Re: 2017/18 English Football League Carabao Cup and FA Cup thread

[Unique]

lmao unreal smear campaign by sad little loserpool fans, like that changes anything about Firmino's disgusting behavior tonight. hope he gets banned for 8 games.

what did firmino do apart from getting thrown into the advertising boards. Looked to me like holgate didn’t like firmino robbing the ball off him.

racially abused good english lad Holgate

so he's probably just shot up 5 spaces in your fav player list

Suarez is still my top player. But does anyone have proof firmino did that or is it just idiots like you that are hoping he did it.

[Unique]

So firmino said to holgate are you mad you son of a bitch that’s why holgate got upset.

[Jay29]

Nobody knows what he said.

This was the exact moment that Firmino said something to enrage Holgate, unless you were on the pitch at that time you don't know what he said. We can clearly see when he called him Puta, we CAN'T see what he said here. pic.twitter.com/aa3t1R2VkN

— Nils (@Nilly905) January 6, 2018

[Unique]

Nobody knows what he said.

This was the exact moment that Firmino said something to enrage Holgate, unless you were on the pitch at that time you don't know what he said. We can clearly see when he called him Puta, we CAN'T see what he said here. pic.twitter.com/aa3t1R2VkN

— Nils (@Nilly905) January 6, 2018

there are lots of videos of him saying you crazy you crazy son of a bitch and lots of Portuguese speakers that can lip read him back that up. anything he said after that would have been when the ref was inbetween them and would have sent firmino off had he said anything racist infront of him. now I don't know 100% but I'm willing to bet that Holgate is not that fluent in Portuguese. my guess is he heared firmino screaming at him in Portuguese and thought I bet something in that rant was racist. anyway I love the way Holgate can just push someone over the advertising boards wich is common assult if you did that to a person on the street then gets outraged when he thinks he was called a name.

[Hapless_Hans]

Why doesn't Holgate get a red card for that push? Trying to play the victim here after that action is frankly nothing but disgusting.

[Nishankly]

As much as a *bleep* Holgate is, If Firmino has been racist, He needs to gtfo the club.

[Glory]

Some of those twitter reactions.

Apparently he said "Estas loco, hijo de puta"

Spoiler:

[RealGunner]

Doesn't really make sense for a Brazilian to call anyone the N word personally.

[Nishankly]

Half of the agenda on Twitter is him using a Spanish word that Suarez used. This world is so ignorant lmao, He speaks Portuguese ffs

@Glory yes that's the initial part. He said another sentence when the ref was pushing him away. This has come up now, People were calling hijo de puta thé racist speech before.

[Hapless_Hans]

As much as a *bleep* Holgate is, If Firmino has been racist, He needs to gtfo the club.

Nonsense. "If he has been racist" is such a weird thing to say. Holgate deserves to be abused by him in this situation, as that push was 100% thuggish. I'm sure the words Firmino selected were appropriate.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

There's no justification for racism Hans, don't be so stupid.

[Hapless_Hans]

There's no justification for racism Hans, don't be so stupid.

Where did I say that there was?  I'm saying it's disgusting and poor behaviour by fans to go down this road when obviously they have no idea what Firmino said other than that he swore at Holgate in Portuguese, and it's disgusting and poor behaviour by Holgate to be hard man enough to shove Firmino from behind but then cries to the ref, playing the victim, just because Firmino shouts at him.

What is Firmino even claimed to have said? Who claimed it? Why are we talking about this?

All I could see was disgusting, unsporting behaviour by Colgate.

[Nishankly]

As much as a *bleep* Holgate is, If Firmino has been racist, He needs to gtfo the club.

Nonsense. "If he has been racist" is such a weird thing to say. Holgate deserves to be abused by him in this situation, as that push was 100% thuggish. I'm sure the words Firmino selected were appropriate.

If someone is being thuggish c*ntish etc, It does not give you a free pass for racism and I hope you are not advocating anything else.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

As much as a *bleep* Holgate is, If Firmino has been racist, He needs to gtfo the club.

Nonsense. "If he has been racist" is such a weird thing to say. Holgate deserves to be abused by him in this situation, as that push was 100% thuggish. I'm sure the words Firmino selected were appropriate.

It's right there lol.

[Hapless_Hans]

As much as a *bleep* Holgate is, If Firmino has been racist, He needs to gtfo the club.

Nonsense. "If he has been racist" is such a weird thing to say. Holgate deserves to be abused by him in this situation, as that push was 100% thuggish. I'm sure the words Firmino selected were appropriate.

It's right there lol.

Calling someone 'son of a bitch' IS verbal abuse isn't it? You are saying that's out of line for Firmino?

[Unique]

its a bit like the evra case. he thought it was perfectly ok to tell suarez his sister and mother are both whores then was outraged when suarez abused him back. what happened to the old saying that if you give it out you have to take it back.

[Nishankly]

Agreed to a major extent but since the FA has charged both clubs with the situation and the fact Holgate has told the ref something that the ref had to report at the end of the game to the FA, So something happened, How it happened we'll see.

The minimum I am expecting is both Holgate and Firmino get a 2 game ban for the push and the insulting words.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

Nonsense. "If he has been racist" is such a weird thing to say. Holgate deserves to be abused by him in this situation, as that push was 100% thuggish. I'm sure the words Firmino selected were appropriate.

