Re: The Official WWE Thread - Part 34

[M99]

Reddit

I'm judging by crowd reactions. Every week the segment involving the two gets reactions, shocked silence, boos, you sold out chants. Even in house shows its the hottest segment. To say its not even close is ridiculous. Before Nia's botch it was the biggest thing going in WWE.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

Lol no, Becky has been the most white hot Superstar since Summerslam.

This is a irrefutable fact, the only person who is close is McIntyre. Becky and Charlotte was probably the feud which had the most heat before this and before the forced Shield reunion it was Rollins who had the most momentum.

But i forgot why i don't argue with you about Ambrose, in your mind he's The Rock. Thanks for the reminder though and I'll try to remember for longer this time.

[M99]

WTF when did I say anything about Ambrose being as hot as Becky??? I'm just saying the feud is hot and that is due to a lot of things. Mainly that Rollins is the most over male face on the roster (more than Styles and before his turn Bryan too), Ambrose turning on the night Roman announced he has leukemia, and the fantastic promos by both men.

Ugh this is the Sane shitshow all over again. Thanks for the reminder to not argue with you about anything when you read things people never wrote. Like a hipster, non-racist Unique.

[Casciavit]

Becky has been the hottest superstar since Summerslam. She's been putting on excellent work since then and deserves the plaudits coming her way.

I think Ambrose-Rollins has been fine. Obviously the turn was rushed to capitalize on the Reigns announcement. Truth is they probably won't be truly feuding until after Survivor Series. So the first 2 weeks were segments done to prolong the feud. I'm sure it'll pick up in the next few weeks. It really only takes one good segment to change everything up so I'm not worried about the supposed lack of heat for now.

Interesting to see that Ambrose-Reigns was the original WM main event. Hopefully Rollins and Ambrose can sneak their way into that slot. It's unlikely now that Brock is champion but I also don't see them having Drew headline it as he isn't over enough even though he has a good look and has been putting good work.

So Becky-Ronda being the supposed main event makes sense as of now. However it doesn't really matter much at this point. Two years ago this time last year Jericho and Owens were supposed to headline for the universal championship. Brock and Goldberg did instead. Hell watch Batista-Brock happen now too.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

WTF when did I say anything about Ambrose being as hot as Becky??? I'm just saying the feud is hot and that is due to a lot of things. Mainly that Rollins is the most over male face on the roster (more than Styles and before his turn Bryan too), Ambrose turning on the night Roman announced he has leukemia, and the fantastic promos by both men.

Ugh this is the Sane shitshow all over again. Thanks for the reminder to not argue with you about anything when you read things people never wrote. Like a hipster, non-racist Unique.

Where did i say it isn't hot? You said it's just as hot and that plainly isn't true.

You're last sentence is ironic considering that's what everyone in that Sane thread was doing every time i explained myself and what you're doing now lol.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

Becky has been the hottest superstar since Summerslam. She's been putting on excellent work since then and deserves the plaudits coming her way.

I think Ambrose-Rollins has been fine. Obviously the turn was rushed to capitalize on the Reigns announcement. Truth is they probably won't be truly feuding until after Survivor Series. So the first 2 weeks were segments done to prolong the feud. I'm sure it'll pick up in the next few weeks. It really only takes one good segment to change everything up so I'm not worried about the supposed lack of heat for now.

Interesting to see that Ambrose-Reigns was the original WM main event. Hopefully Rollins and Ambrose can sneak their way into that slot. It's unlikely now that Brock is champion but I also don't see them having Drew headline it as he isn't over enough even though he has a good look and has been putting good work.

So Becky-Ronda being the supposed main event makes sense as of now. However it doesn't really matter much at this point. Two years ago this time last year Jericho and Owens were supposed to headline for the universal championship. Brock and Goldberg did instead. Hell watch Batista-Brock happen now too.

This basically.

Not particularly sure if the Ambrose and Reigns thing was actually going to happen tbh, it's possible i suppose but i doubt they had any WM plans short of Reigns vs random guy here and i haven't read it anywhere before m99 mentioned it.

But i think Ambrose vs Rollins were always planned to be working together so i suspect that's highly unlikely Reigns would have worked with either one.

[M99]

There is a very good chance the women will main event WrestleMania for the first time ever this year. Ronda Rousey vs. Charlotte Flair was talked about after last year’s Wrestlemania, and at the time there were questions asked about Rousey headlining such a big show with her level of experience. There is far less doubt about that now. Plus, the other choice as a headliner, Roman Reigns vs Dean Ambrose or Drew Mcintyre (Ambrose’s turn would have been much later and on Reigns and Mcintyre is being groomed to be a top guy), right now is out the window. The HHH vs. Batista match is also very much in question given HHH’s surgery for a torn pec. Brock Lesnar will be at Mania, and there is a direction in place, but it is not certain whether he’ll be champion or not.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

Fair enough, i take that back then.

So i assume Ambrose wouldn't have turned then in this scenario?

Honestly reading those plans makes me much prefer the seemingly current direction.

Obviously pretty much all of it was an accident but still.

[M99]

He says Ambrose would have turned much later (said this before too) and "on Reigns" I don't really get the wording on that. I assume the focus on his betrayal would be more on Reigns?

[Casciavit]

He wouldve turned and beat Rollins first and then lose to Reigns most probably.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

While we are talking about WM plans though.

Meltzer seems to think Lesnar is facing Styles or McIntyre (mentioned Bryan too but that seems unlikely now)

Styles makes sense from a storyline pov and McIntyre makes sense from a "the guy" point of view.

