Germany Election

Maybe Hans is Hubert Aiwanger?
That was incredibly spot on, I actually lol'ed a bit.

I read what Sri cited before I posted so..

Very similar developments in the Hessen state parliamentary elections, to the ones in Bayern.

Both big parties losing massively, Greens are on par with the SPD, AfD debuting with a big win, only difference is that the Left got in (and the lack of Free Voters)

I don't like it , should we be worried or it's just former DDR

Robespierre wrote:I don't like it , should we be worried or it's just former DDR

Former DDR, they are irrelevant. The Alabama of Germany. 12th and 14th (out of 16) weakest economic regions in Germany. Anyone with half a brain cell leaves those places so that's what you get.

@Robespierre, the rise of AfD is facilitated by the continued demise of Left. In both the states their votes have halved. This is a microcosm of political dynamics, whenever a progressive/liberal force fails, reactionary/fascist forces gain.

What brought on this rioting and looting in Stuttgart?

Art Morte wrote:What brought on this rioting and looting in Stuttgart?

Some kids partying, one of them got stopped for a drug control, others started throwing bottles to drive off the cops, a mob formed, started roaming around Stuttgart, wrecking police vehicles.

From anything I've read about it so far, it really sounds like there was nothing political going on. Just shitty group dynamics colliding with too many young people with time on their hands and a lack of alcohol tolerance.

VivaStPauli wrote:

Art Morte wrote:What brought on this rioting and looting in Stuttgart?

Some kids partying, one of them got stopped for a drug control, others started throwing bottles to drive off the cops, a mob formed, started roaming around Stuttgart, wrecking police vehicles.

From anything I've read about it so far, it really sounds like there was nothing political going on. Just shitty group dynamics colliding with too many young people with time on their hands and a lack of alcohol tolerance.

Not some harmless kids, there's a tendency to test the boundries one can cross with the police. There was a statement by the the social democratic co-leader Esken (SPD) who blatantly generalised the police force as racists. There's a law in Berlin now where the police has to prove whether they aren't guilty during an arrest. The ruling is absurd. To top it all, in the Berliner Taz (Berliner Tageszeitung), an author wrote the police is a garbage (Müll) who represses the people.
The leftists, specially in Berlin, crossed all boundaries. It's time the politics and the media show them what's up. Seehofer (the interim minister) said no state will send any reinforcements to Berlin in case of an escalation, for they don't want their police forces "to be guilty until proven right". Berlin failed to this day to calirify the situation. Berlin is a failed state.

Videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdm-p8TgiHg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gww_hyyyl9g

So what exactly is wrong with writing a column in a newspaper that ex police forces, once the institution of the police is dissolved, deserve to be garbage dumped as there is nothing else they would be good for?

I don't agree at all with any of that, Germany in particular does not have a problem with undereducated, trigger-happy redneck Hollywood sherrifs like the US does, but it's outrageous that the German Interior Minister would file an official lawsuit against a newspaper for that. I did not see Seehofer filing a lawsuit when Gauland said he would "dispose" of a German politician with Turkish roots in Anatolia.

futbol wrote:So what exactly is wrong with writing in a column in a newspaper that ex police forces, once the institution of the police is dissolved, deserve to be garbage dumped?

I don't agree at all with any of that but it's outrageous that the German Interior Minister would file an official lawsuit against a newspaper for that. I did not see Seehofer filing a lawsuit when Gauland said he would "dispose" of a German politician with Turkish roots in Anatolia.

Ah but this time it's the left.

Seehofer is a disgrace. Always has been and always will be.

Agree with futbol and zigra.
Babun losing the plot lately IMHO

VivaStPauli wrote:Agree with futbol and zigra.
Babun losing the plot lately IMHO

Nope, watch the videos carefully. There're are small groups among them who attack the police from the crowd then let the police follow them to separate the unit in an organized manner. The majourity doesn't attack the police so there's no reason to detain them which causes confusion. Then they vandalise inbetween the separated units and the game restarts. I don't know who trained them or which group they belong to but they're no amateurs. Those are some hardcore trained guerilla tactics I don't expect a random crowd to have.

Or they're not idiots, or a sports team, or have a criminal background, don't really need to have a conspiracy theory to explain almost-grown semi-adults behave with tactics above a pride of wild baboons.

https://www.dw.com/en/controversial-lenin-statue-unveiled-in-germanys-gelsenkirchen/a-53880002

viva was this you?

Listen, if I were a Communist, which I am not, I would be a Marxist or Trotskyist, I despise Leninism for it's authoritarian bend.




That being said, I actually laughed. MLPD be crazy, yo.

VivaStPauli wrote:Listen, if I were a Communist, which I am not, I would be a Marxist or Trotskyist, I despise Leninism for it's authoritarian bend.




That being said, I actually laughed. MLPD be crazy, yo.

Was it Lenin or Stalin!!! I don't suppose Lenin didn't get to do much.

Stalin certainly is the big Hitler of Communism (heh), but Lenin also had this authoritarian bend I dislike. And no sane person advocates Stalinism, but you can actually find serious Leninists if you go looking.

