a generation that failed as a whole for the country but living short of his expectations does not take away from a successful career. Easily the most talented of this golden Belgian generation. Get real.

pls, blow it out your ass... Hazard doesn't touch KdB

by titosantill Sun Oct 15, 2023 11:47 pm

i never thought he was all that even at Chelsea. always thought the premier league fans and media did a fantastic job of hyping and marketing him. cos tbh i never saw what all the hype was about. and true, he doesnt touch KDB

by farfan Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:32 am

You guys need to properly describe what this supposed overrating entailed because I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about Laughing

The media hailed him as Chelsea's best player, which he was. EPL fans saw him as a top 3 player in the league in multiple seasons throughout the 2010s, which he was. People saw him as one of the most impactful wingers in the world, which he was (Prime Hazard led his position in assists, goals, chances created, successful dribbles, and fouls won).

Nobody talked about him as an all-time great or even a serious Ballon d'Or contender. Hell, he only made the top 10 once and that was an 8th position finish after his great WC in 2018.

He's quite literally a textbook example of a properly rated player.

by El Gunner Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:12 am

"...multiple seasons throughout..." = one or two seasons

some people have him in all-time PL teams, or 2010s PL teams... some say he was the best PL player since Ronaldo... when since Ronaldo there has been Rooney, van Persie, Bale, Aguero, Yaya Toure, David Silva, KdB, Salah, Mane, Kane, and now Saka. Just absolutely ridiculous. I don't think there was much of a difference between his peak and Alexis Sanchez at Arsenal, Hazard was just lucky to find himself in sturdy Chelsea teams that laid the basis for him to do his lazy-ass dribbling and help him win two PL titles.

by Vibe Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:39 pm

What Hazard do to you

Saka Laughing

GTFO

by FennecFox7 Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:39 pm

El gunner is right though. No doubt hazard had a ton of natural talent. But he had entire teams built around him, yet had a low G/A count. Even before his injury, I knew he wouldn’t do good at Madrid. His whole game revolves around dribbling with speed. When you take that away from him, it’s over. Spanish teams don’t just let you dribble their players easily. The league is much more technical and hazard wasn’t adapting before or after the injury.

by Vibe Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:45 pm

Poor mans Ardjani tbh

by farfan Mon Oct 16, 2023 4:30 pm

I think you guys are so off it's almost as if we're talking about different players and teams Laughing

You're seriously arguing that Hazard was some type of system player that benefited from a lineup being built around him? that's nonsense. His skill set made him the perfect plug-and-play player which is why he easily adapted to constant personnel changes and coaches with different philosophies (Just contrast the difference between playing for Mourinho and Sarri). He played and excelled in so many setups. He played in systems that left him on an island on his own, he played with good defensive fullbacks who didn't combine well with him, he played with good offensive fullbacks who couldn't defend, he played next to big target men, slow forwards, fast forwards, false 9s, midfielders who provided defensive coverage and those who didn't etc...

What was this team that was supposedly built around him anyway? His first two seasons were spent playing with washed players from a previous generation, stiffs like David Luiz putting in shifts in midfield, and a mélange of old, washed, and average strikers (Eto'o, Demba Ba, Torres). That team wasn't built around anyone, let alone a newly signed 21-year old. Chelsea never had a well defined playing style or recruiting strategy and Hazard was the sole constant throughout that period.

Save for that one season when he fell out with Mourinho, his stats are world class for an actual winger. The only way you'd find his stats underwhelming is if you kept comparing them to those of inverted strikers/wide forwards like CR7 instead of players of his profile like Ribéry.

I'm sorry but using his time at Madrid to question his abilities is just a bad faith argument. There was no "pre" or " after" injury version of Hazard at Madrid, there was just injuries Laughing

. He literally got injured the month he was signed and missed a combined 180 days in his first season. His career never got off the ground in Spain so speculating about what he could and could not have done there is pointless.

If we had to do it again, what would "properly rating" Hazard look like according to you? He was only voted player of the season once in England. Should he have won it 0 times? He was only included in two UEFA teams of the year. Should he have been included 0 times? Should he have never been in the conversation of the best players in the league despite being the best player in one of the best teams? Help me understand what is it that this guy got that was out of whack with his performances and accomplishments on the field.

by futbol_bill Mon Oct 16, 2023 6:12 pm

I agree with farfan. You can’t put any of his time in Spain into the discussion. His time there was a disaster and it’s all on him. He was over weight, out of shape and didn’t like to train. That caught up to him in both injuries and his speed and play. Definitely a very poor signing, probably worst ever.

