Real Refdrid, Real Uefadirt, different names, same schemes.

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Post by Myesyats Tue Apr 23, 2024 8:14 pm

Lets not divert our attention with corny wisecrakers from the blatant corruption that goes on in broad daylight, interesting that Soto Grado personally requested to be the ref for clasico.Also interesting that he was born right outside of Madrid.

Also interesting that Soto Grado is not new with this. In the Madrid derby, he blatantly favored RM as well: https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/10mrnzz/compilation_of_all_soto_grados_controversial/

And 3 months ago he refused to send off Rodrygo vs Las Palmas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoLgeg5z1uY

He is a RM emissary Laughing

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Post by Myesyats Tue Apr 23, 2024 8:20 pm

Here there are ref mistakes that resulted in barca dropping 11 pts this season: https://www.reddit.com/r/Barca/comments/1ca7lsx/mundodeportivo_all_the_refereeing_errors_that/

Interestingly, some of the most blatant ones come in the very 1ST fixture in August from none other than, CESAR SOTO GRADO.
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Post by Clutch Tue Apr 23, 2024 8:54 pm

I would say that this is normally what fans do when their team have absolutely nothing to play for the rest of the season but this is normal Barca fan behavior. They could be winning the trebel and their fans would be bringing up games from August Laughing

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Post by futbol_bill Tue Apr 23, 2024 9:28 pm

They are a club and fan base of perpetual whiners. No matter how much evidence there is contrary to their beliefs, they still keep going on and on!

Basic question, if there is so much corruption with Madrid, how come they have never been charged?

And yet nothing said about their club being the one that was charged? They will say, but they were not found guilty, and yes that is true, but only because they never found the smoking gun, but there was lots of evidence.
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Post by Pedram Tue Apr 23, 2024 11:52 pm

Clutch wrote:I would say that this is normally what fans do when their team have absolutely nothing to play for the rest of the season but this is normal Barca fan behavior. They could be winning the trebel and their fans would be bringing up games from August Laughing

They can't accept the fact that they are just shit. Laughing

Gotta get used to this new normal Barca bros, you had your golden age with Messi and the friends and now it's back to mediocrity.
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Post by Myesyats Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:18 am

futbol_bill wrote:They are a club and fan base of perpetual whiners. No matter how much evidence there is contrary to their beliefs, they still keep going on and on!

Basic question, if there is so much corruption with Madrid, how come they have never been charged?

And yet nothing said about their club being the one that was charged? They will say, but they were not found guilty, and yes that is true, but only because they never found the smoking gun, but there was lots of evidence.

I did not say it was corruption (currently). There may not be any bribery involved. My assessment is that there is a combination of things:

1. most refs are biased toward Madrid (either they were born in Madrid/just outside of Madrid or they prefer the club over others) and they are not neutral, due to preference and/or political disparities involving catalunya. Barca is a symbol of independence which Spaniards dont like. They dont like a strong, winning Barca.
2. The league was biased toward Madrid in all aspects ever since its inception due to general Franco's influence.
3. It is not only against Barca but against all clubs including Atletico, local Real rivals. Barca is not the only victim, they just happen to be on the opposing side of the field.

4. You like to say "but how is the league biased toward Madrid if Barca won more leagues in the last 15 years or so", but the answer is simple: Messi. His ability was beyond anything we've ever seen so much so that he conquered not only a great team but also the entire machinery behind it. It is now ever more evident without Messi to score a hattrick every game to counter the bias.

5. The entire point of bringing up games from August is to show that this is not limited to any single game or El Clasico for that matter, but starts from the very 1st fixture and continues regularly throughout the season. And it is an interesting case because our ref for the 1st game was SOTO GRADO, and he made very big obvious errors. In Janury none other than SOTO GRADO personally requested to be ref for clasico. Clearly, he had a task at hand to finish.

6. If you look at Atletico fanbase they will attest to this but they dont have a big English-speaking fanbase so you usually dont hear about it. They have been rolled over for years but they are/were usually way behind in the title race to bother.