Meanwhile Italian people will have voting  in two weeks for a constitutional referendum on reducing the number of MPs in the Parliament ( from 630 to 400 in the Chamber of Deputies and from 315 to 200 in the Senat) - ah , I'll vote No,
in Germany  I 've seen Die Linke have posted this about Bundestag

CDU, CSU und SPD haben den rechten Knopf gedrückt. #Wahlrechtsreform #Wahlrecht #Bundestag #Überhangmandate pic.twitter.com/XYL2Fl7pIQ

— DIE LINKE (@dieLinke) August 26, 2020

Who explains me ? ( i've even troubles to understand German language lol)
What's the matter in Germany ?
Your opinion about it ?

Robespierre wrote:Meanwhile Italian people will have voting  in two weeks for a constitutional referendum on reducing the number of MPs in the Parliament ( from 630 to 400 in the Chamber of Deputies and from 315 to 200 in the Senat) - ah , I'll vote No,
in Germany  I 've seen Die Linke have posted this about Bundestag

CDU, CSU und SPD haben den rechten Knopf gedrückt. #Wahlrechtsreform #Wahlrecht #Bundestag #Überhangmandate pic.twitter.com/XYL2Fl7pIQ

— DIE LINKE (@dieLinke) August 26, 2020

Who explains me ? ( i've even troubles to understand German language lol)
What's the matter in Germany ?
Your opinion about it ?

Why!!! Do you really need that many deputies!!!

Robespierre wrote:Meanwhile Italian people will have voting  in two weeks for a constitutional referendum on reducing the number of MPs in the Parliament ( from 630 to 400 in the Chamber of Deputies and from 315 to 200 in the Senat) - ah , I'll vote No,
in Germany  I 've seen Die Linke have posted this about Bundestag
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="de" dir="ltr" xml:lang="de">CDU, CSU und SPD haben den rechten Knopf gedrückt. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Wahlrechtsreform?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Wahlrechtsreform</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Wahlrecht?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Wahlrecht</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bundestag?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Bundestag</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/%C3%9Cberhangmandate?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Überhangmandate</a> <a href="https://t.co/XYL2Fl7pIQ">pic.twitter.com/XYL2Fl7pIQ</a></p>— DIE LINKE (@dieLinke) <a href="https://twitter.com/dieLinke/status/1298559655086563328?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 26, 2020</a></blockquote>

Who explains me ? ( i've even troubles to understand German language lol)
What's the matter in Germany ?
Your opinion about it ?

The left (Die Linke), FDP (liberals) and The Green proposed to reduce the number of seats in the Bundestag (parliament) because there're too many. The one to press the button is the great coalition (the ruling CDU+SPD), they don't know whether to accept and conceive defeat (left button) or to get out of the way by founding an Arbeitskreis (a bunch of specialists who discuss the issues and present a paper with proposals in the end).
Germany has got a problem with the overhang seats just like Scotland. See here for more detail:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overhang_seat
The plan is to reduce the parliament size like in Italy. I agree by the way, no need for that many seats.

Babun wrote:

Robespierre wrote:Meanwhile Italian people will have voting  in two weeks for a constitutional referendum on reducing the number of MPs in the Parliament ( from 630 to 400 in the Chamber of Deputies and from 315 to 200 in the Senat) - ah , I'll vote No,
in Germany  I 've seen Die Linke have posted this about Bundestag

CDU, CSU und SPD haben den rechten Knopf gedrückt. #Wahlrechtsreform #Wahlrecht #Bundestag #Überhangmandate pic.twitter.com/XYL2Fl7pIQ

— DIE LINKE (@dieLinke) August 26, 2020

Who explains me ? ( i've even troubles to understand German language lol)
What's the matter in Germany ?
Your opinion about it ?

The left (Die Linke), FDP (liberals) and The Green proposed to reduce the number of seats in the Bundestag (parliament) because there're too many. The one to press the button is the great coalition (the ruling CDU+SPD), they don't know whether to accept and conceive defeat (left button) or to get out of the way by founding an Arbeitskreis (a bunch of specialists who discuss the issues and present a paper with proposals in the end).
Germany has got a problem with the overhang seats just like Scotland. See here for more detail:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overhang_seat
The plan is to reduce the parliament size like in Italy. I agree by the way, no need for that many seats.

First of all thanks for  your answer.

Well I find it weird because in Italy there's a political orientation a bit different.

I mean, the only parties that really oppose reform are those closer to Die Linke , that is Sinistra Italiana and Potere al Popolo. Far left wing (same political group of the EP, the GUE/NG. Unluckly they've not same national representation than Die Linke. The glorious Italian left is dead ).
Forza Italia (Italian CDU ) and PD (center-left, more center than left .....) are divided within them.
Right wing  parties want reduction of the Parliament, I mean those 2 parties (Lega and Fratelli d' Italia  )  that are the exact equivalent to AdF in Germany In addition to them M5S, the real promoter of the project, but that's why they'an apolitical force incredibly populist.
I follow different leftist accounts on twitter and everyone fights against this reform in Italy.
So , Die Linke position interested me for some reflection on how similar forces move in European for a similar fact I mean I believed to have understood badly, but no they want reduction..

