Ernesto Valverde

zenmaster wrote:How bad was the game. Barcelona defending at 2-0 , my god.

Reinhard wrote:

zenmaster wrote:How bad was the game. Barcelona defending at 2-0 , my god.

Worst game I've ever seen Barca play, including the Bayern drubbings/ PSG away. We looked like a bunch of COWARDS, practically Roma's bitches. At the heart of this is Valverde, and for this I'll never forgive him unless he redeems himself in a royal fashion.

The Demon of Carthage wrote:

Reinhard wrote:

zenmaster wrote:How bad was the game. Barcelona defending at 2-0 , my god.

Worst game I've ever seen Barca play, including the Bayern drubbings/ PSG away. We looked like a bunch of COWARDS, practically Roma's bitches. At the heart of this is Valverde, and for this I'll never forgive him unless he redeems himself in a royal fashion.

He completely screwed up with his cowardly tactics in the CL, but if he wins the double, I don't think your board will fire him.

"It was strange to see Barcelona looking to protect the lead rather than impose their own game. They never do that, they always look to come and play..."

More from the midfielder on yesterday... #ASRoma #UCL #RomaBarcahttps://t.co/Qzz8sF6Jla

— AS Roma English (@ASRomaEN) April 11, 2018

Myesyats wrote:

alexjanosik wrote:To summarize my long winded post. With Messi gone, we can go back to playing our way and get results in Europe.

Bunch of gibberish

Messi is the only thing keeping us at the top right now while the entire team is clearly mismanaged and there's also the fact that we've been unable to make the right transfer moves in order to strenghten the squad properly.

There's so many things that Valverde keeps doing wrong, for instance: keeps playing Gomes when he clearly doesn't have anything to offer, uses Paulinho as a deep lying playmaker whilst he clearly has no playmaking skills and is only useful behind the striker / making runs into the box.

I could go on and on. He has absolutely no clue what he's doing, there's no movement on the pitch, no 1-2 touch play, nothing at all.

But yes, Messi is the problem and we should sell his ass, eh?

futbol_bill wrote:I can't get over this Barca distain for your current coach.

Here Valverde was cruising along looking like he was going to repeat what both Luis Enrique and Pep had done (win all three trophies), has just one bad game and now he has to go?

First question should be with who and will the replacement be any better?

Do you really feel acting like Madrid and sacking your coach ever 2nd year is a good path to follow?

tbh -I think your problems are much more about player recruitment and retention than about coach selection!

futbol_bill wrote:Junior, I can (I think).

Gomes looked ok at Valencia and likely Valverde recalls that. Both Madrid and Barca were after Gomes when he was looking ok.

What isn’t widely known or accepted is that some players can’t adjust to the pressures of playing for Barca or Madrid and they get exposed. Perhaps Valverde keeps thinking Gomes is the player he saw at Valencia.

I still can’t get over you guys after winning the liga in November, having such a long unbeaten stretch, likely winning copa this weekend and looking like a favourite to win CL, go on and on about dumping coach after losing one important game. Sure there have been questionable tactics and bad games during this time frame, but other than that one game the results were there. And I think you all acknowledge that the real problem has been the club’s recruitment over the past 3 or 4 years. I think you would be better off directing your disappointment at the recruitment director and your board!

The Franchise wrote:Mixed views.

In terms of his position, its clear he will continue next season and rightly so. Overall one game has cost him his reputation to some degree.

But I will say he has put himself under great pressure with that one game. I didnt expect to win the CL but to lose to this Roma side the way we lost, unacceptable in every way.

I won't go into the faults now in selection, tactics and mentally the team had in that 2nd leg but losing in that way will put him under a much closer microscope for next season than it would have been should we have won or even lost in a respectable way. No doubt. Anything but high-level performances and/or results and its the 2nd season then it would be the end I guess.

On one hand I will say only having Semedo, Dembele (coming off no preseason and subsequent injury) and Paulinho as tangible additions haven't helped. I would argue he has in some ways misused all 3 quite badly and not understood fully what their value is, but none the less those are just 2 players to a squad which needs a lot more. Coutinho obviously couldn't be used in the CL and the league had been wrapped up before his arrival, so really his signing is just a luxury and next season is where expectations will come for him and Valverde's use of him.

I read alot of talk and dislike for his 442 which I understand. But also I have some sympathy for him because I think defensively is the only workable formation which features Messi and Suarez together. I also think its the only workable formation defensively should Griezmann come for example.

Playing 433 will always give the same issue of what will you do about Messi defensively? He shouldnt and wouldnt be given an job which involves getting behind the ball during the defensive phase, and just as obviously he isnt going to be spending much focus on trying to pressure fullbacks and centerbacks into errors. Ultimately any version of 433 against a strong opponant will become a 442 in the defensive phase.

Check any team that plays 433 nowadays, you will see none of them which features 2 players without a defensive responsibility of getting behind the ball. 443 now means 10 players behind the ball if your without possession.

