Low buy-out clauses for young players?

by halamadrid2 Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:59 pm

why do Barca have such low buy out clauses on their promising kids?

by Winter is Coming Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:09 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:why do Barca have such low buy out clauses on their promising kids?

Low buy-out clauses for young players? Bartomeu-e1435850146652

Low buy-out clauses for young players? Zubizarreta-e1417566500645

Low buy-out clauses for young players? Zubizarreta1

by Donuts Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:11 pm

15m for a player whose only excelled in a second division isn't exactly low, kind of a risk especially if the kid is leaving the team expecting to start somewhere else, otherwise there is no reason to leave.

big clauses are only put on players like messi who started in first division at age 17 or teenagers like halilovic who are bought from other teams.

by futbol Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:15 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:why do Barca have such low buy out clauses on their promising kids?

Because the guys running the club are clueless. They think € 25M for Thiago is great business, openly communicated as much through a spokesperson, while at the same time chasing the inferior Pogba for € 100M.

by The Franchise Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:22 am

Donuts wrote:15m for a player whose only excelled in a second division isn't exactly low, kind of a risk especially if the kid is leaving the team expecting to start somewhere else, otherwise there is no reason to leave.

big clauses are only put on players like messi who started in first division at age 17 or teenagers like halilovic who are bought from other teams.

Or Pedro who was 150m not long ago

Or Song who was 100 something.

Pls mate

by Donuts Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:45 am

The Franchise wrote:
Donuts wrote:15m for a player whose only excelled in a second division isn't exactly low, kind of a risk especially if the kid is leaving the team expecting to start somewhere else, otherwise there is no reason to leave.

big clauses are only put on players like messi who started in first division at age 17 or teenagers like halilovic who are bought from other teams.

Or Pedro who was 150m not long ago

Or Song who was 100 something.

Pls mate

pedro at 19 didn't have a big release clause either till his new contract in the 2009/10 season (age 22) which was increased to 60 or something million

song was bought from somewhere else, so he is irrelevant almost any purchase we make with the age of 22 or over has a stupid release clause.

i'm talking about young players going up the rank rarely get big release clauses unless they are already in the first team or the special cases like messi etc.
the kids have no reason to agree on getting some ridiculous release clause, not all of them are puyols they just wanna start their careers with almost any team (as you can see some even go to spurs lolol) and a low release clause forces the parent team to make their decisions whether or not they choose to continue trusting the player.

thiago had a big release clause till we gave him little games, same with bartra who got a new release clause once he broke into the first team.. only to have the same clause as thiago because of lack of minutes

adama has barely played for the first team, he can't appear ahead of iniesta on the wing nor surpass a meh pedro.. him leaving for 15m is a good profit for us considering we don't see him getting too many minutes any time soon with munir or sandro ahead of him.. and still pedro.

by The Franchise Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:56 pm

Donuts, I dont want to make this thread about Barca. But when you said "big clauses are only put on players like messi who started in first division at age 17 or teenagers like halilovic who are bought from other teams".

Thats simply not true and ill leave it at that.

Concering Adama, I dont think 15m release clause is good and I agree with Hala's first statement. 15M is a fair enough price, a little high but well worth the gamble if your another club. If you want to keep a player, then it has to be more than that.

by rwo power Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:17 pm

I think this merits a thread of its own. I used a general title, not Barca specific as I think one could discuss this generally, too, as some players have astonishingly low clauses, while other haven't and one might look into the respective clubs' policies.

by S Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:31 pm

u love it all spic and span dont u ^^ :coffee:

by Art Morte Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:44 pm

Buy-out clauses are a curious thing, because, in principle, clubs don't need them for anything. Without a release clause, clubs can refuse every offer for their players. If there is a buy-out clause, that makes the club powerless if the clause is met.

If Messi's release clause is €250m it doesn't give any added power to the club, like some seem to think. "Barcelona are guaranteed to get 250m for Messi if they sell him". Hey, they would be guaranteed that even if there wasn't a release clause, if the club just decided they will refuse all offers less than that.

Then there's someone like Fabian Delph, who went only for £8m, because when he signed his new contract at Aston Villa, he had the bargaining power to add such a low release clause. "£8m release clause in my new contract or I won't sign it and will be free in 6 months".

A buy-out clause in a player's contract is always a sign of the player having had the bargaining power to include such a clause when the contract was negotiated, because buy-out clauses are bad for clubs. If Barcelona's youngsters have low buy-out clauses, it's because those promising kids would probably have gone elsewhere if they didn't get a "safe-guard", low release clause in their contract.

by rwo power Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:03 pm

It's similar for quite some German clubs - people often wonder why players often have low release clauses... Sometimes it is a trade-off. The players accept lower wages in exchange for a comparatively low release clause, and that way a club with little money can afford to sign a player they otherwise never could have signed - but the down-side it that often after a year or so that player might leave for a low fee.

by VanDeezNuts Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:47 pm

It is a good thing for these kids, especially playing at a monster club like Barca where the chances to play 1st team football are understandably tough.

Gives them the option to opt out of their contract basically.

Obviously the players and their agents are the ones who fight for this and although they aren't the ridiculous sums that some players have for release clauses- it benefits the club too. It is guaranteed money.

If the parent club really wanted the player they would re-negotiate before dealings went on to have an outside club activate the release clause.

by Donuts Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:50 pm

The Franchise wrote:Donuts, I dont want to make this thread about Barca. But when you said "big clauses are only put on players like messi who started in first division at age 17 or teenagers like halilovic who are bought from other teams".

