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Post by lucianomoggi Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:43 pm

BTW

Bonuci was always overrated

I did not wanted to conflict you guys and have Hernanes kind of discussions, but hes overrated

1. Bonuci has rarely score goals (headers) which is not good for his size, he should have scored more goals, he should have done much better

2. His personality -

how good one defender is? Has a lot to do with his personality, a personality like Buffon with only his presence himself makes the opponents uncomfortable - because he is always focused and assertive - he knows whats he is doing and that intimidates the opponent -

Bonuci was easy found to be confused, unsure, insecure what he was doing, And that my friend is not good for a CB,














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Post by Luca Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:51 pm

You're not actually judging Bonucci on goals scored are you? He also scored more than ANY of our central defenders in the last 6 years, not that this matters in any case.

I'm not even going to entertain this argument. Bonucci is immense and if he was still on our team, we would have a better starting 11, team and defense. Case closed.

With that being said, I actually agree with Luciano's initial point, I don't think our defense is in as bad of shape as others here. I am much more concerned about our lack of a genuine right back, I'm not sure if De Sciglio is worth the gamble, and on our midfield's ability to break up the play and win us the ball back, then I am on our central defense.

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Post by Tomwin Lannister Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:55 pm

Luciano bruh I almost reported your starting XI with a back 3, Costa at wing back and Matuidi as #10
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:57 pm

Oh and Bonucci is arguably the best CB in the World, and the most consistent one we have had for 3 years with Chiellini and Barzagli's injuries and the latters decline in old age.

Let's not do the 'He was never that good anyway' shtick because he left us.

He's the only thing that made the back 3 tick. He's the one all of our players look to find when the opposition pressed us.
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Post by lucianomoggi Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:51 am

My problem with Bonuci was simple, I expected more goals from him, why? Because we dont do tiki-taka when opponents park the bus, its not our DNA,

what we do is we score goals with the giants,
thats how we roll



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Post by GiancarloC Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:24 am

Do you think the only thing that matters is scoring goals? Is that how you rate central defenders? How about some of the best central defenders of about a decade ago? Like Nesta? Someone who in his prime was better than any Italian defender playing right now? Nesta scored even less than Bonucci for the record...

Scoring goals as a central defender is nice, but come on... are you really going to tear Bonucci's abilities and qualities down simply because he went to Milan?

Talk about sour grapes. Bonucci is world class and the best CB in the Serie A by far, and arguably one of the best in the world. It's not Milan's fault you traded one of the best CBs in the world for 30 million + De Sciglio (12m - who is a joke when it comes to attack and merely average as a defender).

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Post by juvealbanian Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:33 am

I'm kinda disappointed and hope we'll get that physical DM before our mercato ends because I think that's something we badly lack in midfield.

We are waiting for Keita (15m offer) deal to happen so we might offload Cuadrado (25m) and buy a new RB (Cancelo?) That's pretty much what's left to do , maybe that 5th CB too.
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Post by Warrior Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:34 pm

The new RB will be Spinazzola. Joao Cancelo is off to Inter in a swap for Kondogbia.

As for the physical DM i'll never be against a quality player in our squad, but i don't see who's available now...

Emre Can ? Liverpool fan told me last week he is not even better than Henderson and Wijnaldum. And Liverpool lack personnel at this position already.

William Carvalho ? Read nothing about him for weeks.

Nzonzi ? Sevilla wants 40m. I don't think we'll pay that.
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Post by lucianomoggi Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:31 pm

- Do you think only goals matter?
- Is that how you rate cb?

