What does Barcelona's treble say about Luis Enrique as a manager?

i agree with Fußball on that one, guardiola brought discipline, and henry had hernia issues for a large part of that season. people try to make it look like he picked some scrubs and turned them into pure gem...and as pointed out xavi and iniesta were making waves for spain in euros (david villa, was a large part of spain's renaissance , imo probably as big as xavi but people for whatever reason tend to leave leave him out)....

Not really let's go through it all.

Iniesta wasn't even a starter and Xavi wasn't much of a factor. Abidal was meh ( people at the time wanted him sold) Pique, Busquets, Toure, Alves didn't exist as Barca players.

Henry was probably the best forward that year and even he was meh as was Eto'o. The entire team was turned around, be it whether they were replaced or he just vastly improved their performance from the previous year in most cases.

Not to mention his tactics in big games were evidently a massive reason they were so successful, as good as the individuals were there was very few games won by individual brilliance like there were this year.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

Not to mention his tactics in big games were evidently a massive reason they were so successful, as good as the individuals were there was very few games won by individual brilliance like there were this year.

That's totally made up to satisfy the "MSN" media agenda. There hasn't been any more "individual brilliance" than before this season. There is a difference between 3 world class strikers combining well and "relying on individual brilliance". Individual brilliance is when Messi takes the ball in midfield and does this on his own:



Messi finding Neymar time and time again with a studied diagonal pass or Messi making a throughball to Suarez who sideway passes it to Neymar to tap in is hardly "individual brilliance" that wasn't seen before. I have no clue why people say this. Pep's Barca relied a lot more on "impossible plays" by individuals because his tactics meant the opposition was allowed to regroup defensively due to Barca's methodical buildup and then the Barca players tried to pass it through a block of 11 men behind the ball which required inhuman skill by Messi, Xavi and Iniesta.





Rabbit out of the hat stuff. Hardly sustainable tactics with any other players.

Fubball cementing himself as a GOAT poster today.

we are not worthy

Never said it didn't happen, just that fantastic positional and team play were more of a factor that out right individual brilliance most of the time.

If anything it has been argued many times that Pep didn't allow the freedom for individuals to succeed as much as they could because it was so much about the team play.

Second season is always the hardest esp when back of a historic campaign. So Lucho's biggest challenge starts here onwards.

Lucho's a hard task master. He's re-instilled discipline, and tightened things at the back (Unzué takes much credit) whilst relying on faster transitional play and verticality.
That said, much of our team had a lot to prove after a disappointing club season and summer heartbreak. So it was in a way easier to exploit that hunger.
But now that Barca's back to winning ways, with the likelihood of Intl success to some of our players + transfer ban, Lucho has his work cut out.

I read an interview from Pique a while back, where he said Enrique came in with the idea of playing Suarez and Neymar as 'central wingers' with the CM's playing wide covering for the WB's who would be providing the width. He later went on to say that Barca couldn't play like that because the middle was too congested.

Apparently, there was a moment where Enrique wasn't sure what to do, and he was tinkering with different options. Luckily for him the players came up with their own solution, Messi found himself on the RW and told Suarez to stay in the middle.

From then on, Lucho told Suarez to stay as a striker and he made some tweaks to make the system work. He let the forwards do their own thing, made Alves play a more reserved role,if Messi drifts centrally Rakitic occupies the right side. Also added a counter attacking element to the team.

And tbh, I think that's what Barca ultimately needed. They had a great team that just required small tweaks in style to get back to the top. Lets not forget, his rotation/training policy also helped them a great deal considering Barca looked a lot fresher than the other teams they faced later on in the season. Compare that to the last two years where they looked incredibly tired during this stage of the season.

The old Kovacs vs Rinus Michels debate. The parallels between Ajax in the 70s and Barvelona now is staggering, especially when you throw in the connections between the clubs.

that 4-0 against us was a shocking job by Ranieri firstly, I remind we played 4-4-2 with Palombo in midfield and Poli as winger

In Roma he was enough shocking tbh , I remind Roma was raped by Lecce and Atalanta , never seen Lecce doesn't try for the 4rd goal for respect towards Roma ... but I didn't follow him in Celta ... he showed interesting things or was he called just because he was former Barca ?

Well Luis Enrique rotated his team in the first half of the season whereas Real Madrid didn't. Madrid eventually fell away at the end of the season partly because they ran their players into the ground while Barcelona remained fresh.

Is Luis Enrique getting any credit for managing the workload of his team, or do fans still believe rotation was the wrong move and he should have played MSN as much as possible?

After 5 years without Pep barca is still the best in the world. So this was really Pep who made them the best? It was players for me. Nobody rated Iniesta because Ronaldinho was doing funny tricks and took all the attention. They all were top class players since 2005. They just needed humble and down to earth Messi as the main star to play relaxed and to get their self-esteem. With Eto and Ronaldinho as main bulls they were like pressured children

Riijkard is the main creator and Pep continued policy with different stars. They all have roles its not just Pep

Fußball wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Well the reason he doesnt get the credit on the same level as Pep is quite simple really.

