Zidane Sack Watch

futbol wrote:Holy shit, a wild Doc appears out of nowhere.

Doc.

Yeah, last year Uni things. Had to do some very extreme methods to ensure I don't mess up final exams like hide my computer and laptop away so I wouldn't be distracted by God's gift to humanity that is PC gaming. So football and GL ended up feeling collateral damage as well.

It's proving tough to read all what I missed so I'm gonna assume Harmonica has finally accepted Neymar is a decent footballer?

ok , i took a deep breath , just stopped laughing from your stuff . I am alright now (:

Moving on , yes i knew all that , everybody does , does any of it explain you saying Zidane has to do at least as good as Ancelotti , otherwise he would deserve the sack?

It doesn't

Who even demands a nobody in the coaching world as Zidane to do at least as good as Ancelotti , let alone get sacked if he doesn't manage as much , is honestly beyond me. Besides , from free pass , to what you said there , there's a noticeable difference ; Of course he wasn't hired for the lolz and certain things are to be expected of him , but i was circlejerking about what YOU , said . Not why Perez hired him for .

You actually went even further this time , oh my  

Is that so now , if he wins or comes very close , just maybe he can be kept ?? just maybe ?

can you stop please

I wish Zidane does well , he's definitely gonna need all the luck he can get if he's to do at least as good as Ancelotti (:

Dante wrote:

The Demon of Carthage wrote:I don't know why some Barça fans think Zidane has fanboys here. Sports defends him because he's French and he's always had a soft spot for his countrymen.

But from my point of view and several other Madrid fans, Zidane has no excuse not to succeed. He has a great squad and Carlo's blueprints. If he doesn't win anything come June, he can show himself the door.

Nobody is making excuses for him and certainly don't want him to stick around if he fails to do at least as good as Carlo.

I agree , Zidane has no excuse really . He should be sacked if he doesn't do at least as good as Ancelotti imo . I mean , even Ancelotti himself didn't do at least as good as Ancelotti and was righteously sacked after all , why should Zidane be excused ? It all makes sense imo .

Totally , and like you said , Zidane has his blueprints too , he knows the title-winning Ancelotti ways . Zidane can simply copy pasta Ancelotti 2014 and raise his eyebrow , play the same way and just win stuff . Of course fans can only demand Zidane to be as good as Ancelotti , those few people saying he's inexperienced and have 0 expectations from him(wtf?) and all that are clueless , if he doesn't win anything with this super balanced galacticos V.3 team , it will simply be Zidane's fault for not doing an accurate copy-paste of Ancelotti's blueprints. I mean , who's to blame other than himself if he doesn't do as good as Carlo did ?

Of course , Carlo was doing at least as good as Carlo , following the Ancelotti blueprints , but he didn't win anything in his 2nd season , so the sack was the only reasonable thing to do obviously . In fact , i think even if Zidane manages to successfully copy paste the Carlo blueprints , i think if he somehow can only manage to win just the Cup.. i think he should be sacked , just in case.  Definitely , that is what sane Madrid fans should expect and much more importantly demand from Zidane , and dare i say it ? Every other coach that comes after , forever. And how it could be otherwise. Perez really knows where it's at and finally fans have begun to understand really.

Besides , Guardiola did it . Why Zidane couldn't ? Is there any difference whatsoever , no , so Zidane is expected to win or gtfo , logically speaking always . I hear Zidane also has deep admiration for Guardiola and his sporting policies , combine that with the fact that he also has the Ancelotti blueprints and what could possibly come to his defence , if he doesn't win anything?? Benitez had his fair chance , got 4 entire months and a preseason . He failed. Zidane will also have his fair chance , another 4 months and he won't even have to do a preseason , already half the work done for him lel

I love sarcastic qoutes, and this one right here is gold...but..Coming from a fan of the most successful club in the world you ought to respect the Madrid fans high expectations/arrogance more. If AC Milan's fans were this arrogant I bet you wouldn't be a mid table team right now. Milan fans ought to feel as the best sh*t ever with their teams international trophy count and expect nothing less than a trophy ever damn season, but because of your mentality nobody respects you and the most successful club in the world relinquishes in mid table in freaking Serie zzzzz because that mentality...Loser mentality really.