Excuse me but when you claim that a player is a special one, you have to protect your claims with evidence about what makes him so special

Bonuci is a giant who is supposed to be good on aerial duels- and it is reasonable for me to expect goals (headers) from him, as i cannot expect headers from Dybala and Pjanic

You cannot compare Bonuci with the likes of Nesta, Canavaro, as they were much more pacy and did much better when tackling and blocking the shots,

Its same like trying ti excuses Mandzukic aerial duels with comparision of Dybala, Costa, Cuadrado -

that doesnt really help

Bonuci was good enough to rely on
But there was nothing special about him






























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Post by juve_gigi Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:58 pm

Lotito: 'Keita to Juve extortion' rofl

Lazio President Claudio Lotito confirms “Milan offered €35m for Keita Balde Diao, West Ham €32m and Napoli €30m. Juventus bid €15m – it’s extortion.”

The striker is currently refusing to attend training sessions after he was dropped for the Italian Super Cup against Juve, which the Aquile won 3-2.

His contract is due to expire at the end of the season and he has rejected multiple proposals.

“First things first, it’s not true that we have not proposed a new contract to Keita,” Lotito told La Gazzetta dello Sport.

“We met twice with his agent Roberto Calenda and Keita’s brother was present too. We offered him the same wages as Miroslav Klose (€2m per year, ndr), the highest-paid player under my tenure. The response was that the lad wanted to leave Lazio.

“There were three formal offers, all of them I can prove with documentation. Milan would’ve given us €35m, West Ham €32m and Napoli €30m.

“Keita and his agent replied they were not interested in any of the three, that the destination they wanted was Juventus. The player confirmed it to me in the pre-season training camp.

“The Bianconeri consider €15m to be a suitable offer, but I cannot sell a player for half of the lowest other offer I received. If I got proposals worth €30m, why should I sell him for half that?

“You tell me his contract is running down and I risk losing him for nothing if I don’t accept? Well I say that is extortion and practically qualifies as a crime.. Razz

“We will evaluate taking legal action. A contract must be respected and not just if a player doesn’t get game time. It’s also false to say that he was dropped because of a club diktat, as it was purely Simone Inzaghi’s choice.

“They tell me that in the locker room the player confessed he didn’t feel up to playing, then seemed below par in the training session. What a coincidence, he was going to play against Juve…

“Inzaghi will decide whether to use Keita or not this season. As for his contract running down, zero patience. It is more important to respect the rules.”
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Post by juve_gigi Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:16 pm

Juventus all in for Garay
Football Italia6 Hours Ago

Valencia defender Ezequiel Garay should join Juventus next week, according to VarskySports in Argentina.

It is no secret that the 30-year-old is a target to reinforce the back line after Leonardo Bonucci’s departure to Milan.

La Gazzetta dello Sport and Tuttosport also place Garay at the top of the list of likely summer swoops in the closing days of the transfer window.

He had been on the verge of a transfer to Spartak Moscow, but reportedly pulled out because his wife did not want a move to Russia.

The family only just left Zenit St Petersburg a year ago in a deal worth €24m.

Yesterday Valencia completed the signing of Jeison Murillo from Inter, on a two-year loan with obligation to buy for €13m.

Garay had also been mentioned as a part-exchange with Murillo for the Nerazzurri.
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Post by juve_gigi Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:33 pm

Here’s how Juve aim to beat AC Milan and Man Utd to signing of Renato Sanches | Calciomercato.com

Juventus have resumed their interest in AC Milan and Manchester United target Renato Sanches, according to the latest report of La Gazzetta dello Sport.

The Portuguese starlet had been previously linked with moves to the Old Trafford and to the San Siro but Juventus have also been chasing the 19-year-old who struggled with game time in Bavaria last season.

AC Milan wanted to sign Renato Sanches on loan with option to buy but Bayern Munich rejected the Serie A giants’ bid.

Manchester United came close to signing the Portugal International last summer but the player snubbed a move to Manchester signing for Bayern Munich instead.

Earlier this summer Bayern Munich CEO Karl-Heinz Rummenigge had claimed Renato Sanches could leave Bayern Munich for € 48 million but the Bavarians are not anymore willing to sell the player on a permanent deal.

