2016 Winter Transfer Rumours Mk. I

Think Giroud, Auba (and to some extent Theo) are different players and not comparable wrt who is better or worse.

Auba and Theo are practically clones ( well pre injury Theo anyway)

Except Auba is more refined and better

Clones of what

Is he quite obviously better though? It's really hard to compare from the Bundesliga to the EPL where the style is quite different. How many players have come from there to England and looked much worse (look at Firmino as one example, and Firmino was better than Auba in the BuLi, although I still think Firmino will come good and he hasn't been as bad as people make him out to be...quite good in some games even).

I just don't see why they would try to upgrade there first when they have 3 players that are doing an adequate job when they have Mertesacker on their line and no real cover at DM that represents a competition or upgrade to Coquelin. They could probably even use another legitimate winger before a striker, IMO.

Curtinho wrote:(look at Firmino as one example, and Firmino was better than Auba in the BuLi).

Sorry Curt, but this is a comment you'd better retract. It's ridiculous

Firmino was a fine player in BuLi for about 2 and a half seasons. Had about one very good season.

At no point he was as good as Aubameyang this season.

Firmino will never be a world beater, or what is called here 'elite' player etc.
He's a good player who can do better than he's doing right now, but Aubameyang has moved into a different sphere.

Aubameyang and Walcott have similar skill-sets but Walcott has never scored 18 goals before January before and probably never will. Aubameyang's an upgrade on him purely for being a better goalscorer.

We play better with a pacey forward up front. Giroud has done very well but I thought we looked our best this season when Walcott played down the middle. No surprise we look a far more dangerous team when Cazorla, Alexis and Ozil are playing behind a forward that can stretch defensive lines.

Also we could quite easily play Ozil, Alexis, Walcott and Aubameyang together. Would be GOAT on FIFA.

We can agree to disagree. I don't think one hot streak while Firmino was consistently the better player over 3 years pretty much indicates that he's moved into a 'different tier'. Though again, hard to compare a player leading his team with virtually no support as a mid-table side (thus maybe being afforded more space and less respect) versus a player playing for one of the top teams in the league with a ton of offensive support but maybe against a bit tougher defenders.

Realistically speaking Aubameyang finishes with between 25 and 30 goals and maybe 8 assists? That's playing for Dortmund who will likely finish with close to 100 goals (in large part to Auba). Is that really more impressive than an attacking midfielder (who offers more off the ball in terms of winning possession, pressing, build-up, etc.) that has 16 goals and 11 assists playing for a team that scored 70 goals? It's a 'what have you done for me lately' mentality IMO, to put Aubameyang's current season over Firmino's 13/14.

So no, I won't retract the comment. I can see differing views sure, but even still that's besides the point. I just don't think it's clear that Aubameyang is much better than Giroud and Walcott/Welbeck...and especially not for the amount of money Arsenal would have to spend to get him considering weaknesses they have in other areas. Would he be a marginal upgrade? Probably, maybe even a good upgrade on the latter two but it's really hard to say and they have bigger issues to cover before looking at another striker (especially since IMO Giroud is in quite good form anyway).

Curtinho wrote:We can agree to disagree. I don't think one hot streak while Firmino was consistently the better player over 3 years pretty much indicates that he's moved into a 'different tier'. Though again, hard to compare a player leading his team with virtually no support as a mid-table side (thus maybe being afforded more space and less respect) versus a player playing for one of the top teams in the league with a ton of offensive support but maybe against a bit tougher defenders.

Realistically speaking Aubameyang finishes with between 25 and 30 goals and maybe 8 assists? That's playing for Dortmund who will likely finish with close to 100 goals (in large part to Auba). Is that really more impressive than an attacking midfielder (who offers more off the ball in terms of winning possession, pressing, build-up, etc.) that has 16 goals and 11 assists playing for a team that scored 70 goals? It's a 'what have you done for me lately' mentality IMO, to put Aubameyang's current season over Firmino's 13/14.

