Gunners at the Euros (and Copa America)

Watching Italy vs Spain


Think we saw how Chelsea vs Arsenal will look like next season

No different than usual, then.

Bellerin coming home early after not playing a single game. One of the players who really could do with a rest.

So at the moment the players still on international duty are Szczesny, Ramsey, Ozil, Koscielny, Giroud and Wilshere. At this point they'll likely miss all of pre-season.

At least Wilshere is getting proper fitness work in and is practising as well despite not playing. Should do a lot of good for him for us.

Rest desperately needs rest.

Szczesny's future in the air

Wilshere's coming home. Don't think he needs a holiday, really. He's kind of just had one.

Ozil and Ramsey in the semi finals. Koscielny and Giroud to follow if they win against Iceland

both Mesut and Rambo Amongst best performers in this competition IMO
happy for them
but not sure if that's good thing for Arsenal though
will miss them for start of the season

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmypuS1WcAAr9Hi.jpg

Ozil will return like 3 days earlier than expected now?

https://amp.twimg.com/v/ca1ef1c0-6d1e-4ee9-b6ea-a3bcd07472e7

So, it wasn't meant to be for Koscielny or Giroud in the final. It'll take some time for them to recover from that defeat - wouldn't be surprised if it effected their performances for us.

Overall, though, it's been a decent Euros for our players, with four making the semi's - Ramsey has a legit shout for being in team of the tournament, Ozil came to life in the knockouts and Kos and Giroud performed well too. Xhaka stood out during the group stages.

Kos was at fault for the goal, didn't stuck with his target til the end, he will feel bad for awhile. Giroud did ok, it's not like Gignac or Martial did any better.

I really hope France would win it so our French guys could bring back some of that fire, wasnt meant to be. Ramsey was good so hopefully he could free roam on the right wing, also excited to see Xhaka combo up in the middle.

I really like Giroud/ Griezman duo, here hoping Wengers thinking about trying Sanchez in the same set up. Giroud was stactic but he had orbits aroud who are big goal threat like Griezman, Payet. That of course is the case if we dont buy any striker, quite likely at this point.

Where's Ozil going to play if Sanchez plays behind Giroud?

I do NOT want to see the Özil-on-wings BS ever.

In order to play two strikers, you'd have to play a, for example, 4-4-2 which means that Oezil will have to be positioned deeper. He does not have the lungs, defensive attributes and his skills will be wasted there. There is not place for Oezil but in the hole, behind the strikers. Nevermind our wide players aren't exactly top quality.

France didnt exactly play 442, their midfield is quite dynamic. I do not mean a rigid 442, just more freedom for Sanchez & the other guy on the other wing.

Who is this guy on the other wing? Campbell? Ox (Ox would do nicely, actually)? Walcott ?

France played with Matuidi and frakking Pogba. Both of them can defend and push forwards if needed. The thing is, you would have to play Oezil deeper and that just kills his effectiveness and team solidity because he's not a defensive player.

We have an excess of quality central players. There always have to be a midfield of 3. The other problem is our lack of options out wide. Putting Sanchez as a striker would mean average players down the wings, and thus make the team more predictable.


I think that's the ideal formation for the type of players we have. The problem ain't tactics, but Wenger buying players of enough caliber to look at the starting XI and not have a single moment of "if we had a better player in X position, we'd be a much better team".

The other wing would be Ramsey with his Euro form, again with freedom to roam. You seem to think wingers have to stay on the wings, that rarely works for Arsenal to hug the lines. Barca plays 433 but their front three have license to rotate, roam at will, that's what I want.

Tactics were big problem last season, hard to say other wise. We played several dire & static games against opponents we should have beaten with our bench.

Sushi Master wrote: The problem ain't tactics, but Wenger buying players of enough caliber to look at the starting XI and not have a single moment of "if we had a better player in X position, we'd be a much better team".

Word.

Twoism wrote:Barca plays 433 but their front three have license to rotate, roam at will, that's what I want.

I see a big problem with that at Arsenal. Our players are given a lot of license by Wenger to play and develop themselves and all that crap. Problem is, when you put them on pitch and give them all freedom, we end up as headless chickens. It has happened way too often that players all converge on one area of the pitch and leave gaping holes in others. Free roaming only works when the team as a unit is fluid enough to plug those holes before they appear. We never ever do that. That's when we get crushed in big games.

And we slowly working on it, with the signing of Xhaka & Elneny. I know it's absurd to compare teams and such but freaking Chile & Wales could make it work. It's pointless to talk all these stuffs though, the only man who makes the difference is Wengers, we will see how he adapt & evolve.

You can't trust Ramsey to maintain his Euro form the whole season, though. Which is why I still believe a new winger is in order. And no, I do not think wingers have to hug the line. In modern football, you have the fullbacks for that. All those players you see on the "wings" are in narrower roles in which they can freely move in whatever attacking position is needed or opens up. Again, central players are our strength, so central play will always be instrumental. Plus, there's the Oezil factor.

Yes, I agree there were some extremely null games, but with how famous Arsenal are with injuries, and the grueling PL campaign that can tire out any player (nevermind we had 2 international cups, which means pre-season is cut extremely short) MORE quality is needed off the bench. I'm sorry, but those players you think can beat most teams off the bench ain't actually really that good. More quality is needed off the bench. Sanogo, Gnabry, Walcott, Ox, Iwobi... they are not players to enter a game and make a difference.

Twoism wrote:And we slowly working on it, with the signing of Xhaka & Elneny. I know it's absurd to compare teams and such but freaking Chile & Wales could make it work. It's pointless to talk all these stuffs though, the only man who makes the difference is Wengers, we will see how he adapt & evolve.

The thing is, not only are the more defensive oriented players responsible of keeping the team's shape. The WHOLE team is responsible. As Sri said, if you have your whole team playing with "freedom", this just leaves gaping holes which are easily exploited by any half decent team (hence all those loses against small teams we should be easily beating. Difference between all those PL champions and us).

The idea is to find a balance between team shape and giving certain players the freedom to perform. You know, to not be ManU under Van Gaal but not classic Wenger tactics of losing leads or not knowing how to grind out results when needed.

If you are using Chile and Wales as examples, well... Chile are extremely solid. Only certain players are allowed the freedom you desire, but overall they maintain their defensive shape extremely well and it just shows on the success they've had these past years. Wales did a good job and pretty much the only player with a license to roam was Ramsey. You can't expect him to have that much freedom with Oezil beside you, because obviously the freedom is going to him.

Diamonds are forever lads:

I swear Jay has been pushing for the Diamond for like 2 or 3 years

Diamonds are to me what Hulk is to RG

I don't blame you tbh, they are always very good in football games

To be fair the 4231 with Ramsey playing on the right is the closest we ever got to playing a diamond and it was successful then. I wouldn't mind seing something similar next season only with a different CF.

Still remember 2-3 years ago when we tried to start the season with 4-1-4-1 and it horribly backfired so wenger reverted back to 4-2-3-1. Obviously title race was done by then and we were like 18 points behind in november


can't see arsene ever experimenting again

it's either 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 or 4-4-42