Talking for me, I vote no because I think  it is a populist "urgency", which endangers popular representativeness.
You can improve  representation trough ordinary legislative instruments, such as the electoral law, which can be used, without changing the Constitution by cutting representation.
Not even convinced about costs.
I refuse  idea to make economics  at the expense of democratic institutions.
At max it's legit to cut parlamentars' salaries . You don't reduce expense now, but representation  at parliament.
That  theory which  cut would create a virtuous skimming on the ruling class should be demonstrated. It looks like  counterproductive to identify a  as responsible the spaces of democratic representation, instead of those who have poorly occupied them.

Robespierre wrote:

Babun wrote:

Robespierre wrote:Meanwhile Italian people will have voting  in two weeks for a constitutional referendum on reducing the number of MPs in the Parliament ( from 630 to 400 in the Chamber of Deputies and from 315 to 200 in the Senat) - ah , I'll vote No,
in Germany  I 've seen Die Linke have posted this about Bundestag
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="de" dir="ltr" xml:lang="de">CDU, CSU und SPD haben den rechten Knopf gedrückt. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Wahlrechtsreform?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Wahlrechtsreform</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Wahlrecht?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Wahlrecht</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bundestag?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Bundestag</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/%C3%9Cberhangmandate?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Überhangmandate</a> <a href="https://t.co/XYL2Fl7pIQ">pic.twitter.com/XYL2Fl7pIQ</a></p>— DIE LINKE (@dieLinke) <a href="https://twitter.com/dieLinke/status/1298559655086563328?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 26, 2020</a></blockquote>

Who explains me ? ( i've even troubles to understand German language lol)
What's the matter in Germany ?
Your opinion about it ?

The left (Die Linke), FDP (liberals) and The Green proposed to reduce the number of seats in the Bundestag (parliament) because there're too many. The one to press the button is the great coalition (the ruling CDU+SPD), they don't know whether to accept and conceive defeat (left button) or to get out of the way by founding an Arbeitskreis (a bunch of specialists who discuss the issues and present a paper with proposals in the end).
Germany has got a problem with the overhang seats just like Scotland. See here for more detail:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overhang_seat
The plan is to reduce the parliament size like in Italy. I agree by the way, no need for that many seats.

First of all thanks for  your answer.

Well I find it weird because in Italy there's a political orientation a bit different.

I mean, the only parties that really oppose reform are those closer to Die Linke , that is Sinistra Italiana and Potere al Popolo. Far left wing (same political group of the EP, the GUE/NG. Unluckly they've not same national representation than Die Linke. The glorious Italian left is dead ).
Forza Italia (Italian CDU ) and PD (center-left, more center than left .....) are divided within them.
Right wing  parties want reduction of the Parliament, I mean those 2 parties (Lega and Fratelli d' Italia  )  that are the exact equivalent to AdF in Germany In addition to them M5S, the real promoter of the project, but that's why they'an apolitical force incredibly populist.
I follow different leftist accounts on twitter and everyone fights against this reform in Italy.
So , Die Linke position interested me for some reflection on how similar forces move in European for a similar fact I mean I believed to have understood badly, but no they want reduction..

Talking for me, I vote no because I think  it is a populist "urgency", which endangers popular representativeness.
You can improve  representation trough ordinary legislative instruments, such as the electoral law, which can be used, without changing the Constitution by cutting representation.
Not even convinced about costs.
I refuse  idea to make economics  at the expense of democratic institutions.
At max it's legit to cut parlamentars' salaries . You don't reduce expense now, but representation  at parliament.
That  theory which  cut would create a virtuous skimming on the ruling class should be demonstrated. It looks like  counterproductive to identify a  as responsible the spaces of democratic representation, instead of those who have poorly occupied them.

The situation is a bit different in Germany, better said very different. All parties and the electorate agree the number of mandates has to be reduced. The question is only in which way so no party gets a handicap during the next election. The proposal Die Linke, FDP and die Grüne made would've handicaped CSU so they're looking further for solutions. The number has to be decreased due to the way overhang seats work. There's no question about that. To give you an idea, the number of seats by law are supposed to be 598. Because of the overhang seats the current number is 709!

Also, die Linke in Germany is what's left of SED, the communist party which ruled east Germany before unification. They're shaddy people, I wouldn't lump them with your far left. AFD is also very problematic. They were supposed to fill the void for the conservative voices right from the middle but where overtaken by the far right+neonazi groups from east Germany. The extremist in Germany are no good no matter which way you look at

I'm also very sad for Italy Lega (Nord) could become a force. They even left out the north part away to include south Italians after discriminating against them for decades. Cinque Stellae was the icing on the cake in a negative sense. I hope you guys corrent the course before it's too late. Italy needs shitloads of reforms NOW.