Edit: Just saw an earlier comment made in the Benitez thread resembling mine(it was posted earlier than mine) but the critique still stands. Milan fans should be more arrogant and they should riot to get those coons in charge out.

What Real Madrid was thinking. They asked Pep to take over Before they appoint Zidane as a coach.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03dlfhw

How biggest anti-madridista would become Real Madrd coach. The guy is Catalan independentist through and through a Culé.

Beautiful Football wrote:What Real Madrid was thinking. They asked Pep to take over Before they appoint Zidane as a coach.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03dlfhw

How biggest anti-madridista would become Real Madrd coach. The guy is Catalan independentist through and through a Culé.

says who? Graham hunter the self proclaimed pep fanboy. Wouldnt read too much into it.

lol what a ridiculous statement, but I guess Graham Hunter is God and his quotes are to be believed and taken as facts.

Real Madrid wouldn't let a Catalan be a ballboy, let alone coach of the first team.

InterMalia wrote:

Dante wrote:

The Demon of Carthage wrote:I don't know why some Barça fans think Zidane has fanboys here. Sports defends him because he's French and he's always had a soft spot for his countrymen.

But from my point of view and several other Madrid fans, Zidane has no excuse not to succeed. He has a great squad and Carlo's blueprints. If he doesn't win anything come June, he can show himself the door.

Nobody is making excuses for him and certainly don't want him to stick around if he fails to do at least as good as Carlo.

I agree , Zidane has no excuse really . He should be sacked if he doesn't do at least as good as Ancelotti imo . I mean , even Ancelotti himself didn't do at least as good as Ancelotti and was righteously sacked after all , why should Zidane be excused ? It all makes sense imo .

Totally , and like you said , Zidane has his blueprints too , he knows the title-winning Ancelotti ways . Zidane can simply copy pasta Ancelotti 2014 and raise his eyebrow , play the same way and just win stuff . Of course fans can only demand Zidane to be as good as Ancelotti , those few people saying he's inexperienced and have 0 expectations from him(wtf?) and all that are clueless , if he doesn't win anything with this super balanced galacticos V.3 team , it will simply be Zidane's fault for not doing an accurate copy-paste of Ancelotti's blueprints. I mean , who's to blame other than himself if he doesn't do as good as Carlo did ?

Of course , Carlo was doing at least as good as Carlo , following the Ancelotti blueprints , but he didn't win anything in his 2nd season , so the sack was the only reasonable thing to do obviously . In fact , i think even if Zidane manages to successfully copy paste the Carlo blueprints , i think if he somehow can only manage to win just the Cup.. i think he should be sacked , just in case.  Definitely , that is what sane Madrid fans should expect and much more importantly demand from Zidane , and dare i say it ? Every other coach that comes after , forever. And how it could be otherwise. Perez really knows where it's at and finally fans have begun to understand really.

Besides , Guardiola did it . Why Zidane couldn't ? Is there any difference whatsoever , no , so Zidane is expected to win or gtfo , logically speaking always . I hear Zidane also has deep admiration for Guardiola and his sporting policies , combine that with the fact that he also has the Ancelotti blueprints and what could possibly come to his defence , if he doesn't win anything?? Benitez had his fair chance , got 4 entire months and a preseason . He failed. Zidane will also have his fair chance , another 4 months and he won't even have to do a preseason , already half the work done for him lel

I love sarcastic qoutes, and this one right here is gold...but..Coming from a fan of the most successful club in the world you ought to respect the Madrid fans high expectations/arrogance more. If AC Milan's fans were this arrogant I bet you wouldn't be a mid table team right now. Milan fans ought to feel as the best sh*t ever with their teams international trophy count and expect nothing less than a trophy ever damn season, but because of your mentality nobody respects you and the most successful club in the world relinquishes in mid table in freaking Serie zzzzz because that mentality...Loser mentality really.

Edit: Just saw an earlier comment made in the Benitez thread resembling mine(it was posted earlier than mine) but the critique still stands. Milan fans should be more arrogant and they should riot to get those coons in charge out.

