Ignazio Abate: Progress Report

Feel free to stay on topic and "prove" your statement about Abate not being a quality player, or stay out of the thread.

sciacca wrote:
Now the problem with Abate is, he is simply not the best. We can not judge a player with one good season and claim he is currently Italy's best RB or some what like to say here in the world. Now of course he does deserve a call up, and there's no doubt about it, but its not a big deal if he isn't as we already have good ones and we don't have any problems with our current full backs. Though, to claim to the best you need to also be part of the national team, in which the best are called up. Sure Lippi didn't do that, but this is Prandelli and he has been doing that, and if he hasn't called up Abate, then he has his own views and ways of what he wants.

One of them being ball possession in which fullbacks need to be capable of doing in which is pushing forward. You already got Maggio who can be both the right back and right winger, then you got the likes of Santon who can do just as that and Cassetti who is great as well. Now Abate, sure he has speed, but no ball control, no dribbling and has not crossing skills. We talk about a player who has only 1 assist this whole season. Yet you got Oddo who played 5 apps, and managed 2... Stats don't lie, if he ain't good at it, then what's the point.

As most of you claim, he is growing as a player... so if he is growing and he is still improving how can he be proclaimed the best? Just curious.

So having one good season doesn't justify a call-up (or in this case, does justify an isolation from the national team)? In essence, what you are saying is form should not be taken into account when looking at national team selection. No matter how you word it, that is your argument. Now, I could come up with 1000 cases of where a player has been selected only on form but that is not necessary, everyone who reads this would be able to make a list just as or even more comprehensive than what I would have made.

Your pro-Prandelli bias is so obvious that it diminishes the reputability of your entire post. Just the same as Prandelli has a pro-Juve bias, you have a pro-Prandelli bias. According to your argument, you can only be among the best if you are in the national team of your nationality. Where, then, does this leave Kaka'? He is surely the best AM that Brazil have? I will assume your response to this will be injuries and Menezes' selection policy. Would that not mean that you are taking form and selection policy into account just like you have said shouldn't be taken into account when rating a player and his suitability in any given national team? When you are trying to make a point, at least keep it consistent and clear of contradictions.

And once again you come up with that misleading stat. I am surprised you didn't include the phrase that normally accompanies the one assist argument (something like it wasn't intended either?). Seriously, if you cannot come up with anything more to your argument, stop regurgitating the same stat that has already been criticized many times over.

Well Kaka asked not to be called up so that he could have the normal pre-season that he needs to get back to his best, however the point is entirely relevant with another example instead.

Also this needs to be posted in light of Sciacca's claim about Cassetti: https://goallegacy.forumotion.com/t2107-must-i-understand-why-cassetti

A bit over a month ago.

dostoevsky wrote:Well Kaka asked not to be called up so that he could have the normal pre-season that he needs to get back to his best, however the point is entirely relevant with another example instead.

Also this needs to be posted in light of Sciacca's claim about Cassetti: https://goallegacy.forumotion.com/t2107-must-i-understand-why-cassetti

A bit over a month ago.

In his defense, I think he meant Cassani. If he did mean Cassetti : sciaccatrollfail :

would be great if Abate scored against Inter in China

Rossonero23 wrote:LOL...

Santon? Are we talking about the same Santon who wasn't good enough for Inter, and was loaned to Cesena for playing time?? The same Santon who's spot was taken by Nagatomo? The same player who only has one assist in his entire career? And that assist was back in the 2008-2009 season.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/121811/davide-santon?cc=5901


No wonder the Italian National team is so bad these days. You have mediocre trash like Santon and Cassani starting ahead of a legend like Abate!

Brigate Rossonere wrote:So having one good season doesn't justify a call-up (or in this case, does justify an isolation from the national team)? In essence, what you are saying is form should not be taken into account when looking at national team selection. No matter how you word it, that is your argument. Now, I could come up with 1000 cases of where a player has been selected only on form but that is not necessary, everyone who reads this would be able to make a list just as or even more comprehensive than what I would have made.

Your pro-Prandelli bias is so obvious that it diminishes the reputability of your entire post. Just the same as Prandelli has a pro-Juve bias, you have a pro-Prandelli bias. According to your argument, you can only be among the best if you are in the national team of your nationality. Where, then, does this leave Kaka'? He is surely the best AM that Brazil have? I will assume your response to this will be injuries and Menezes' selection policy. Would that not mean that you are taking form and selection policy into account just like you have said shouldn't be taken into account when rating a player and his suitability in any given national team? When you are trying to make a point, at least keep it consistent and clear of contradictions.

And once again you come up with that misleading stat. I am surprised you didn't include the phrase that normally accompanies the one assist argument (something like it wasn't intended either?). Seriously, if you cannot come up with anything more to your argument, stop regurgitating the same stat that has already been criticized many times over.

Alright, I previously said that was going to be my first and last post, however there has been some misunderstanding that should be clarified.