So no, I won't retract the comment. I can see differing views sure, but even still that's besides the point. I just don't think it's clear that Aubameyang is much better than Giroud and Walcott/Welbeck...and especially not for the amount of money Arsenal would have to spend to get him considering weaknesses they have in other areas. Would he be a marginal upgrade? Probably, maybe even a good upgrade on the latter two but it's really hard to say and they have bigger issues to cover before looking at another striker (especially since IMO Giroud is in quite good form anyway).

It depends on on what you want. Auba is an uprgrade on Walcott and is better at everything. He is faster, has better movement, better finisher, much better team player etc

I think Auba would fit Ozil quite well with his runs, but Giroud's hold up play is very good and is useful with the right supporting cast. I would stick with Giroud. BVB play in a very specific set up that enables AUbas strengths and hides his weaknesses.

In a way, it doesn't matter, as Auba isn't on the market

Dortmund selling their top striker midseason

I really struggle with Curtinho's views sometimes. He seems to be such a strong believer in his own views that it is better not to get into a debate - only because the debates would never have an end, partly because Curtinho will refuse to budge.

Also, while I admire how much he appreciates/defends players associated with the club he loves, sometimes, he reaaaaalllly begins to stretch things.

Hapless_Hans wrote:In a way, it doesn't matter, as Auba isn't on the market

Dortmund selling their top striker midseason

You are a cruel man. And a spoilsport.

Can't believe my hype train actually got so many people involved in the Auba -> Arsenal story though

Never change, GL. Never, ever, ever change.

srigooner wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:In a way, it doesn't matter, as Auba isn't on the market

Dortmund selling their top striker midseason

You are a cruel man. And a spoilsport.

Don't see how stating that obvious fact would be cruel to a BVB fan like yourself. Should be soothing rather.

srigooner wrote:I really struggle with Curtinho's views sometimes. He seems to be such a strong believer in his own views that it is better not to get into a debate - only because the debates would never have an end, partly because Curtinho will refuse to budge.

Also, while I admire how much he appreciates/defends players associated with the club he loves, sometimes, he reaaaaalllly begins to stretch things.

Yeah.
But it's all opinions anyway, and I like that better than fans who shit on their own team's players all the time and want to buy everyone who hasn't climbed a tree after 3 seconds

Shitting on your own players when they are actually bad is ok imo

Hapless_Hans wrote:

srigooner wrote:I really struggle with Curtinho's views sometimes. He seems to be such a strong believer in his own views that it is better not to get into a debate - only because the debates would never have an end, partly because Curtinho will refuse to budge.

Also, while I admire how much he appreciates/defends players associated with the club he loves, sometimes, he reaaaaalllly begins to stretch things.

Yeah.
But it's all opinions anyway, and I like that better than fans who shit on their own team's players all the time and want to buy everyone who hasn't climbed a tree after 3 seconds

Don't hate on Raptor ffs

Hapless_Hans wrote:

srigooner wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:In a way, it doesn't matter, as Auba isn't on the market

Dortmund selling their top striker midseason

You are a cruel man. And a spoilsport.

Don't see how stating that obvious fact would be cruel to a BVB fan like yourself. Should be soothing rather.

You're not helping my propaganda machinery.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Shitting on your own players when they are actually bad is ok imo

Amen

ES wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Shitting on your own players when they are actually bad is ok imo

Amen

I'll endorse this.

I know its put to an end that Aubameyang isn't even on the market. But still it makes for a good discussion.

First thing, is he really faster than Walcott? I know he is pacey but I never knew he was faster than Theo.

The thing about Theo is that as much as he has proved himself in the CF position, or rather as much as we have looked good when he has played there, Theo will never really be a CF. He never was and never will be. And I liked that he has come out recently and said that he would play anywhere for Arsenal and give the best for the team. For how long that attitude will last, I don't know. But Theo is not the way forward for Arsenal as far as the striker's position goes. He can be used in bit parts and some times there, but that's where it ends.