7. The entire point of bringing up the failed Negreira case whenever it is suitable is to further the bias. Any ref who now  whistles in favor of Barca, even if rightly, is afraid to be targeted as corrupted. Madrid controls the media narrative. I would say out of over 10 penalties this season they maybe gave us 2. THey are afraid to give them to us.


I never said this is the only issue that is holding Barca back. There is a myriad of problems at the club: financial, mentality-wise, transfer policy-wise and so forth. This is just another issue stacked upon another. If it is true that Barca transferred money to Negreira to counter the bias and level the playing field, it is retarded and not the way to solve this problem. I assume the logic is that they, allegedly, wanted to limit the allocation of refs with Madrid bias to their fixtures but obviously that would not address the issue at its heart and core. I am now ready to apologize to Harmonica. He saw it all through a neutral lense. He was never a Barca fan, only a Messi enjoyer and saw all the injustice that occured all the while Messi performed like Batman in a world of Jokers. Kudos.
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Post by futbol_bill Wed Apr 24, 2024 1:26 pm

I will reply to your first point, as all the others are just extensions of the same point.

For every ref you say is biased towards RMad, we could name two that are biased towards barca! There is definitely bias in the liga, but it goes both ways. For that matter, in reference to your Catalan bias, most of Spain is anti the big city guys, i.e. Madrid. The other obvious fact you are missing is there is huge incompetence in referring in la liga. And the guy, your team helped vote in, Tebas, refuses to acknowledge it, let alone do anything about it.
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Post by farfan Wed Apr 24, 2024 1:59 pm

1- A lot of refs are from Spain's largest metropolitan area, more news at 11.

2-
What does this mean? This gets repeated so much that Barça fans don't even feel the need to substantiate these claims anymore. Somehow, Franco hopping on the Madrid bandwagon after their European Cup success and using them as a symbol of Spanish prestige on the international stage has been turned into " Madrid was successful BECAUSE of Franco"

The funny thing is that Barça was immensely successful during Franco's era and was pretty much neck and neck with Madrid during that period:

Barcelona between 1939 and 1975: 22 domestic titles
Madrid between 1939 and 1975: 22 domestic titles Laughing

Where Madrid separated themselves from Barcelona was the Champions League, where Madrid won 6 titles to Barça's 0. Bizarrely, Catalans also attempt to chalk this success up to some vague Franco influence because apparently we're supposed to believe this isolated dictator had immense influence in what was largely a French and Swiss dominated UEFA.

The bottom line is that Madrid did significantly better than you in competitions where Franco could not have had any influence and in competitions that were supposedly rigged in Madrid's favor, you won just as many titles as them Laughing Funnily enough this trend continues to this day. Despite your contant complaining about bias and corruption in Spain, the competition where Madrid is still light years ahead of you takes place outside of Spain (Champions League)

3. it's par for the course for smaller teams to feel that way about their bigger city rival. Th It's how pre-Arab money city fans felt about United, it's how smaller London clubs feel about Arsenal and Spurs, it's how Espanyol feels about you. I'm not sure how this is evidence for anything.

4. It's not just Messi though. During that period you went multiple seasons without conceding a SINGLE penalty or having a single player sent off. You also had the most penalties whistled in your favor for several consecutive years. If refs had it for you you wouldn't be leading the league in all these categories.

5. Selection bias. You can easily find 10+ games from this season where smaller teams complained about getting robbed against you.

6. Point 3.

7. So your ongoing corruption investigation is yet another Machiavellian scheme by Madrid? Laughing  Xavi and Laporta complain about refs every time a microphone is put in front of their face. The majority of headlines about referees in Spain come from them. Win or lose, they made a habit of blowing up every little refereeing decision after the game. Nobody puts more pressure on refs than these two.
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Post by Thimmy Wed Apr 24, 2024 2:29 pm

I still remember when people viewed Chelsea as the "oil club" in football, and the internet couldn't wait for an opportunity to call them out, or berate their achievements because of it. "no history" and "mercenary club" where comments that I used to read regularly, and I have to admit, I didn't like the introduction of wealthy club owners either.