Arrogance? Where has that got them in the past 10 or so years? All they care about is buying players who can sell shirts, not players who can actually fit into their system. They paid the price for selling Makelele, one of the biggest mistakes and everyone keeps saying it, instead they were busy buying celebrities like Beckham. The past few years, they bought Bale, Kroos, and Hames, while selling Ozil, Alonso, and Di Maria. Now, look at them, clearly unbalanced. Instead of buying role players, they bought stars that they didn't need in the first place.

And lol @ expecting Milan fans to be arrogant, you think we agree with the current management? You think some Disney-like-conviction-Pocahantos shit is gonna somehow sprinkle some fairy dust and off the management goes and poof no more midtable? News flahs, no amount of boycott, protest, disagreement can get them out, and its been tried and tested over the past few years. Its ironic, really for all the shit i give Mole about NUFC, we're in the same predicament as them recently.

Loser mentality smh, as if the years following your treble win didn't happen

I'm not saying Milan is a more dignified club than them, or better or whatever. Milan has made mistakes, Madrid has, Inter, etc. All fans have a right to demand a duty of care from their clubs. Its just that the degree of expectation is varied relative to each club's current situation.

The Demon of Carthage wrote:lol what a ridiculous statement, but I guess Graham Hunter is God and his quotes are to be believed and taken as facts.

Real Madrid wouldn't let a Catalan be a ballboy, let alone coach of the first team.

http://www.realmadrid.com/en/about-real-madrid/history/presidents/juan-padros

V wrote:

The Demon of Carthage wrote:lol what a ridiculous statement, but I guess Graham Hunter is God and his quotes are to be believed and taken as facts.

Real Madrid wouldn't let a Catalan be a ballboy, let alone coach of the first team.

http://www.realmadrid.com/en/about-real-madrid/history/presidents/juan-padros

Said this before, some of this bandwagoners don't realise that Madrid was founded by Catalans

Ironically ZIdane said his favourite team in SPain was Barcelona as well

Perez and the Real bosses would be absolutely mad if they didn't at least ASK Pep and make him an offer.

It's a no brainer really, and I'm sure they tried, whether Catalan, Moorish, or Anarcho-Mallorcan.

free_cat wrote:

sportsczy wrote:Nick

How it happens (and most big clubs work like this btw) is that, either the technical direction is mandated from the club or the senior club's management....  some follow the national technical direction for their youth teams.  

For Madrid, it used to be the national direction.  But when Mou arrived, he was adamant that Castilla was there to serve Real Madrid and not the national teams.  So that was changed to follow the senior team's technical direction.  Been that way ever since.

Absolutely no club follows order from the national team for their youths, and I don't know of any that forces a set in stone formation. Even at Barcelona, where the youth system is the most rigid in Spain, coaches have their autonomy. Luis Enrique used to play different formations at the B and especially different style.

The technical direction (as they call it in France) sets the curriculum for the coaching training and testing... they also set requirements for receiving funding from the FA. That's how they implement a general direction for the youth academies, although each club is welcome to deviate if they don't need any financial assistance (all do in France except PSG).

I know for a fact that Germany, France and the Netherlands operate like this... which is why you saw a revolution in the style of all german clubs over the last 15 years. Also the reason why almost all Dutch clubs play total football. France has done it forever... and in 2012, they changed the parameters to follow the Spanish model as opposed to the defensive/physical/defensive emphasis that existed before (which is how Griezmann had to leave for Spain as a kid as an example).

Top clubs can do what they want since they may not need the money and assistance. But 99% of the clubs need the help so they follow suit.

Please don't tell me that Barca doesn't follow a consistent philosophy at its core at all levels. It's not so rigid that a manager can't bring some wrinkles. But you're never going to see Barca deviate to the point where the core concepts are compromised.

Just so people know... as part of the licensing requirement in France, prospective managers must go visit several clubs and write a paper about what they observed for each. Zidane chose Bayern and several other clubs (i think Juve and PSG were in there).

Hapless_Hans wrote:Perez and the Real bosses would be absolutely mad if they didn't at least ASK Pep and make him an offer.