Before Pep, Barcelona were a awful mess. They already had the talent of Iniesta, Messi and Xavi...but the worrying part was how bad they looked simply because Ronaldinho went off the deep end. The team was truly finished. But Pep did what he did and turned a very bad team into the best in the history of Barcelona and one of the best in the history of anywhere else.

Enrique did much less of a job because the team while damaged badly after the Bayern defeat, was not broken or finished. It required some updates which it never got due to some horrific transfer market decisions.

Absolutely disagree. The team Pep took over was a Paul Scholes wonder volley away from reaching the CL final while Xavi and Iniesta were already the core of Spain's Euro 2008 success. Most of the problems stemed from disciplinary and dressing room issues (Ronaldinho, Deco, partly Eto'o). Pep's biggest achievement as a manager actually had nothing to do with on the pitch coaching or tactics. He brought back discipline and workrate while Messi got over his injury problems.

Pretty similar to Enrique actually. He demoted the finished key contributor of the past (Ronaldinho/Xavi - unlike Ronaldinho Xavi is obviously a top professional so he was a great sub and didn't need to get sold), got rid of the cancer (Fabregas), reintroduced hard work (Messi topping the ball recovery charts) and Messi got over his niggling injuries from 12/13 and 13/14.

Everything else is a matter of taste, whether you prefer holding on to the ball and more midfield dominance or more devastating attacks in transitions from the front 3. But Guardiola hardly did "more" objectively. He actually inherited a much more talented squad in a weaker era of European rivals.

Stop looking at results and start thinking about the game. That Man Utd tie was horrific. We didnt create anything, we didnt look like scoring at any point...I remember people like Ruud Guilett remarking that "Barcelona looked like they didnt even want to be there". That team was finished...Rijkaard was finished. He was given a second year with a finished team only because he deserved the benefit of the doubt, but the team was obviously done.

You have no right talking about tactics lol

You keep getting it wrong on that end.

He hardly did more? That is factually incorrect. You can the difference a matter of taste if you like, but most people dont agree.

It says that he is a good manager.
He's been good in the following areas:

- Set pieces (credit to unzue), both in defence and offence.
- Defense coaching.
- Fitness: We've been more fit than any other team in Europe except Juve.
- tactical flexibily: He shown several variations like playing with 3 narrow forwards at the begining of the season, a 352 against PSG and our acceptation of defending deep and counterattacking if needed.

He had a dubious start overrotating and trusting Xavi in big games, and especially with his man-management and press-relationiship, but he was able to turn it around.

I thank him for making the players angry. This is what bored stars needed. I dont know if it was just luck but he arrived at time

People can undermine him as much as they want, but I agree with free here:

* He made Pique a great defender again! Just imagine a year ago he was all waka waka on the field!

* We can counter very good (though we had such moments under Tata as well)

* We can score/defend set pieces

* Fitness coaching

* Motivating players, remember our team was in shambles with Tito's death and scandals!

* Having game plan A, B or even C which we almost never did since Pep team.

He might not be top 5, but if he can keep it up, he will get there eventually.

It says that he's a wonderful manager. MSN or not MSN it's not easy to win a treble.

BBC is even better for some than MSN and yet they won nothing.

linetty wrote:It says that he's a wonderful manager. MSN or not MSN it's not easy to win a treble.

BBC is even better for some than MSN and yet they won nothing.

Anyone in their right senses?..

Bankz wrote:

linetty wrote:It says that he's a wonderful manager. MSN or not MSN it's not easy to win a treble.

BBC is even better for some than MSN and yet they won nothing.

Anyone in their right senses?..

Obviously not. But Madrid's team is as good yet they won nothing.

Manager plays a huge role and Enrique should be given tons of credit. Only haters and losers won't notice that.

Hapless_Hans wrote:Never met a group of fans willing to give their coach so little credit for a bloody TREBLE WIN.

What does it say about him? That he's an excellent coach.

The Franchise wrote:

Fußball wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Well the reason he doesnt get the credit on the same level as Pep is quite simple really.

Before Pep, Barcelona were a awful mess. They already had the talent of Iniesta, Messi and Xavi...but the worrying part was how bad they looked simply because Ronaldinho went off the deep end. The team was truly finished. But Pep did what he did and turned a very bad team into the best in the history of Barcelona and one of the best in the history of anywhere else.

Enrique did much less of a job because the team while damaged badly after the Bayern defeat, was not broken or finished. It required some updates which it never got due to some horrific transfer market decisions.

Absolutely disagree. The team Pep took over was a Paul Scholes wonder volley away from reaching the CL final while Xavi and Iniesta were already the core of Spain's Euro 2008 success. Most of the problems stemed from disciplinary and dressing room issues (Ronaldinho, Deco, partly Eto'o). Pep's biggest achievement as a manager actually had nothing to do with on the pitch coaching or tactics. He brought back discipline and workrate while Messi got over his injury problems.