It feels a bit bizarre when I think about it these days, because no one cares how much money they spend anymore, or how well they do in any competition. Even their last Champions League success seemed to have gone under the radar to such an extent that I was recently reminded that Chelsea won it quite recently.

It's only City and PSG that seem to have targets on their back, these days. I don't know if it's because they've committed some shady activity behind the scenes, and seem to be actively looking for loopholes in FFP. But they are the two most successful clubs that are backed by external finances, and that success seems to bring about an air of arrogance that tends to cause people to speculate if there's more to their strength than simply hogging a lot of the available talent. I imagine the same kind of speculation applies to Real Madrid and their success in recent years as well. I do think we've benefited from some timely events/interventions in the Champions League over the past couple of years, and some people are clearly inclined to believe that those aren't coincidental. I'm not only referring to officiating, but all of the crucial goals that were handed to us through goalkeeper mistakes, for instance.

Rationally, I think it's safe to assume that FFP aren't going to do anything about wealthy owners, and they will likely be an influential part of the game for a long time, if not permanently. And so, there's no point in complaining about it. And to be completely honest, the talent distribution among the top teams in football seems relatively balanced to me these days, despite the financial imbalance. Clubs like, Man United have proven that money won't get you far if you don't consider when and how to spend it.
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Post by Vibe Wed Apr 24, 2024 2:39 pm

FFP was suposed to level the playing field, instead it widened the gap.

Teams with less money sell players to get under the line, but often get punished for being even slightly over, while bigger clubs exploit loopholes and pour money in their clubs through proxy deals and spend whatever they like on fees and wages.

Just get rid of it, it did nothing and arguably, probably made things worse.
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Post by Thimmy Wed Apr 24, 2024 2:53 pm

Vibe wrote:FFP was suposed to level the playing field, instead it widened the gap.

Teams with less money sell players to get under the line, but often get punished for being even slightly over,  while bigger clubs exploit loopholes and pour money in their clubs through proxy deals and spend whatever they like on fees and wages.

Just get rid of it, it did nothing and arguably, probably made things worse.


I agree, it hasn't made things better. But it's surprising how well clubs like Arsenal, Liverpool, Tottenham and even Barcelona and Bayern are still doing despite not being among the financial elite these days.

Barcelona and Bayern are going through a relatively tough period right now, but Bayern simply haven't spent a lot of money on necessary bolstering of their squad. I believe Bayern gained about as much money through sales as they spent last summer. I can't tell if they're being cheap, or if they are patiently waiting for the right players to become available. Barcelona don't have spending power. Considering both of their circumstances, they're not doing that badly. The standards and expectations are just high.

Forgot to mention Girona and Aston Villa. Who saw that coming?
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Post by Vibe Wed Apr 24, 2024 3:16 pm

Well there are outliers every couple of seasons in every league. They tend to dissipate, sometimes as soon as next season. I wouldn't be surprised too much to see Girona in bottom half next year and Villa midtable.
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Post by BarcaLearning Wed Apr 24, 2024 4:55 pm

Myesyats, good effort as usual, but theres no much point explaining or arguing with the Real fans here cos most of them are so biased n will never ever admit anything, so dont bother too much, I just laugh about it n accept it as part of life nowadays since its been the case all these yrs n will just continues it seems Very Happy
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Post by futbol_bill Wed Apr 24, 2024 5:53 pm

BarcaLearning wrote:Myesyats, good effort as usual, but theres no much point explaining or arguing with the Real fans here cos most of them are so biased n will never ever admit anything, so dont bother too much, I just laugh about it n accept it as part of life nowadays since its been the case all these yrs n will just continues it seems Very Happy


Lol, what bias! The responses are factual contrary to the perceptions put forward by Myesyats. And farfan is not even a Madrid fan!
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Post by Myesyats Wed Apr 24, 2024 6:36 pm

BarcaLearning wrote:Myesyats, good effort as usual, but theres no much point explaining or arguing with the Real fans here cos most of them are so biased n will never ever admit anything, so dont bother too much, I just laugh about it n accept it as part of life nowadays since its been the case all these yrs n will just continues it seems Very Happy

I don't expect anything, all of them have repeatedly purported that Tebas is against them meanwhile he is openly a big fan of the club which is ridiculous.