Santon is still young, only 20 years old in which he has lots of time to grow, Santon is the player at his age who stopped the likes of Cassano, Ronaldo, Krasic and etc... Four years younger than Abate, and has already achieved more than what Abate has. So when comparing both players as in their careers, Santon is the better player, as in currently that Abate. The only reason why Santon has been struggling was because of a long term injury, with Gasperini now, he has managed to play enough and he's looking very good. Santon has managed 7 caps with the national team, in which Abate still fails to achieve one. As a fan perspective, you can say what you want, but it's their job to see who gets called up. Sadly, Abate hasn't yet, as it is his only good year. Three years ago, Abate was somewhat of a nobody. You look at Santon, and at his age he proclaimed to be the next Maldini.

As for Brigate... Did you read what I said by any chance? I never claimed such a thing, In fact I said Abate deserves a call up... The main thing is, He dosen't need to be.. We got alright good enough fullbacks to begin with.

My Pro Prandelli Bias? Sure, whatever you say, and your posts to be seem to be biased as you seem to proclaim Abate is some sort of hero and amazing player. That's Milanista bias if you ask me... in which mostly only in this section do they care much about Abate and not elsewhere. Not only that, most of you think he hates Milan, which is again Bias. I wonder why Pirlo and Cassano were called up then... Things that have been said, that are completely false and are just pointless assumptions in which are not proven. Bad example, how is Kaka doing right now with Madrid? Oh right, not so good... Contradictions? Oh my...

I'm sorry Brigate, but what do you bring up? You still haven't pointed it out any valid arguments in why Abate is so good. All you do is bring up random examples, not even backing up what your trying to say against my opinion, I on the hand do so, but in this case, just questioning your logic towards my post as it was mislead.

Last post now.

sciacca wrote:

Rossonero23 wrote:LOL...

Santon? Are we talking about the same Santon who wasn't good enough for Inter, and was loaned to Cesena for playing time?? The same Santon who's spot was taken by Nagatomo? The same player who only has one assist in his entire career? And that assist was back in the 2008-2009 season.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/121811/davide-santon?cc=5901


No wonder the Italian National team is so bad these days. You have mediocre trash like Santon and Cassani starting ahead of a legend like Abate!

Brigate Rossonere wrote:So having one good season doesn't justify a call-up (or in this case, does justify an isolation from the national team)? In essence, what you are saying is form should not be taken into account when looking at national team selection. No matter how you word it, that is your argument. Now, I could come up with 1000 cases of where a player has been selected only on form but that is not necessary, everyone who reads this would be able to make a list just as or even more comprehensive than what I would have made.

Your pro-Prandelli bias is so obvious that it diminishes the reputability of your entire post. Just the same as Prandelli has a pro-Juve bias, you have a pro-Prandelli bias. According to your argument, you can only be among the best if you are in the national team of your nationality. Where, then, does this leave Kaka'? He is surely the best AM that Brazil have? I will assume your response to this will be injuries and Menezes' selection policy. Would that not mean that you are taking form and selection policy into account just like you have said shouldn't be taken into account when rating a player and his suitability in any given national team? When you are trying to make a point, at least keep it consistent and clear of contradictions.

And once again you come up with that misleading stat. I am surprised you didn't include the phrase that normally accompanies the one assist argument (something like it wasn't intended either?). Seriously, if you cannot come up with anything more to your argument, stop regurgitating the same stat that has already been criticized many times over.

Alright, I previously said that was going to be my first and last post, however there has been some misunderstanding that should be clarified.

Santon is still young, only 20 years old in which he has lots of time to grow, Santon is the player at his age who stopped the likes of Cassano, Ronaldo, Krasic and etc... Four years younger than Abate, and has already achieved more than what Abate has. So when comparing both players as in their careers, Santon is the better player, as in currently that Abate. The only reason why Santon has been struggling was because of a long term injury, with Gasperini now, he has managed to play enough and he's looking very good. Santon has managed 7 caps with the national team, in which Abate still fails to achieve one. As a fan perspective, you can say what you want, but it's their job to see who gets called up. Sadly, Abate hasn't yet, as it is his only good year. Three years ago, Abate was somewhat of a nobody. You look at Santon, and at his age he proclaimed to be the next Maldini.

I don't get it. Just because Santon was better when he was 19 means he is currently a better overall player than Abate? Abate is a late bloomer so that makes him worse than Santon? Anderson was a young prodigy at 19 while Xavi was a late bloomer, does that make Anderson better than Xavi? And please stop with the excuses. Santon had one wonder season and after that he failed in Mourinho's second season and also under Benitez and Leonardo when he was fully fit. He even failed to nail himself as an absolute starter at freakin Cesena for crying out loud. Abate was starting and giving noteworthy performances week in, week out for the champions of Italy while Santon was struggling to get starters for a relegation battling bottom half team. And another awesome logic, Santon has more caps than Abate so he is automatically better. So that also makes Molinaro, Oddo and Antonini better than Abate?And I guess that also makes Ramires better than Hernanes?