It's a no brainer really, and I'm sure they tried, whether Catalan, Moorish, or Anarcho-Mallorcan.

No. Its not a no brainer. No body asked for Pep Guardiola.

Adit wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:Perez and the Real bosses would be absolutely mad if they didn't at least ASK Pep and make him an offer.

It's a no brainer really, and I'm sure they tried, whether Catalan, Moorish, or Anarcho-Mallorcan.

No. Its not a no brainer. No body asked for Pep Guardiola.

It is a no brainer. I'm sure they asked him.

i told you yesterday was your day off, now you continue with this

Barca follow a club wide policy and philosophy, from first team to academy, they dont play at the whims of the first team manager. You are comparing able and oranges.

Your argument yesterday was "Benitez dictates what kind of formation Zidane is using" which was terribly untrue when last season under carlo zidane started with a 4231 when the first team was playing 442/433. Same this season he went directly for a 433 when Benitez started with a 4231.

Frankly, i cant believe you are trying to convince us with this stuff. No one is buying it. Zidane had his castilla team play like meh most of the times, they have no clue how to team, that was him, not some schemes Benitez or Ancelotti were forcing him to do against his wishes.

Yes, all clubs say the fancy things like we want the same philosophy everywhere,  blablabla, we want attacking football, but end of the day Zidane was INDEPENDENT. Not sure why are trying to convince us otherwise. It's the past anyway, we will see what he does now.

And as for him visiting Bielsa and Pep etc..., it really doesnt mean anything until he has success and implements something like they did. If he gets there, we will say he learnt from them, but im pretty sure that a lot of people study them and still cant do as well as them. You are in full fanboy mode here sports lol

Hapless_Hans wrote:

Adit wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:Perez and the Real bosses would be absolutely mad if they didn't at least ASK Pep and make him an offer.

It's a no brainer really, and I'm sure they tried, whether Catalan, Moorish, or Anarcho-Mallorcan.

No. Its not a no brainer. No body asked for Pep Guardiola.

It is a no brainer. I'm sure they asked him.

Your sure based on what? You are really detached from reality if you think pep coaching Madrid in 2016 is a possibility.

Adit wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:Perez and the Real bosses would be absolutely mad if they didn't at least ASK Pep and make him an offer.

It's a no brainer really, and I'm sure they tried, whether Catalan, Moorish, or Anarcho-Mallorcan.

No. Its not a no brainer. No body asked for Pep Guardiola.

Adit do you have any evidence that Real Madrid did't ask him?

Adit wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:

Adit wrote:
No. Its not a no brainer. No body asked for Pep Guardiola.

It is a no brainer. I'm sure they asked him.

Your sure based on what? You are really detached from reality if you think pep coaching Madrid in 2016 is a possibility.

it's already been reported by graham hunter that we did, but i am sure you will say it's BS...

But i agree with Hans, if there is even the slimmest chance that we can sign him, it would be absolutely stupid not to throw ourselves at him.

Mr Nick09 wrote:

Adit wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:

It is a no brainer. I'm sure they asked him.

Your sure based on what? You are really detached from reality if you think pep coaching Madrid in 2016 is a possibility.

it's already been reported by graham hunter that we did, but i am sure you will say it's BS...

But i agree with Hans, if there is even the slimmest chance that we can sign him, it would be absolutely stupid not to throw ourselves at him.

Exactly. All I'm saying is that I'm pretty sure you sounded out that chance and maybe tried to push it a bit.

Anyway, you got the next best thing.

Beautiful Football wrote:

Adit wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:Perez and the Real bosses would be absolutely mad if they didn't at least ASK Pep and make him an offer.

It's a no brainer really, and I'm sure they tried, whether Catalan, Moorish, or Anarcho-Mallorcan.

No. Its not a no brainer. No body asked for Pep Guardiola.

Adit do you have any evidence that Real Madrid did't ask him?

you have any evidence other than pep fanboy saying?

If I say SAf was offered to coach us do you have any evidence to against?

It is easy making ridiculous statements with out backing it up with credible source.

Adit, fact is you don't know shit.