Its like a lion trying to explain to antelopes that he is one of them.
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Post by farfan Wed Apr 24, 2024 7:44 pm

You guys have the gall to act like you're the ones arguing in good faith and presenting sound arguments when it's the  exact opposite Laughing

Every attempt to reason with you lot or even have a level-headed discussion  falls on deaf ears or is met with deflections and whataboutisms. The most recent example is Yamal's phantom goal. Despite multiple third parties confirming the ball didn't fully cross the line and despite multiple attempts to explain a simple optical illusion to you, you guys just plowed ahead and kept complaining and even demanded the game to be replayed. You stopped short of accusing Perez of bending the laws of physics to screw Barça.


Not only is the Barça fanbase quite paranoid and delusional, they also seem to have a child-like view of how the world works. Tebas has major disputes with Madrid involving billions of euros worth of TV deals and a potential breakaway league led by Perez that would destroy La Liga. But because Tebas grew up following Real Madrid, all of this must be a ruse and Tebas is surely in cahoots with Perez and Madrid behind the scenes....people actually believe this Laughing
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Post by Thimmy Wed Apr 24, 2024 7:50 pm

Myesyats wrote:
BarcaLearning wrote:Myesyats, good effort as usual, but theres no much point explaining or arguing with the Real fans here cos most of them are so biased n will never ever admit anything, so dont bother too much, I just laugh about it n accept it as part of life nowadays since its been the case all these yrs n will just continues it seems Very Happy

I don't expect anything, all of them have repeatedly purported that Tebas is against them meanwhile he is openly a big fan of the club which is ridiculous.



Its like a lion trying to explain to antelopes that he is one of them.


Somehow, I suspect that quote may be the result of poor translating or something along those lines hmm Tebas gives me Trump vibes with how little he seems to care about public relations, but surely even he wouldn't announce that he's a fan of any single club in the league who's association he's the president of.
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Post by titosantill Wed Apr 24, 2024 11:18 pm

I've always felt that small teams don't even care for nor want FFP. And I have my reasons for thinking this way. The whole Madrid is cheating us out of our birth right is played at this point. As a Madrid fan, whenever we encounter our crisis, my blame has always been towards the club. Whether its large scale like signing policies or small scale like a ref mistake during a game. Even though the club has its official stance, me personally I've never looked at it as an issue outside of Florentino's (or whomever the president is/was at the time) door.

I feel that's a manipulative tactic that has been done since time immemorial. "When we mess up and things are down, let's manipulate the puppets into thinking its not us but the big bad enemy on the other side". People talk about refs; what was the money used to sign Neymar spent on? what happened with Messi's contract? why does a club with mass appeal from the Ronaldinho era to Messi have to cry about money? Did we make poor decisions or are we just a crap club that had all our stars align with the dinho then messi arrivals?

I figure if some of those questions get answered correctly, ref officiating wouldn't even be a topic. For me, a big club makes its own luck. If Madrid has to cry about refs because we couldn't finish an opposition imo we don't deserve to win. I maintained silence when everyone was crying about the call against Valencia some months back, because in my opinion we should be thrashing that club.
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Post by Myesyats Thu Apr 25, 2024 10:17 am

farfan wrote:all of this must be a ruse and Tebas is surely in cahoots with Perez and Madrid behind the scenes....people actually believe this Laughing

You read again, and once more for good measure, what you have posted and think who has a child-like view of the world. There are no enemies where there is business to be done. Its like in politics where politicians grill each other every day and then meet up privately and drink alcohol together. Your view is child-like, thinking that they are some mortal enemies who have nothing to do with each other, as if YOU didnt know how the world actually works and how business is done. :facepalm:
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Post by Myesyats Thu Apr 25, 2024 10:32 am

Thimmy wrote:
Somehow, I suspect that quote may be the result of poor translating or something along those lines hmm Tebas gives me Trump vibes with how little he seems to care about public relations, but surely even he wouldn't announce that he's a fan of any single club in the league who's association he's the president of.