But you can’t really deny his play at Chelsea and Belgium. I never took him for a top or legendary player but he was an important player and leader on both of those teams.

by Valkyrja Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:30 pm

One of the best footballers I’ve seen, easily.

by Valkyrja Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:32 pm

Saka :ROFL:

by Arquitecto Wed Oct 18, 2023 1:08 am

Man the audacity of this man to unironically slip in and force Saka there Laughing

ye sit this one out.

Hazard single handedly ran Chelsea at times. I cannot say much that Farfan hasnt already as he named the team at the time and it was mostly a mess that quite literally didn't suit the style of himself and was rather regressive. Hazard below KBD is the standard definition of recency bias, at its finest. There is a difference between arguing for raw talent and performances as by that logic Ronaldinho is the all time best Brazilian given his raw talent but is nowhere near, because like Eden who waa addicted to Döner Kebabs he took his career less seriously in his actual prime.

Psychology behind the irrational Hazard assassination here is a reflection most could not stand how talented he was and in a rather unlikable team like Chelsea. He himself just wasn't very likeable on field the way he toyed with defences and stole matches from the grasp. There is a lesser said phenomenon of many waiting for players to go over the hill or begin to fail and this is an example of it and I cannot tell one how indifferent I am to him given he has nothing to do with any team I support.

Shame his RM time was a disaster as Zizou above all was endless speaking of Hazard Hazard Hazard for years yet he arrived a half serious dork in the worlds largest club and had the audacity to be the way he did.

Retiring at 32.... Not exactly old by any means.

by titosantill Fri Oct 20, 2023 12:56 am

i always preferred Willian. And i became even more against him joining us after barcelona beat them in 2015/16

by El Gunner Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:35 am

Arquitecto wrote:Man the audacity of this man to unironically slip in and force Saka there ye sit this one out.

Hazard single handedly ran Chelsea at times. I cannot say much that Farfan hasnt already as he named the team at the time and it was mostly a mess that quite literally didn't suit the style of himself and was rather regressive. Hazard below KBD is the standard definition of recency bias, at its finest. There is a difference between arguing for raw talent and performances as by that logic Ronaldinho is the all time best Brazilian given his raw talent but is nowhere near, because like Eden who waa addicted to Döner Kebabs he took his career less seriously in his actual prime.

Psychology behind the irrational Hazard assassination here is a reflection most could not stand how talented he was and in a rather unlikable team like Chelsea. He himself just wasn't very likeable on field the way he toyed with defences and stole matches from the grasp. There is a lesser said phenomenon of many waiting for players to go over the hill or begin to fail and this is an example of it and I cannot tell one how indifferent I am to him given he has nothing to do with any team I support.

Shame his RM time was a disaster as Zizou above all was endless speaking of Hazard Hazard Hazard for years yet he arrived a half serious dork in the worlds largest club and had the audacity to be the way he did.

Retiring at 32.... Not exactly old by any means.

nah dude either your understanding of football is handicapped or you just have a Hazard hard-on for some reason.

laugh all you want but Saka moves mountains and carries a heavier load than Hazard ever did. Their G/A output is pretty much similar pound for pound while Saka hasn't hit his peak yet, and is a much more sturdier and effective player allround already. The only thing separating them in the eye of many is Hazard having won a PL player of the season award which Saka would have basically done if it wasn't for Pep and Haaland last season.

by El Gunner Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:44 am

farfan wrote:I think you guys are so off it's almost as if we're talking about different players and teams You're seriously arguing that Hazard was some type of system player that benefited from a lineup being built around him? that's nonsense. His skill set made him the perfect plug-and-play player which is why he easily adapted to constant personnel changes and coaches with different philosophies (Just contrast the difference between playing for Mourinho and Sarri). He played and excelled in so many setups. He played in systems that left him on an island on his own, he played with good defensive fullbacks who didn't combine well with him, he played with good offensive fullbacks who couldn't defend, he played next to big target men, slow forwards, fast forwards, false 9s, midfielders who provided defensive coverage and those who didn't etc...

What was this team that was supposedly built around him anyway? His first two seasons were spent playing with washed players from a previous generation, stiffs like David Luiz putting in shifts in midfield, and a mélange of old, washed, and average strikers (Eto'o, Demba Ba, Torres). That team wasn't built around anyone, let alone a newly signed 21-year old. Chelsea never had a well defined playing style or recruiting strategy and Hazard was the sole constant throughout that period.

Save for that one season when he fell out with Mourinho, his stats are world class for an actual winger. The only way you'd find his stats underwhelming is if you kept comparing them to those of inverted strikers/wide forwards like CR7 instead of players of his profile like Ribéry.

I'm sorry but using his time at Madrid to question his abilities is just a bad faith argument. There was no "pre" or " after" injury version of Hazard at Madrid, there was just injuries . He literally got injured the month he was signed and missed a combined 180 days in his first season. His career never got off the ground in Spain so speculating about what he could and could not have done there is pointless.