It's right there lol.

Calling someone 'son of a bitch' IS verbal abuse isn't it? You are saying that's out of line for Firmino?

No, you responded to Nish saying if he's been racist with he deserved it.

Now either you didn't use your words correctly which i'm gonna let you off seeing as it's not your natural language or you implied he deserved to be racially abused.

[Unique]

Agreed to a major extent but since the FA has charged both clubs with the situation and the fact Holgate has told the ref something that the ref had to report at the end of the game to the FA, So something happened, How it happened we'll see.

The minimum I am expecting is both Holgate and Firmino get a 2 game ban for the push and the insulting words.

the problem you have is if it comes down to ones word against the other the FA will have to side with Holgate. if the FA don't side with Holgate people will say the FA are racist because they recived a complaint and did nothing about it so if firmino has no video evidence to prove his case he is down the swaney.

[Hapless_Hans]

I mean this is all so incredibly silly.

A huge fuzz made over exactly WHAT insulting words a player utters. Some insulting words are insulting in an ok way, apparently, and some are unnacceptable.

I of course understand what's the point - racist insults, in this line of thought, betray an underlying racist mindset of the one who says it, and this is a mindset which football is trying to root out.
Technically speaking, of course, all insults are supposed to be insulting, and thus betray some kind of mindset.
Calling someone a "pig" betrays the mindset that could be claimed to do unjustice to actual pigs.
Calling someone a 'son of a bitch', is already sexist, if we're being honest.
But that's obviously not the point of outrage yet.
It only becomes outrage when Firmino, I don't know, called Holgate "black son of a bitch" instead of "son of a bitch"?
It's kind of bizarre, especially when we don't know what was said, and when we keep in mind different languages are involved.

I think it's silly.

Racism is real, and it's everywhere.
Racism, for example, is that there are no black PL referees even though there's a huge percentage of black players.

Of course, it's important to battle racist elements of language use, absolutely.
But here we are getting riled up about what Firmino, who's teammate with loads of black players, is supposed to have said to a guy he was in a shoving match in, it's IMO a complete waste of time.

[Hapless_Hans]

It's right there lol.

Calling someone 'son of a bitch' IS verbal abuse isn't it? You are saying that's out of line for Firmino?

No, you responded to Nish saying if he's been racist with he deserved it.

Now either you didn't use your words correctly which i'm gonna let you off seeing as it's not your natural language or you implied he deserved to be racially abused.

I did not. I said that after that push Holgate deserves to be abused by Firmino. I said nothing about 'racially', I have no tolerance whatsoever for racist remarks.
But frankly noone knows what Firmino is even suppose to have said.
What do you think? What would be a racial insult Firmino would use? I want specifics. Specific words.

Because just casually throwing this accusation out there is not ok.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

Apologies.

I assumed because Nish mentioned racism that you were responding to that part and then implying it's ok because Holgate was being a *bleep*.

My fault for only reading part of the conversation.

[Unique]

Calling someone 'son of a bitch' IS verbal abuse isn't it? You are saying that's out of line for Firmino?

No, you responded to Nish saying if he's been racist with he deserved it.

Now either you didn't use your words correctly which i'm gonna let you off seeing as it's not your natural language or you implied he deserved to be racially abused.

I did not. I said that after that push Holgate deserves to be abused by Firmino. I said nothing about 'racially', I have no tolerance whatsoever for racist remarks.
But frankly noone knows what Firmino is even suppose to have said.
What do you think? What would be a racial insult Firmino would use? I want specifics. Specific words.

Because just casually throwing this accusation out there is not ok.

well firmino definatly said you crazy you crazy son of a bitch. anything he said after that the ref would have heared him say it as he was holding both players apart. like I said this will just come down to Holgate saying he did it and firmino saying he didn't do it then it comes down to what side the FA take. but as I said the FA will have to side with Holgate or they will get called racist.

[Hapless_Hans]

Apologies.

I assumed because Nish mentioned racism that you were responding to that part and then implying it's ok because Holgate was being a *bleep*.

My fault for only reading part of the conversation.

Sure. But that's my point. We are not debating that there was 'abuse' happening.
But if we're going to argue about how inappropriate, or unnacceptable, the abuse was (and we are here talking about serious consequences, a ban, a player being known as a 'racist' which is not a nice thing to be known for, Liverpool fans wanting a key player to leave etc) we need to be careful, and specific.
I can't stand people getting outraged without being able to say what exactly their outrage is about. It's lazy, and reckless.

[Nishankly]

Lot of info here, Just hoping no one @ me.

Chelsea Norwich, Expecting a cupset coz Chelsea is trash.

[elfmeter]

It is so ridiculous that people are more outraged about what Fimino may or may not have said and not the blatant intent to injure, push from behind, into the boarding no less. Had some one done that to me in a game, i dont know what my spur of the moment reaction would have been, but probably a lot worse than whatever Firmino may or may not have said.

Is it worse to call someone without a know father a SOB or to call someone a MotherF&&&er, even though their mother is a saintly, tea drinking, church going choir snger, than to call a coloured person the N word? I personally would be more bothered by a personal insult (or assault) than being called kraut or honky (i know not the same as nig*&^) or white trash or anti Semite or whatever generic term is used to put down "my people".

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