Now on Auba, I know he isn't also an out and out CF/striker. But one thing I know he has over Theo is that he is honestly a better finisher. Maybe even by some way as well. Walcott started off as a young pacey promising winger at Arsenal with poor decision making and bad end product. But the thing is over these years he hasn't typically vastly improved in those facets of the game so much so as to say he is very good or great on those fronts. His efficiency is actually not that bad, but in terms of a quality striker's finishing I think he is bang on average. So many times I've seen I'm mis-hit a shot when he is in a good position. Hell even some of his goals isn't pure striking of the ball. He still has a knack of making bad decisions when he is on the ball or when the ball is coming toward him. He either overruns, or takes a shot to quickly when he could have taken a touch first and he is prone to having very tame efforts on goal.

Having said that he has done well, and hell with strikes like that against City, it is evident that he can put the ball in the back of the net with some instinct, finesse and power. But the thing is he still makes a lot of silly mistakes imo. And that's all because he really is not a natural.

He's been our best finisher for a couple of years now, after RvP. That says a lot.

Pre injury Walcott i don't think he's faster, think he is now though.

It may just be me but that ACL injury has affected his quickness a little bit, not massive amounts but it's noticeable.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Pre injury Walcott i don't think he's faster, think he is now though.

It may just be me but that ACL injury has affected his quickness a little bit, not massive amounts but it's noticeable.

Yes he is faster than Walcott has ever been. Auba is the fastest player I have ever seen. Walcott might have looked quicker because he is smaller but Auba is faster from what I've seen. Pre or post ACL injury

I think there's a difference between 'shitting on your own players when they're bad' and looking for a reason to shit on your own players because you have an agenda against them/didn't want them/etc. Everyone has their biases but it gets extreme when some players can't put a foot wrong no matter what and others can't do anything right no matter what. I definitely lean more toward supporting any player that plays for my team as long as they play for my team (yes, I'd even like Mignolet to succeed if he can find it in him to do so).

srigooner wrote:I really struggle with Curtinho's views sometimes. He seems to be such a strong believer in his own views that it is better not to get into a debate - only because the debates would never have an end, partly because Curtinho will refuse to budge.

Also, while I admire how much he appreciates/defends players associated with the club he loves, sometimes, he reaaaaalllly begins to stretch things.

I can definitely see where you are coming from with this. I tend to be a bit stubborn and bullish on my opinion and points that I am defending, especially when it comes to Liverpool or the Dutch. It's not intentional and when a rational discussion can be had without name calling or personal attacks I like to think if a reasonable argument is made that I will listen to it and take it into account. I just find very often these things break down pretty quickly on the forums as soon as you disagree with someone.

I have changed my mind in some cases though, and I will admit when I am wrong (as I already have in the past). I hope you didn't take my posts above to say that Aubameyang isn't having a great year or that he wouldn't be a great player for Arsenal, because he probably would and he definitely is playing great. I just meant realistically it seems like Arsenal need more help in other areas rather than blowing 60m on another striker.

They don't have many weaknesses IMO outside of a top class striker, maybe a DM but that's about it.

Curtinho wrote:

srigooner wrote:I really struggle with Curtinho's views sometimes. He seems to be such a strong believer in his own views that it is better not to get into a debate - only because the debates would never have an end, partly because Curtinho will refuse to budge.

Also, while I admire how much he appreciates/defends players associated with the club he loves, sometimes, he reaaaaalllly begins to stretch things.

I can definitely see where you are coming from with this. I tend to be a bit stubborn and bullish on my opinion and points that I am defending, especially when it comes to Liverpool or the Dutch. It's not intentional and when a rational discussion can be had without name calling or personal attacks I like to think if a reasonable argument is made that I will listen to it and take it into account. I just find very often these things break down pretty quickly on the forums as soon as you disagree with someone.

I have changed my mind in some cases though, and I will admit when I am wrong (as I already have in the past). I hope you didn't take my posts above to say that Aubameyang isn't having a great year or that he wouldn't be a great player for Arsenal, because he probably would and he definitely is playing great. I just meant realistically it seems like Arsenal need more help in other areas rather than blowing 60m on another striker.

Nah, was just a general observation over a few months. Especially after I also became regular-ish in the Liverpool section.