If we had to do it again, what would "properly rating" Hazard look like according to you? He was only voted player of the season once in England. Should he have won it 0 times? He was only included in two UEFA teams of the year. Should he have been included 0 times? Should he have never been in the conversation of the best players in the league despite being the best player in one of the best teams? Help me understand what is it that this guy got that was out of whack with his performances and accomplishments on the field.

never said he was a system player... i actually agree with you, he is a plug-and-play player, a mercenary... that just found himself in the right setup where he could get away with flamboyant dribbling for one or two seasons.. it's no coincidence that as soon as Chelsea's team identity of defensive sturdiness declined, his G/A output also declined/became wildly inconsistent

don't get me wrong, he was nice to watch at his best in that right setup for him, he had a killer instinct in him when his confidence was high... but he was wildly overrated in that he was never nearly consistent enough... and he wouldn't have prospered as much as he did in those one or two seasons in just about any other environment or setup

you need to have a fine understanding of the flow of the game and the overall player capabilities and mental fortitude to understand this

by Blue Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:18 am

farfan wrote:I think you guys are so off it's almost as if we're talking about different players and teams .

Literally, i have seen so many talented players flop at Chelsea and talent die. Including Salah and KDB. I personally think they have went on to have better careers.

I have seen so many managers and players come and go, i would really like to know what is this system and setup some are talking about. Cause i have watched Chelsea religiously for over 20 years. I have no evidence of it. Chelsea is a not an environment for players to thrive. We all know that and rival fans point that out correctly Laughing

The fact Hazard had such a brilliant career at Chelsea, speaks volume of his individual ability and his talent is bulletproof.

by Varnagel Wed Feb 07, 2024 10:50 pm

Eden Hazard: "Lionel Messi is the only player I've told myself 'He's better than me'. I loved watching him at Barca. Messi is the GOAT. Cristiano Ronaldo is a bigger football legend than me. In terms of pure football, CR7 isn't a better player than me. Neymar, maybe. Afterwards, not better than me."

Eden Hazard a annoncé sa retraite il y a quatre mois. Aujourd'hui installé à Madrid, le magicien belge de 33 ans revient, avec un franc-parler déconcertant, sur celui qu'il a toujours été et celui qu'il n'a jamais voulu être. https://t.co/yScryjl4MH pic.twitter.com/4kfvnI8Kbd
— L'ÉQUIPE (@lequipe) February 3, 2024

The full interview in English

Spoiler:

by Myesyats Wed Feb 07, 2024 11:38 pm

He must value dribbling ability a lot if he thinks Neymar was better than him but CR wasn't.

by Thimmy Thu Feb 08, 2024 12:05 am

Myesyats wrote:He must value dribbling ability a lot if he thinks Neymar was better than him but CR wasn't.

I was thinking the same thing. Most people value dribbling a lot, though. Probably moreso than productivity in a lot of cases. We watch the sport for entertainment, after all.

by futbol_bill Thu Feb 08, 2024 12:38 am

My god, so much wrong with him in the interview. I’ve lost all respect for him.

by titosantill Thu Feb 08, 2024 1:26 am

what does "pure football" mean?

by BarcaLearning Thu Feb 08, 2024 5:12 am

Think its nothing new, a lot of players said CR is more of a physical beast n goal scoring, rather than so called 'pure footballer' in terms of ability with his feet n the ball rather than able to jump 5 feet high lol, able to control games, create chances, the interplay with teammates, etc. Not saying CR isnt a great footballer, but I think its not hard to understand his meaning?

Not everyone is a superhuman n thinks football is above everything... think hes more happy with being a more normal person which includes being lazy at times n enjoying life, especially when u have earned so much money etc...

by Varnagel Thu Feb 08, 2024 5:30 am

titosantill wrote:what does "pure football" mean?

Pure natural footballing talent I assume

by Arquitecto Thu Feb 08, 2024 10:16 am

He aint wrong.

by El Gunner Thu Feb 08, 2024 11:19 am

BarcaLearning wrote:Think its nothing new, a lot of players said CR is more of a physical beast n goal scoring, rather than so called 'pure footballer' in terms of ability with his feet n the ball rather than able to jump 5 feet high lol, able to control games, create chances, the interplay with teammates, etc. Not saying CR isnt a great footballer, but I think its not hard to understand his meaning?

Not everyone is a superhuman n thinks football is above everything... think hes more happy with being a more normal person which includes being lazy at times n enjoying life, especially when u have earned so much money etc...

yup.. the insane money in the game also makes it easier for modern players to just become very comfortable and not push themselves further. Also they're less likely to play hard all the time and go into challenges because they don't want a leg break that could prevent them from getting their next juicy contract. These are just facts. Not everyone will have Mamba mentality.

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