[M99]

If Triple H is injured, wouldn't mind seeing Batista vs Lesnar. Would be a spectacle.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

If Triple H is injured, wouldn't mind seeing Batista vs Lesnar. Would be a spectacle.

Didn't think about that, tbh i'll never be against anything involving big Dave

Always been a big fan of Batista.

[Onyx]

Bah gawd Bryan heel turn.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

I wonder if the Becky stuff has made Vince give up mostly on the whole heel/babyface dynamic.

Because when you look at the Smackdown roster outside of Styles well Bryan will have nobody to feud with

Nakamura turned heel, Orton turned heel, Joe is a heel, Miz is a heel, Almas is a heel and has no momentum anyway.

It's literally just Jeff Hardy who has zero momentum for the same reason Almas does and Rey Mysterio. Not really complaining because i do think the traditional heel/babyface dynamic is long been played but it's interesting development regardless.

[Casciavit]

Bah gawd Bryan heel turn.

Thoughts on the product Rn.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

I mean even i could tell you the product is fucking horrendous

When i was enjoying it in 2016 and you all were mostly criticising it and this is 100x worse.

[Casciavit]

@Mole

Wrestling has always been built on having a top face that the company is built around who beats the villains.

The problem now is that the good guys are so poorly written that they end up getting booed and the heels end up getting cheered.

All that creates is a roster that isn't over. I love anti heroes myself but when heels start going out of their way to get cheered instead of making the face get cheered it ruins the point of wrestling lol.

There's a bunch of problems with their current character alignments. Obviously having more complex characters makes for better TV, but end of the day Vince caters to the kids and he'll probably just turn a bunch of heel wrestlers face to fix it up.

I'm all for blurring the lines between good and bad, but I doubt that's the direction they'll go in.

[Casciavit]

I mean even i could tell you the product is fucking horrendous

When i was enjoying it in 2016 and you all were mostly criticising it and this is 100x worse.

Loool I phrased that wrong. I meant more about which wrestlers he enjoys now. The overall product is crap but I think these recent heel turns will liven it up a bit.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

Yeah you're probably right, i just found it interesting that literally everyone is a heel on the roster lol.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

I mean even i could tell you the product is fucking horrendous

When i was enjoying it in 2016 and you all were mostly criticising it and this is 100x worse.

Loool I phrased that wrong. I meant more about which wrestlers he enjoys now. The overall product is crap but I think these recent heel turns will liven it up a bit.

I'll be honest I'll be surprised if MT has watched much at all and i don't really blame him.

[M99]

You lads heard the rumor that Shahid Khan (of Fulham/Wembley fame) is going to create a wrestling promotion with Jericho, JR and The Elite?

[Jay29]

Speaking as someone who hasn't watched WWE in a long time now, the abundance of heels and lack of good faces is one of the main reasons the product is so unattractive nowadays.

See, there's nothing inherently wrong with the dynamic itself. Superhero movies are the most popular movies these days, and they essentially play off the same dynamic (hero vs villain, though of course there's usually more nuance there than in wrestling). People like heroes, so it's baffling to me that WWE seems so intent on having so few of them.

The difference nowadays is that what a modern audience expects of a face is different to older audiences. Modern audiences tend to be wiser about the business and are less willing to play along if what they're seeing is incredibly forced or fake. It started with Cena (remember when Super Cena was a thing?), then they repeated the mistake with Reigns - this thing of making their top faces like literal super heroes who ALWAYS save the day/overcome the odds, yet somehow not realising that if your face is winning every match and every title shot than they can't, by definition, be an underdog. Instead, the heels start feeling like the underdog and the crowd starts sympathising with them because they're struggling against the machine (case in point, CM Punk before winning his first WWE Championship). Failing that, the crowd will move on to another face who they perceive is more deserving, even if reality says otherwise.

Doesn't help that most faces come across as bland. Who's the top face atm? AJ Styles? Never liked him as a face. After him, you've got Rollins. I like Rollins a lot, but he's another bland face. I don't know if it's the talent, or a case of the company asking them to play it safe to the point of sanitisation. Either way, it doesn't seem to be working all that well.

And I could be wrong, but this Lynch/Roussey thing - isn't Roussey the face and Lynch the heel? Yet Lynch is the one everyone cares about and wants to see?

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

They're awful at building good babyfaces, this is known tbh.

Even back in the day they were, which is why everyone had a heel run first to get over. I get he was loved but Stone Cold wasn't really a "good guy".

As for Becky she's not really either, she's bad ass who doesn't give a shit which is why she has so much momentum because she's not cookie cutter like most WWE characters.

The thing about this conversation i find funny  is during the attitude era most of the main eventers weren't the good guy vs bad guy stuff, The Rock and Stone Cold were both anti heroes.

Instead of building off that, WWE regressed back to the Superhero vs Villain cartoony product of the 80s.

[M99]

Meltzer said Bryan requested to turn heel because he was disappointed with his booking as a face lol.

I mean it sounds unbelievable that they would screw up the purest face in years but thats exactly what they did with a two month Big Cass feud, sticking him with Brie, jobbing to Bludgeon Brothers and what not.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

Meltzer said Bryan requested to turn heel because he was disappointed with his booking as a face lol.

I mean it sounds unbelievable that they would screw up the purest face in years but thats exactly what they did with a two month Big Cass feud, sticking him with Brie, jobbing to Bludgeon Brothers and what not.

LMAO, i think that's all you need to say really.

At least Bryan recognised it though, i mean it was obvious he was reactions were getting more and more muted but not all wrestlers are that self aware or passionate enough to get it changed.

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