In attack, the question we ask is do we have to still remain in a 442? You get some variation on the flanks depending on who plays. Alba obviously stays on the wing and the guy in front of him (Coutinho/Iniesta/Gomes etc) plays in the half space, whereas on the right you have Roberto who plays in the half space and the winger Dembele who plays on the flank, obviously when Paulinho has played on the right he has been forced to play a similar role because Roberto has to play in the half space more than the wing and that exposes alot of Paulinho's weaknesses, especially when combined with the fact its a 442 and he will be much easier disconnected from the rest of the team should Messi not provide support (which he isnt, consistently).

But my question is what importance is 442? Our build up isnt good enough? Or we dont keep possession in ideal zones of the pitch? Or chance creation? Which of those 3 areas is 442 failing us?

I would argue our build up has been below the level of the very best build up teams long before 442 came. I think our players are no longer conditioned to play with a short build up, tactics aside, I dont think we have been coached to use short passes and combinations to escape high pressure. Nor we have the players or it seems the ideas of how to work from longer passes. Our build up hasnt been "right" in a long time.

In terms of keeping possession, especially in the opponants half. I would argue 442 is not the right way to play. We are probably better at defensive transistions in this formation but in terms of which the ball, its obviously tougher to keep extended spells of possession when you dont have numerical superority in the middle of the pitch. So you can argue we would be better in this area.

Last one is chance creation. Messi is the vast majority of our chance creation, directly or indirectly. Coutinho and Dembele are probably the guys behind him in that. Does 442 hinder these guys or the team in creation of chances. The eye test says not really, I dont think we struggle to create chances because of the 442.

But again I come back to my question, is 442 so important?

I ask because 442 is only a formation, our game method is what will win or lose games for us overall. That is what needs the questions more than 442.

Will our game method be good enough if we had more quality? Is having enough quality just one or two players away?

I think most teams have the system v quality dilemia when it comes to why they arent as succcessful as they should be. I think ours is a bit of both but I think Valverde is much more likely to look for improved quality of squad than a change in his game model.

Next season, I do expect a change if Griezmann comes. I would predict a 442 diamond in possession with Griezmann making alot of defensive effort to make it viable. Dembele moves to the bench, given his age and what I suspect is some lack of trust from Valverde anyway.

messixaviesta wrote:dani, really enjoyed reading that post.

I think Valverde, while not overly impressive to me, has done enough to deserve another year. Firing him now would be a case of being too trigger happy. Besides I can almost bet he is staying. The way he talks and the way the club talk about him suggests no imminent change at all. Like you I also think it will probably be his last season. He will have to step up on multiple counts to get a third season which I don't think he has in him though for the sake of Barca I hope I am wrong.

As for next season's team I do not completely support the obsession with Griezmann. I think we need a regista above all, someone who can help us hold on to the ball and build up better. Not even looking for the next Xavi or Iniesta since they frankly do not exist but a good player who can play that kind of role well is needed. We need to choose carefully and would do well to look back at how well we had done in signing Rakitic at the right time.

alexjanosik wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Mixed views.

In terms of his position, its clear he will continue next season and rightly so. Overall one game has cost him his reputation to some degree.

But I will say he has put himself under great pressure with that one game. I didnt expect to win the CL but to lose to this Roma side the way we lost, unacceptable in every way.

I won't go into the faults now in selection, tactics and mentally the team had in that 2nd leg but losing in that way will put him under a much closer microscope for next season than it would have been should we have won or even lost in a respectable way. No doubt. Anything but high-level performances and/or results and its the 2nd season then it would be the end I guess.

On one hand I will say only having Semedo, Dembele (coming off no preseason and subsequent injury) and Paulinho as tangible additions haven't helped. I would argue he has in some ways misused all 3 quite badly and not understood fully what their value is, but none the less those are just 2 players to a squad which needs a lot more. Coutinho obviously couldn't be used in the CL and the league had been wrapped up before his arrival, so really his signing is just a luxury and next season is where expectations will come for him and Valverde's use of him.

I read alot of talk and dislike for his 442 which I understand. But also I have some sympathy for him because I think defensively is the only workable formation which features Messi and Suarez together. I also think its the only workable formation defensively should Griezmann come for example.

Playing 433 will always give the same issue of what will you do about Messi defensively? He shouldnt and wouldnt be given an job which involves getting behind the ball during the defensive phase, and just as obviously he isnt going to be spending much focus on trying to pressure fullbacks and centerbacks into errors. Ultimately any version of 433 against a strong opponant will become a 442 in the defensive phase.

Check any team that plays 433 nowadays, you will see none of them which features 2 players without a defensive responsibility of getting behind the ball. 443 now means 10 players behind the ball if your without possession.