Juventus want to sign Renato Sanches on a dry loan deal and could make an attempt to sign the Portuguese starlet until the end of next season, that’s how the bianconeri hope to beat their competitors to seal the (temporary) transfer of one of the most promising midfielders in Europe.
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Post by salmano9 Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:46 pm

Why are we trying to sign another midfielder? If we do, it means Bentancur will only play 5-7 games this season (most of them coming off the bench).
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Post by Luca Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:54 pm

salmano9 wrote:Why are we trying to sign another midfielder? If we do, it means Bentancur will only play 5-7 games this season (most of them coming off the bench).


Probably just a big fat rumour

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Post by Tomwin Lannister Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:54 pm

Don't want any more *bleep* loan deals unless we have an option to buy.

Wtf is this 2 CL finals in 3 years and we're loaning prospects to give them minutes and ship them back to another club. Are we Chievo?

Hopefully a BS rumour.
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Post by DeviAngel Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:30 pm

salmano9 wrote:Why are we trying to sign another midfielder? If we do, it means Bentancur will only play 5-7 games this season (most of them coming off the bench).


4-3-3
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Post by Luca Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:34 pm

4-3-3 means we would have three spots up top for Bernardeschi (40m), Dybala (42m), Higuain (94m), Douglas Costa (46m), Mandzukic (19m) and Cuadrado (20m).

It won't happen, we've built for the 4-2-3-1. We will play a 3 man midfield when it's called for but to sign another midfielder of any quality pushes someone else out. It really would not make much sense with the current group.

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Post by rincon Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:36 pm

no one ever includes Pjaca except Devi Laughing
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Post by Luca Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:46 pm

rincon wrote:no one ever includes Pjaca except Devi Laughing


Pjaca deserves inclusion but do we even have a report about his progress? Any timetable for even a proposed return?

I feel like he's loaned out in January. I still believe in him wholeheartedly.

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Post by rincon Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:51 pm

I think the most optimistic scenario was returning to full training in October. So who knows when he'll actually be match fit.
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Post by DeviAngel Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:14 am

rincon wrote:I think the most optimistic scenario was returning to full training in October. So who knows when he'll actually be match fit.


He is back in full training like for 2 weeks.

@rincon I include him because I know what talent he is and what he is capable of and I follow him since his younger days. He is C.Ronaldo type of player and has that potential.

btw @Luca a lot of reports suggest that Allegri wants to change to 4-3-3, Cuadrado will leave, we won't bring anyone to replace him but we will invest that money in a another CM. Those are the latest reports (Gomes, Sanchez) + Garay.

Allegri wants big and quality bench. Plus we changed to a front 3 in the last 20 minutes in the last match. Whoever thinks that Matuidi is bought so he can be a sub or rotate is mistaking. We will go for a 3 man midfield sooner or later, trust me.

-Dybala- Higuain-Costa-
-Pjaca- Mandzu - Berna
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Post by Luca Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:26 am

Personally, I love the 4-3-3 Devi. I just don't see it for how our squad is composed right now. If we do sign another midfielder then absolutely but much like the 3-5-2 was played not for desire at first but because it was the strength of our squad.

I think the only problem with the 4-3-3 is in the forwards, someone will suffer. Even if Cuadrado goes, we are left with the following:

Costa-Higuain-Dybala
Bernardeschi-Mandzukic-Pjaca

Assuming the first line is our preferred starting and the second is our reserve attack.

That's immense but it's really hard to drop Mandzukic, take minutes off Higuain or Dybala and things of this nature.

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Post by DeviAngel Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:30 am

Luca wrote:Personally, I love the 4-3-3 Devi. I just don't see it for how our squad is composed right now. If we do sign another midfielder then absolutely but much like the 3-5-2 was played not for desire at first but because it was the strength of our squad.

I think the only problem with the 4-3-3 is in the forwards, someone will suffer. Even if Cuadrado goes, we are left with the following:

Costa-Higuain-Dybala
Bernardeschi-Mandzukic-Pjaca

Assuming the first line is our preferred starting and the second is our reserve attack.

