Re: EURO 2016 France - R16 - England Vs Iceland

by rwo power Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:06 pm

Jay29 wrote:England play warm-up friendlies before the tournament "experimenting" and "finding the best formation". A month before the tournament even begins. No other nation does this.

Germany are usually still "experimenting" and "finding the best formation" during the group stage of a tournament, so that shouldn't be an argument ^^

by Doc Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:09 pm

Germany have players that have been improved under Pep so they can do anything and it would still work Proud

Also better footballers do better things.

by RealGunner Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:15 pm

Think the match was lost when the team news came through. Lallana, who has been one of our best players, was dropped in place of Sterling who has been one of our worst. No idea why Roy decided that. Maybe he thought Sterling would suddenly start performing to his liverpool days? Only Roy can answer that question.

2nd problem was playing Rooney as a pivot in a 4-2-3-1. Once again, no idea why Roy did that but Rooney definitely gave us one of the worst performance since Masimo Taibi in 1999. He wasn't interested in building from the back because all his passes went stray or backwards. Dier who I thought was good in the first two matches was quite invisible and ineffective. He isn't the one to build either so there is that. Alli played like someone who wants to play upfront and not in midfield.

Then we have Kane upfront who has had a terrible tournament. Sturridge tried but came to nothing. Walker and Rose have a combined IQ of 20 so there wasn't much to expect from them either

Roy brings on Wilshere at HT and plays him as a DM lmao.

And then Roy's next genius plan was to bring on Vardy. So we then had 3 strikers waiting for service instead of 2.

Rashford came on and probably was our MOTM inside 2 mins. He actually DRIBBLED. Probably the first time I have seen an english forward dribble since Rooney in Euro 2004.

Absolutely disgraceful.

by McAgger Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:19 pm

btw there's no Iceland flag logo, or are my eyes deceiving me?

by Jay29 Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:27 pm

rwo power wrote:
Jay29 wrote:England play warm-up friendlies before the tournament "experimenting" and "finding the best formation". A month before the tournament even begins. No other nation does this.
Germany are usually still "experimenting" and "finding the best formation" during the group stage of a tournament, so that shouldn't be an argument ^^

That's not really true, though. The core of your team or your style of play doesn't change despite a couple of personnel changes. Germany know exactly what they're doing, England very clearly do not.

by RealGunner Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:29 pm

Germany can play any experimental system as long as they have Kroos, Boateng, Ozil, Neuer, Muller and Hummels and they will win the match 90%

by rwo power Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:33 pm

Flag of Iceland if RG wants to upload it: EURO 2016 France - R16 - England Vs Iceland - Page 6 Flag_o10

by RealGunner Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:34 pm

Not sure if we have anyone from Iceland here?

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:36 pm

I'm from Iceland.

by Jay29 Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:38 pm

I just did that Ancestry.com DNA test and it turns out I'm 1.76435% Icelandic.

by rwo power Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:44 pm

Wasn't England invaded by Vikings in the past? I bet they shared Icelandic DNA, too. ^^

by Doc Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:22 am

I'm from the Caribbean so I'm definitely Icelandic.

by CBarca Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:40 am

I'm pro Iceland but yeah they did PTB and counter. Yes, they did have all their men packed in tight lines around their box. The only difference between what Iceland looked like and what Chelsea from their CL run looked like was that because Hodgson decided to forego the concept of a midfield, England had no one that could hold the ball for more than a couple seconds in the middle of the field between lines so a lot of the game was spent with England passing along their backline or out wide, and Iceland were able to push up a bit more than a typical PTB team.

That's not me disparaging Iceland, but I'm not sure what else you call 11 men behind the ball. It's people trying to paint Iceland in a more positive light and therefore calling it something different. If that was Chelsea out there or a Mou team you would never hear the end of it.

I've been pro Iceland since day bread anyway. I am, after all, .2678% Icelandic. Good to see my compatriots Doc and Jay here supporting the team Molenation

Anyway, if you wanted to get into it, all of it came down to that lack of a midfield for England. It broke the entire system down, and it makes Roy's tactical decisions even more suspect. For example, if you're going to forego a midfield, why are you playing Sturridge instead of Lallana (one of the decisions that did destroy the midfield)? He's not able to get the ball, had to come to deep too often and was turned into a crossing striker, whatever the hell that is (which he wasn't good at bar the first ball to Sterling). If you forego a midfield, why are you playing outside backs that like to get up the field? There is a reason Danny Rose and Kyle Walker work for spurs 1) Spurs press as a team so they're defensive inability isn't shown as much and 2) Spurs have Dier and Dembele in midfield combined with Eriksen and Lamela out wide, all of whom are able to hold the ball, keep control under pressure, and find a teammate with a pass accurately.

By not having any midfielders who could actually do that, you discourage Rose and Walker from getting up the field. Why get up the field when you're 1) not going to receive a pass and 2) going to be exposed if that midfielder misses their pass (which happened VERY often). This was a vicious circle too, by having more reserved Walker and Rose out there, you limit your options for the little midfield England did have.

Finally, and it goes without saying, the likes of Sterling and Kane, who DID try to push up and DID try to push the line early in the game often found themselves incredibly isolated and without a chance to get the ball or impact the game. They were both terrible anyway but Hodgson didn't help them.

The players performance and desire should be heavily criticized and hopefully will be. They were awful. I would argue however that the performance was in large part due to Roy getting everything wrong by deciding that playing Dier with two SS's and then striker-wingers (Sterling/Sturridge as opposed to Lallana) comprised a solid midfield.

Then he made it worse by refusing to sub off Rooney, who had one of the worst individual performances I've ever seen, and then subbing on more strikers. Only thing he got right the whole game was playing Wilshere, who should have started.

Don't know if I've ever seen such tactical mismanagement in my life. LvG would be proud.