Tebas enfatizó en la salud económica del Real Madrid, que alcanzará los 1.000 millones de facturación, y celebró, también "como madridista", la llegada de Kylian Mbappé este verano al club blanco. "Es una gran alegría, es uno de los mejores jugadores del mundo. No diría el mejor, porque me quedo con Bellingham y con Vinícius. Tenemos que estar muy contentos, el Real Madrid ha sabido gestionar este fichaje a pesar de la ansiedad e impaciencia mediática", elogió.

Tebas emphasized the economic health of Real Madrid, which will reach 1,000 million in turnover, and celebrated, also "as a Real Madrid fan", the arrival of Kylian Mbappé this summer to the white club. "It's a great joy, he is one of the best players in the world. I wouldn't say the best, because I'll stick with Bellingham and Vinícius. We have to be very happy, Real Madrid has known how to manage this signing despite the anxiety and impatience media," he praised.



he has done this multiple times, it is never a misquote. This league is farce, around and over and it reflects the degree of corruption in Spain as a whole.
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Post by farfan Thu Apr 25, 2024 1:00 pm

Myesyats wrote:
farfan wrote:all of this must be a ruse and Tebas is surely in cahoots with Perez and Madrid behind the scenes....people actually believe this Laughing

You read again, and once more for good measure, what you have posted and think who has a child-like view of the world. There are no enemies where there is business to be done. Its like in politics where politicians grill each other every day and then meet up privately and drink alcohol together. Your view is child-like, thinking that they are some mortal enemies who have nothing to do with each other, as if YOU didnt know how the world actually works and how business is done. :facepalm:


I read the posts again, and the notion that a top league executive is driven by some boyhood fandom of a club is still the most child-like take here.

Unlike you guys I don't see things as black and white. I don't need to believe Tebas and Perez are mortal enemies or bestest of friends to make sense of how these people interact with each other. These two are in business together and sometimes their interest overlap and sometimes they don't. Sometimes Barça and Madrid's interests overlap against what the league wants (CVC, Super League).Madrid literally just lost a court case against the league regarding the CVC Laughing Your analogy of politicians "grilling" each other doesn't apply here, these are real high stakes with billions of euros in play.

The funny thing is that you guys seem to forget that Barça and Laporta are pretty much in this circle as well Laughing  He and Perez have a close working relationship and Perez even helped Barça structure some of their deals back when they were activating their "levers". It's as if these people are in the same business and have a vested interest in making money together....weird I know.

This sort of wacky thinking isn't new to this fanbase. A few years ago Barça fans and media were convinced their tax-evading players were only being prosecuted because of Real Madrid bias in Spain's judicial system Laughing These people actually believed Madrid fandom was so insidious that it has infiltrated the courts of a democratic country and that the judges sentencing Messi and co were wearing Real Madrid jerseys under their robes. This is the level we're dealing with here folks.
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Post by BarcaLearning Thu Apr 25, 2024 2:30 pm

Im not saying anything but just read this the league have rescheduled our match vs Valencia from Sat. to Mon. along with a few other games in order to allow Real to play their game vs Real Soc. on Friday so they have more rest b4 their next CL game, Real are so privileged as always:

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/40020895/how-rescheduled-barcelona-laliga-match-helps-real-madrid-champions-league
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Post by Pedram Thu Apr 25, 2024 2:54 pm

BarcaLearning wrote:Im not saying anything but just read this the league have rescheduled our match vs Valencia from Sat. to Mon. along with a few other games in order to allow Real to play their game vs Real Soc. on Friday so they have more rest b4 their next CL game, Real are so privileged as always:

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/40020895/how-rescheduled-barcelona-laliga-match-helps-real-madrid-champions-league


It's because Spain cares about its CL coefficient? i imagine they would have done the same for you if we were eliminated from the CL and Barca was in the semi-final instead.