Hapless_Hans wrote:Adit, fact is you don't know shit.

fact is you know nothing Jon snow. Go sleep.

InterMalia wrote:

Dante wrote:

The Demon of Carthage wrote:I don't know why some Barça fans think Zidane has fanboys here. Sports defends him because he's French and he's always had a soft spot for his countrymen.

But from my point of view and several other Madrid fans, Zidane has no excuse not to succeed. He has a great squad and Carlo's blueprints. If he doesn't win anything come June, he can show himself the door.

Nobody is making excuses for him and certainly don't want him to stick around if he fails to do at least as good as Carlo.

I agree , Zidane has no excuse really . He should be sacked if he doesn't do at least as good as Ancelotti imo . I mean , even Ancelotti himself didn't do at least as good as Ancelotti and was righteously sacked after all , why should Zidane be excused ? It all makes sense imo .

Totally , and like you said , Zidane has his blueprints too , he knows the title-winning Ancelotti ways . Zidane can simply copy pasta Ancelotti 2014 and raise his eyebrow , play the same way and just win stuff . Of course fans can only demand Zidane to be as good as Ancelotti , those few people saying he's inexperienced and have 0 expectations from him(wtf?) and all that are clueless , if he doesn't win anything with this super balanced galacticos V.3 team , it will simply be Zidane's fault for not doing an accurate copy-paste of Ancelotti's blueprints. I mean , who's to blame other than himself if he doesn't do as good as Carlo did ?

Of course , Carlo was doing at least as good as Carlo , following the Ancelotti blueprints , but he didn't win anything in his 2nd season , so the sack was the only reasonable thing to do obviously . In fact , i think even if Zidane manages to successfully copy paste the Carlo blueprints , i think if he somehow can only manage to win just the Cup.. i think he should be sacked , just in case.  Definitely , that is what sane Madrid fans should expect and much more importantly demand from Zidane , and dare i say it ? Every other coach that comes after , forever. And how it could be otherwise. Perez really knows where it's at and finally fans have begun to understand really.

Besides , Guardiola did it . Why Zidane couldn't ? Is there any difference whatsoever , no , so Zidane is expected to win or gtfo , logically speaking always . I hear Zidane also has deep admiration for Guardiola and his sporting policies , combine that with the fact that he also has the Ancelotti blueprints and what could possibly come to his defence , if he doesn't win anything?? Benitez had his fair chance , got 4 entire months and a preseason . He failed. Zidane will also have his fair chance , another 4 months and he won't even have to do a preseason , already half the work done for him lel

I love sarcastic qoutes, and this one right here is gold...but..Coming from a fan of the most successful club in the world you ought to respect the Madrid fans high expectations/arrogance more. If AC Milan's fans were this arrogant I bet you wouldn't be a mid table team right now. Milan fans ought to feel as the best sh*t ever with their teams international trophy count and expect nothing less than a trophy ever damn season, but because of your mentality nobody respects you and the most successful club in the world relinquishes in mid table in freaking Serie zzzzz because that mentality...Loser mentality really.

Heh ? Whatever

Having presumptuous delusions of grandeur isn't the same as winning mentality . Nor any fan of the most successful club in the world ever had any issue called loser mentality , as it's simply a fatal contradiction by itself , in case you missed it (:  

I will let you know however , just because i've also seen what it means and what is required to have such expectations , i can tell you with absolute confidence , i know when the time is right to be pragmatic and realistic with expectations , exactly because i know what it takes in order to legitimately have the highest demands , and when it's right to do so and ask for heads when they aren't met . Greatness isn't anyone's divine right . I'll just leave it at that , as to how a fan should handle his expectations or mentality , no matter how big the club. It's silly to harbor and hold the same barometer so high when certain mandatory requirements aren't met . There's winning mentality and there's being presumptuous , clueless and delusional

In short , we've more than sported a winning mentality when we could actually back that up on the field , with the right people at the bench and on the pitch . Hell , even after Ancelotti's Milan , we still maintained crazy expectations and demands and those were felt deeply till 2012. But Milan's case has little to nothing to do with the fans . You couldn't possibly ask for more from the Milan fan base , from any angle .