That's immense but it's really hard to drop Mandzukic, take minutes off Higuain or Dybala and things of this nature.


There were tactical changes in the second half, moving to 4-3-3 with Mario Mandzukic as the centre-forward and Dybala wide left.

“I wasn’t expecting to play in Mandzukic’s role, but I did play there at Palermo, so I am happy there too.”

hmm

Allegri also after the game

We can play with two in midfield, with three, with three and a half. The substitutions made a big impact tonight, as when you introduce Sami Khedira and Matuidi, obviously it’s going to make a difference.

“Mandzukic gives us physicality both defending and attacking. When we’re under pressure, we rely on him to a degree. He’s an important player and makes me angry every now and then when he has a bad night, like in some friendlies and against Lazio.”
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Post by salmano9 Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:51 am

@Luca It is almost impossible now to bench one of Mandzukic, Higuain and Dybala and playing 433 without one of: Bernardeschi, Costa, Cuadrado, Pjaca, [Keita]. It is easier than done in real life.

But, what Devi is saying does also make sense. Our bench would start in all other Serie A clubs. Probably one thing that Allegri and the management agreed on after the Cardiff final is that we are lacking depth and thus we bought extra attacking options + got a reliable midfielder in Matuidi. Allegri said that Pjanic could barely walk after the half-time in the final.

If we buy another midfielder, we will have 7 players fighting for 3 positions, which means less playing time for the back up midfielders, and it also means less playing time for our wingers given that HDM start.
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Post by Warrior Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:33 am

The only move we should still expect is Spinazzola coming back from his loan. The rest, i believe, are speculations for January if something goes wrong.

2017-2018 JUVENTUS FC is complete. It won't be perfect from the start but this squad has a great potential.
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Post by Warrior Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:14 am

I know most of you will disagree but i don't like Mandzukic as a winger, i hope we drop that soon.

If anything he should have a more fair rotation with Higuain. We don't want Higuain playing all the minutes like last year. Let's say Mandzukic starts one game out of 3 as a CF, i don't have a problem with that. Or he can start every CL game and i wouldn't mind. Or damn, play him as a CM instead of Sturaro. Not creative enough to play on the wings, we have better options, to me grinta does not compensate for everything he lacks in this position.

Imagine something like a 4-3-2-1

HIG
BER-DYB
MAT-PJA-MAR
SAN-CHI-RUG-LIC
BUFFON

This formation, or the 4-3-3 is more fluid than our current double pivot. Pjanic is only a creator, too much pressure on him and he becomes useless. It's worth trying Pjanic as a regista now that Matuidi is around, allow him to rest in front of the defense while Matuidi is the one running back and forth and doing the tackles.



We should make our own version of Napoli's attacking strategy and we have enough talent to do it. That's i what i realized last game, this is the way to maximise our success, taking the best our of everyone.

Most of the time we enter the opponent's zone like this, leaving our defense vulnerable. That specific double-pivot midfield is two lazy slobs not competent enough in tackles:

Mandzukic-Higuain-Cuadrado
Dybala
Sandro-Pjanic-Khedira-Licht
CB-CB

i'd prefer this as possession scheme, by very far:

Higuain
Bernardeschi-Dybala
Sandro-Matuidi-Marchisio-Licht
Pjanic
CB-CB

- free role for the attackers when we have posession, they track back of course
- Sandro-Matuidi-Marchisio-Lichtsteiner, that line is a defense before the defense, it gives a break to Pjanic
- Pjanic in a role ala Pirlo
- 2 cbs stay back and are helped by that 4 man line in the midfield, i have hated to see Chiellini making the long passes. Should concentrate on what he does best.



Forgive me about this long post, obviously i am not the one making decisions, all i'm saying is, those are the adjustments i'd like to see.
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