Three years ago, Pedro was somewhat of a nobody, while it was proclaimed that Bojan would be even better than Messi. So does that mean Bojan (who was reserve for Barcelona) better than Pedro (who was scoring goals against Real Madrid and in the Champions League Final and a starter for a World Cup winning team) :?:

sciacca wrote:My Pro Prandelli Bias? Sure, whatever you say, and your posts to be seem to be biased as you seem to proclaim Abate is some sort of hero and amazing player. That's Milanista bias if you ask me... in which mostly only in this section do they care much about Abate and not elsewhere. Not only that, most of you think he hates Milan, which is again Bias. I wonder why Pirlo and Cassano were called up then... Things that have been said, that are completely false and are just pointless assumptions in which are not proven. Bad example, how is Kaka doing right now with Madrid? Oh right, not so good... Contradictions? Oh my...

I'm sorry Brigate, but what do you bring up? You still haven't pointed it out any valid arguments in why Abate is so good. All you do is bring up random examples, not even backing up what your trying to say against my opinion, I on the hand do so, but in this case, just questioning your logic towards my post as it was mislead.

Last post now.

I have a Milan bias? No f.cking way. Having a bias for a third party is not the same as having a bias to the club you love. Have I ever said Abate is a hero? No. Have I said he is an amazing player? Again, no. What have I said, then? I said that he would be a more defensively solid full back than the current full backs for the national team (Maggio, Cassani).

You wonder why he called up Pirlo? I didn't realize the transfer to Juventus had fallen through... And as for Cassano, do you think he shouldn't have been called up? Prandelli only calls up those he needs to to not lose his job. If he left out either Pirlo or Cassano he would be crucified. How many call ups did Matri get before moving to Juve?

How is Kaka' doing right now? Well he has seemed a little sluggish in pre-season (nothing less than should be expected) but has also showed some signs of re-emergence to the inspiring form he achieved at Milan and I think Ozil shouldn't get too comfortable in the starting XI because this will be (injuries allowing) Kaka's point proving season at Madrid. Besides the points anyway....

Abate is more defensively solid than both Maggio and Cassani and should be integrated into the first team asap because by Euro12 and WC14 he will be in his prime age while Maggio will be approaching his mid 30's and Abate will reach a level that Cassani will only dream of reaching by these years.

Brigate Rossonere wrote:

dostoevsky wrote:Well Kaka asked not to be called up so that he could have the normal pre-season that he needs to get back to his best, however the point is entirely relevant with another example instead.

Also this needs to be posted in light of Sciacca's claim about Cassetti: https://goallegacy.forumotion.com/t2107-must-i-understand-why-cassetti

A bit over a month ago.

In his defense, I think he meant Cassani. If he did mean Cassetti : sciaccatrollfail :

Not surprised he made the mistake, he is a forgettable and insignificant player

Spoiler:

Sciacca is now turning his attention away from Cassani and Maggio to Santon? Apparently one performance against Ronaldo is more significant than his complete lack of consistency. Motta was reminiscent of Cafu against Arsenal, years ago, why don't you call him up on the basis of his hype? Santon is welcome back in the national team when he actually performs consistently and proves himself against everybody

"All you do is bring up random examples, not even backing up what your trying to say against my opinion, I on the hand do so, but in this case, just questioning your logic towards my post as it was mislead."

Then how about you send someone back with a post relating to each point I made if it's so obvious? You can send someone to post in your name, there's no need to post for yourself, it doesn't take much to simply forward it on via a PM. That's not a just a suggestion btw, if no Juventus poster is willing to do so then you may send it to myself or anyone in the forum.

When I listed the arguments previously stated I posted a rebuttal next to each, however all that has occurred thus far is that the exact same statements have been repeated, with no reference whatsoever to why the rebuttal is flawed in someone's perspective or any other significant point which needs to be made. If I needed someone to repeat that Abate had one assist last season, before then mentioning Santon who has one assist in 50 Serie A matches - thanks Rossonero23 for pointing this out - then I could easily have trained a parrot to do this job.

Also I'm still waiting for JNC to go into his extensive detail about Abate.

I'm about to go to sleep. The Juventus section honestly used to be a wonderful place to read and debate in a logical, respectful manner. Show me you're still great.

Also the input of others is welcomed, it's ridiculous that this is split along forum lines.

dostoevsky wrote:I'm about to go to sleep. The Juventus section honestly used to be a wonderful place to read and debate in a logical, respectful manner. Show me you're still great.

Also the input of others is welcomed, it's ridiculous that this is split along forum lines.

You are going to bed? The irony

Another manager going to lose everything for Italy.

Prandelli's selection vs. Spain

Goalkeepers - Buffon (Juventus), De Sanctis (Naples) Sirigu (Paris St Germain);
Defenders - Balzaretti (Palermo), Bonucci (Juventus) Cassani (Palermo), Chiellini (Juventus), Crespo (Zenit St. Petersburg), Maggio (Napoli), Ogbonna (Torino), Frog (Inter);
Midfielders - Aquilani (Liverpool), De Rossi (Roma), Marchisio (Juventus), Montolivo (Fiorentina), Thiago Motta (Inter), Nocerino (Palermo), Palombo (Sampdoria), Pirlo (Juventus);
Forwards - Balotelli (Manchester City), Cassano (Milan), Giovinco (Parma), Pazzini (Inter), Rossi (Villarreal).


Without Abate they are nothing