You guys have to turn everything into a grand conspiracy smh
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Post by farfan Thu Apr 25, 2024 3:51 pm

Pedram wrote:
BarcaLearning wrote:Im not saying anything but just read this the league have rescheduled our match vs Valencia from Sat. to Mon. along with a few other games in order to allow Real to play their game vs Real Soc. on Friday so they have more rest b4 their next CL game, Real are so privileged as always:

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/40020895/how-rescheduled-barcelona-laliga-match-helps-real-madrid-champions-league


It's because Spain cares about its CL coefficient? i imagine they would have done the same for you if we were eliminated from the CL and Barca was in the semi-final instead.

You guys have to turn everything into a grand conspiracy smh


Leagues do this all the time. Last year the EPL rescheduled a Man U game to accommodate their Europa League schedule IIRC. Serie A did it for Milan, Napoli, and Inter at the same time last year. Laughing Leagues even reschedule matches at the requests of teams over nonsense like local festivals and concerts. I don't see how they wouldn't oblige these requests if it means more rest for their teams in European competitions.

But then again we're dealing with a group of people who firmly believe they're the victims of a grand conspiracy. Even the most mundane of decisions is turned into a controversy. They just wake up everyday and start actively looking for what to complain and whine about.
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Post by Myesyats Thu Apr 25, 2024 4:01 pm

Pedram wrote:
BarcaLearning wrote:Im not saying anything but just read this the league have rescheduled our match vs Valencia from Sat. to Mon. along with a few other games in order to allow Real to play their game vs Real Soc. on Friday so they have more rest b4 their next CL game, Real are so privileged as always:

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/40020895/how-rescheduled-barcelona-laliga-match-helps-real-madrid-champions-league


It's because Spain cares about its CL coefficient? i imagine they would have done the same for you if we were eliminated from the CL and Barca was in the semi-final instead.

You guys have to turn everything into a grand conspiracy smh

We requested a few times in the past and were always denied iirc but maybe it wasnt due to CL. One time it was because of Supercopa.
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Post by Myesyats Thu Apr 25, 2024 4:10 pm

farfan wrote:
Myesyats wrote:
farfan wrote:all of this must be a ruse and Tebas is surely in cahoots with Perez and Madrid behind the scenes....people actually believe this Laughing

You read again, and once more for good measure, what you have posted and think who has a child-like view of the world. There are no enemies where there is business to be done. Its like in politics where politicians grill each other every day and then meet up privately and drink alcohol together. Your view is child-like, thinking that they are some mortal enemies who have nothing to do with each other, as if YOU didnt know how the world actually works and how business is done. :facepalm:


I read the posts again, and the notion that a top league executive is driven by some boyhood fandom of a club is still the most child-like take here.

Unlike you guys I don't see things as black and white. I don't need to believe Tebas and Perez are mortal enemies or bestest of friends to make sense of how these people interact with each other. These two are in business together and sometimes their interest overlap and sometimes they don't. Sometimes Barça and Madrid's interests overlap against what the league wants (CVC, Super League).Madrid literally just lost a court case against the league regarding the CVC Laughing Your analogy of politicians "grilling" each other doesn't apply here, these are real high stakes with billions of euros in play.

The funny thing is that you guys seem to forget that Barça and Laporta are pretty much in this circle as well Laughing  He and Perez have a close working relationship and Perez even helped Barça structure some of their deals back when they were activating their "levers". It's as if these people are in the same business and have a vested interest in making money together....weird I know.

This sort of wacky thinking isn't new to this fanbase. A few years ago Barça fans and media were convinced their tax-evading players were only being prosecuted because of Real Madrid bias in Spain's judicial system Laughing These people actually believed Madrid fandom was so insidious that it has infiltrated the courts of a democratic country and that the judges sentencing Messi and co were wearing Real Madrid jerseys under their robes. This is the level we're dealing with here folks.

How is it wacky to believe that a system is based on prejudice? That is literally the world in a nutshell. Laporta is at the forefront of this loony crusade, so if he's working closely with Perez then he must have some insider knowledge :coffee:
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