In attack, the question we ask is do we have to still remain in a 442? You get some variation on the flanks depending on who plays. Alba obviously stays on the wing and the guy in front of him (Coutinho/Iniesta/Gomes etc) plays in the half space, whereas on the right you have Roberto who plays in the half space and the winger Dembele who plays on the flank, obviously when Paulinho has played on the right he has been forced to play a similar role because Roberto has to play in the half space more than the wing and that exposes alot of Paulinho's weaknesses, especially when combined with the fact its a 442 and he will be much easier disconnected from the rest of the team should Messi not provide support (which he isnt, consistently).

But my question is what importance is 442? Our build up isnt good enough? Or we dont keep possession in ideal zones of the pitch? Or chance creation? Which of those 3 areas is 442 failing us?

I would argue our build up has been below the level of the very best build up teams long before 442 came. I think our players are no longer conditioned to play with a short build up, tactics aside, I dont think we have been coached to use short passes and combinations to escape high pressure. Nor we have the players or it seems the ideas of how to work from longer passes. Our build up hasnt been "right" in a long time.

In terms of keeping possession, especially in the opponants half. I would argue 442 is not the right way to play. We are probably better at defensive transistions in this formation but in terms of which the ball, its obviously tougher to keep extended spells of possession when you dont have numerical superority in the middle of the pitch. So you can argue we would be better in this area.

Last one is chance creation. Messi is the vast majority of our chance creation, directly or indirectly. Coutinho and Dembele are probably the guys behind him in that. Does 442 hinder these guys or the team in creation of chances. The eye test says not really, I dont think we struggle to create chances because of the 442.

But again I come back to my question, is 442 so important?

I ask because 442 is only a formation, our game method is what will win or lose games for us overall. That is what needs the questions more than 442.

Will our game method be good enough if we had more quality? Is having enough quality just one or two players away?

I think most teams have the system v quality dilemia when it comes to why they arent as succcessful as they should be. I think ours is a bit of both but I think Valverde is much more likely to look for improved quality of squad than a change in his game model.

Next season, I do expect a change if Griezmann comes. I would predict a 442 diamond in possession with Griezmann making alot of defensive effort to make it viable. Dembele moves to the bench, given his age and what I suspect is some lack of trust from Valverde anyway.

Nice to have you back dani. You mention 2 critical problems with the 4-4-2. Build up and possession in the middle and opponents half. The build up is an issue. You seem to imply that it could be a personnel issues. If I understood you correctly, curious to know why you think so.

I think the personnel are just fine, especially in the defensive phase. Mats is elite with the ball for a GK. Pique is Pique. Umtiti is at the very least as good as Masche barring long passes. Alba is the same. Semedo is decent on the ball but nowhere close to Alves at buildup. Busi and Rakitic are the same.

The Franchise wrote:

messixaviesta wrote:dani, really enjoyed reading that post.

I think Valverde, while not overly impressive to me, has done enough to deserve another year. Firing him now would be a case of being too trigger happy. Besides I can almost bet he is staying. The way he talks and the way the club talk about him suggests no imminent change at all. Like you I also think it will probably be his last season. He will have to step up on multiple counts to get a third season which I don't think he has in him though for the sake of Barca I hope I am wrong.

As for next season's team I do not completely support the obsession with Griezmann. I think we need a regista above all, someone who can help us hold on to the ball and build up better. Not even looking for the next Xavi or Iniesta since they frankly do not exist but a good player who can play that kind of role well is needed. We need to choose carefully and would do well to look back at how well we had done in signing Rakitic at the right time.

Intresting. A regista? Like who? I can only think of maybe a handful and all of whom would clash with Busquets, unless you mean something different?

messixaviesta wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

messixaviesta wrote:dani, really enjoyed reading that post.

I think Valverde, while not overly impressive to me, has done enough to deserve another year. Firing him now would be a case of being too trigger happy. Besides I can almost bet he is staying. The way he talks and the way the club talk about him suggests no imminent change at all. Like you I also think it will probably be his last season. He will have to step up on multiple counts to get a third season which I don't think he has in him though for the sake of Barca I hope I am wrong.

As for next season's team I do not completely support the obsession with Griezmann. I think we need a regista above all, someone who can help us hold on to the ball and build up better. Not even looking for the next Xavi or Iniesta since they frankly do not exist but a good player who can play that kind of role well is needed. We need to choose carefully and would do well to look back at how well we had done in signing Rakitic at the right time.

Intresting. A regista? Like who? I can only think of maybe a handful and all of whom would clash with Busquets, unless you mean something different?

Maybe not so much in terms of playing position but in playing style. Someone who can hold on to the ball. We cannot have Gomes or Paulinho play for us in UCL knockouts or Classicos. Coutinho and Dembele on either wing will be too aggressive. Busquets is great and Rakitic has done an impressive job for us right since his signing but we need more. We need at least one more player in the center to calm things down. At one time I had pinpointed Ilkay Gundogan and later Marco Verratti. Neither is at the level they were then. At this point in time I cannot zero in on a definite name. Best would be a shrewd signing like Rakitic was in 2014.