Thats simply not true and ill leave it at that.

how is it not true? i've shown you my examples you brought up pedro and you were wrong, or song.
and to clarify i didn't just mean messi, i meant bartra, thiago even rafinha.. players who at a young age already made the first team.

people like adama, grimaldo, samper haven't done that yet and are already 19, 19 and 20 years old.. and the fact they haven't played the first team isn't down to the board or the negotiator it's all down to our head coach who refuses to play them.

i also agree with vandeez, if we as we REALLY wanted adama he'd be playing for us even in the preseason friendlies and have a new contract.
IF the rumor is true then it just means we value adama for the price his release clause has.

our board gets a lot of shit and its understandable but this is the least thing they should get criticized for.. it's more enrique's fault for not trusting the youth than our board.

by The Franchise Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:49 pm

Its not the ONLY big buy out clauses..we give out big ones to many.

I understand your point but I think your not taking into account what I said. The problem is your blanket statement of "ALL".

What are you getting at when you say that? That buy out clauses are only reserved for certain players? Well that isnt the case.

Yes, those guys who havent offically been promoted dont have those clauses and when they do get promoted, they will get them. I understand that.

However, I am saying that is a bad decision by the club.

Yes, I also agree about playing Adama and what we value him as...what I am saying is, the value is wrong.

Why does it only have to be one persons fault? Enrique is to blame for not playing them, we all can see that.

But others have blame for selling them, loaning them or allowing them to be had for low costs.

Thiago left because he didnt play enough, that was Tito's fault.

But he left for only 25m, that was the board's fault. If he doesnt have that stupid clause, he has to be purchased for a real value.

by Donuts Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:59 pm

if he didn't have that stupid clause he might of not even extended his stay with us.

there is a cost to keeping players like thiago in a bench, especially when we buy cesc that same year and his competition is xavi and iniesta.

his clause essentially either forced us to pick between him and cesc, and we trusted cesc more. (stupidly)
and that is the fault of our managers who are more worried about losing their jobs and aim for instant success (such as enrique)

i can say with certainty that more than 70% of the youth players in our team (and that is generous) would almost never re-sign with us if they were forced to have a high release clause.
high release clause being something unrealistic like 40-50+m for a unproven kid.

by free_cat Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:21 am

Art Morte wrote:Buy-out clauses are a curious thing, because, in principle, clubs don't need them for anything. Without a release clause, clubs can refuse every offer for their players. If there is a buy-out clause, that makes the club powerless if the clause is met.

If Messi's release clause is €250m it doesn't give any added power to the club, like some seem to think. "Barcelona are guaranteed to get 250m for Messi if they sell him". Hey, they would be guaranteed that even if there wasn't a release clause, if the club just decided they will refuse all offers less than that.

Then there's someone like Fabian Delph, who went only for £8m, because when he signed his new contract at Aston Villa, he had the bargaining power to add such a low release clause. "£8m release clause in my new contract or I won't sign it and will be free in 6 months".

A buy-out clause in a player's contract is always a sign of the player having had the bargaining power to include such a clause when the contract was negotiated, because buy-out clauses are bad for clubs. If Barcelona's youngsters have low buy-out clauses, it's because those promising kids would probably have gone elsewhere if they didn't get a "safe-guard", low release clause in their contract.

In Spain Clubs have to include a release clause by law.

Our release clause for some of our youngsters are too low. Adama and Samper going for 15 and 12 milion would be great business for whomever purchases them.

by Art Morte Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:41 am

Well, you can't keep them all. It's difficult to break into Barca's first-team. If Barca really wanted to keep those players, obviously they could, just offer a big contract and first-team football.

by Cruijf Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:29 pm

I honestly feel as if Barca is a special case, because their fans are the only ones I know of that will actually be upset if their youth are not used, regardless of the success of the first team.

If any other club won the treble, and then proceeded to continue with the transfer strategies that got them said treble, the fans would be delighted.

But the thing that makes being a Barca manager a nigh impossible job is that you're expected to win AND bring in youth. Guardiola could only kick Ronaldinho out because a) he wasn't good enough anymore and b) he had Messi. Do you really want Enrique to kick someone like Busquets out (who himself was a youth product) just so he can replace a WC player with a younger, potential WC player? Of course not. This is partly why continued success, without ever having dips or transition seasons, is impossible. Either you suffer a dip because your core players decline, or you suffer a dip because you overhaul the squad and have to wait for your young players to reach the level your core players were previously at.

And I know someone is going to say, "well you don't have to kick Busquets out (an example), we just want players like Samper to have more minutes." But the truth is, playing youngsters sparingly will neither help them improve particularly quickly nor keep them happy. Were players like Pedro, Busquets, and Messi weaned into the squad, bit by bit? Maybe at first, but once they got to 21 or 22 they were starters. Can you really promise that to any of Barca's current youngsters?

by free_cat Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:33 pm

It's true, you can't kick busquets.
But you can not sign Turan, and give his minutes to Samper.
Or you can not sign Aleix Vidal and gives his minutes to Adam Traore as RB.
You can not sign Vermaelen and Mathieu and give their minutes to Bartra.
Etc.

by rwo power Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:21 pm

Cruijf wrote:I honestly feel as if Barca is a special case, because their fans are the only ones I know of that will actually be upset if their youth are not used, regardless of the success of the first team.

It is not just Barca - in Germany, the fans strongly prefer the clubs' youth products to be used, too.

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