Finally , these extremely high expectations and what you think of as 'winning mentality' , only come when the right set of people is there. Currently that's quite likely not the case for Real , let alone Milan lol . In Real's defence however , they do have a fantastic team still . It's only their choice in a young coach which significantly complicates things right now and they should actually be more pragmatic and realistic with their demands from him , well some of them not all obviously. You can go ahead and baptise that as winning mentality , imaginery beliefs won't change the reality however . Certainly it doesn't work the other way around as well .

There's quite a line between winning mentality , to absurd and unfair expectations (with regards to Zidane that is , i wouldn't even be here if it wasn't a rookie coach in question). In fact , the only reason i bothered was because of Zidane , i want to see him do well with Real . But i know that's exactly that kind of thing that won't let him succeed in the end. It's Real who gave him the job so soon in his career , you can't have these unreasonable high demands as you would with Ancelotti , elsewise why even give him the job . I am not saying they should expect 0 silverware , but sacking him because he won't be another Ancelotti is just funny to me .

Adit wrote:

Beautiful Football wrote:

Adit wrote:

No. Its not a no brainer. No body asked for Pep Guardiola.

Adit do you have any evidence that Real Madrid did't ask him?

you have any evidence other than pep fanboy saying?

If I say SAf was offered to coach us do you have any evidence to against?

It is easy making ridiculous statements with out backing it up with credible source.

Don't be ridiculous.SAF is retired and has no logical reason to coach Madrid atm. Where Pep is most wanted coach in the world for any club even for real madrid. Doesn't matter what you think about graham hunter, he still is more creditable source than you, giving no evidence whats so ever.

Mr Nick09 wrote:i told you yesterday was your day off, now you continue with this

Barca follow a club wide policy and philosophy, from first team to academy, they dont play at the whims of the first team manager. You are comparing able and oranges.

Your argument yesterday was "Benitez dictates what kind of formation Zidane is using" which was terribly untrue when last season under carlo zidane started with a 4231 when the first team was playing 442/433. Same this season he went directly for a 433 when Benitez started with a 4231.

Frankly, i cant believe you are trying to convince us with this stuff. No one is buying it. Zidane had his castilla team play like meh most of the times, they have no clue how to team, that was him, not some schemes Benitez or Ancelotti were forcing him to do against his wishes.

Yes, all clubs say the fancy things like we want the same philosophy everywhere,  blablabla, we want attacking football, but end of the day Zidane was INDEPENDENT. Not sure why are trying to convince us otherwise. It's the past anyway, we will see what he does now.

And as for him visiting Bielsa and Pep etc..., it really doesnt mean anything until he has success and implements something like they did. If he gets there, we will say he learnt from them, but im pretty sure that a lot of people study them and still cant do as well as them. You are in full fanboy mode here sports lol

No.  I said that most elite clubs follow one of two paths... either they have a club-wide philosophy and they hire coaches who can significantly adhere to those core beliefs OR they bring managers that can impose their own style, however different it is, and that style is used downstream by the B team since that's supposed to feed the senior club.

Not all do this... but the modern club, including Madrid, follow this model.

Everything you said about what Zidane has used at Castilla is patently false Nick... all of it.  Reason Odegaard failed so badly last season is because Madrid ran a 433 and he was asked to play CM.  He didn't want to and couldn't tbh since he's really a AM and has no idea how to play CM.  That screwed the team up....  but he stayed with the 433 regardless.  It would have been easy, even logical, to go to a 4231 at that point.

This year, it's a 4231 but the best attackers from last season, namely Burgui qnd Medran, are gone.  Heck, even Benavente is gone.  There are only 3 main guys that were left:  Odegaard, Llorente and Mayoral.  That's it.  But Castilla isn't really about winning... it's about preparing players to be pros and play for Madrid.  So the manager there does what he can.

I remember specifically that Mourinho strongly criticized Castilla for playing different tactics than the senior squad and not taking directions from him...  and he was right.  Here are some of the articles at the time:

http://www.marca.com/2012/10/31/futbol/equipos/real_madrid/1351647138.html
http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2012/10/30/actualidad/1351610807_003774.html