Pretty similar to Enrique actually. He demoted the finished key contributor of the past (Ronaldinho/Xavi - unlike Ronaldinho Xavi is obviously a top professional so he was a great sub and didn't need to get sold), got rid of the cancer (Fabregas), reintroduced hard work (Messi topping the ball recovery charts) and Messi got over his niggling injuries from 12/13 and 13/14.

Everything else is a matter of taste, whether you prefer holding on to the ball and more midfield dominance or more devastating attacks in transitions from the front 3. But Guardiola hardly did "more" objectively. He actually inherited a much more talented squad in a weaker era of European rivals.

Stop looking at results and start thinking about the game. That Man Utd tie was horrific. We didnt create anything, we didnt look like scoring at any point...I remember people like Ruud Guilett remarking that "Barcelona looked like they didnt even want to be there". That team was finished...Rijkaard was finished. He was given a second year with a finished team only because he deserved the benefit of the doubt, but the team was obviously done.

You have no right talking about tactics lol

You keep getting it wrong on that end.

He hardly did more? That is factually incorrect. You can the difference a matter of taste if you like, but most people dont agree.

Crazy analysis. Barca was clearly the dominant team in the tie. Clear scoring chances were rare because they were parking the bus but that applied for both sides. The general flow of the game was clearly dominated by Barca. Here is the match summary with the game stats: http://www1.skysports.com/football/live/match/101718/report

Barca vs. United:

Shots on target: 6 vs. 1
Shots off target: 8 vs. 3
Blocked shots: 6 vs. 3
Corners: 8 vs. 3
Passing accuracy: 89.4 % vs. 74.3 %
Possession: 72.8 % vs. 27.2 %

20 year old Messi was also just coming back from an injury and had to be replaced by Bojan after 60 minutes.

For a finished team to force a Ferguson side which eventually ended up European champions with Ronaldo, Tevez and Rooney upfront into parking the bus just shows the potential of the team. The team itself wasn't finished at all. Rijkaard was finished but not the team (dressing room cancers like Dinho aside, which was the main problem to begin with). It was only some disciplinary measurements + young Messi and Iniesta entering their best years away from getting back to the top. A lot of things came together at the right time.

Now this isn't to say Guardiola didn't do anything major. Obviously he did. Yet his biggest success was to bring back discipline, motivation and hard work.

He won the treble...the TREBLE.. for that he deserves credit regardless of how he was carried or whatever.

Obviously he's no goat like Pep, who revolutionised football with his mouth watering style of play and won an infinite amount of trophies over several years.

You can keep all those stats because I watched the game...heck if I could I would go find the comments I made on the game because im quite sure I was on this forum even that far back. I remember vividly commenting on Zambrotta's mistake which made the Scholes goal possible.

Anyway to the stats..

shots = chances?

Barcelona had passing accuracy and possession advantage...surprising

We had alot of possession, and did nothing with it. No ideas, noone able to dribble a man (minus not fit Messi if im not mixing up the games) and just very unimaginative play all around. Man Utd were comfortable defending us.

Of course Man Utd parked the bus...where did I say we didnt have talent? Its not accomplishment to have other teams park the bus..they knew if they did that we had no ideas. We had plenty talent..but the team was horrible and finished. Even the best teams who parked the bus on us, had to rely on us missing chances under Pep...but this game was different, this game and the game the previous year against Liverpool were two brutal performances to watch for the same reasons.

Both ties could of been played for another 2 hours and I dont think we would have scored.

No the players we not finished, not all of them...otherwise we wouldnt be having the convo because Pep managed to get a high level from them...but he team was done. They relied on Ronaldinho and Deco to create and both no longer had it. So the team fell apart.

Raptorgunner wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:Never met a group of fans willing to give their coach so little credit for a bloody TREBLE WIN.

What does it say about him? That he's an excellent coach.

People giving all the credit to MSN like they were not there when teams were ripping us a new one..
This guy just won a TREBLE ffs!!!

title will read Barcelonas second sextuple, not treble

Bankz wrote:

Raptorgunner wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:Never met a group of fans willing to give their coach so little credit for a bloody TREBLE WIN.

What does it say about him? That he's an excellent coach.

People giving all the credit to MSN like they were not there when teams were ripping us a new one..
This guy just won a TREBLE ffs!!!

Cause before he had that break up with Messi and Neymar, we looked beatable at times and he was experimenting with the squad literally every week. Then after that he practically started the same 11 and we started to go on a winning streak. So it came off as his way was what we were doing the first half of the season, and the 2nd half was him bending towards what Messi and Neymar wanted, and that's when the continuous wins came. During Peps era, it was blatantly Peps tactics that were making us marvelous to watch, while this time around it's watching the front 3 work magic (not taking nothing away from Lucho, but I can deff see why people don't credit him the same way Pep was credited)

So barca play Bilbao (super Copa), Sevilla (Euro super cup) and Random team from random continent for (world club cup) sextuple on the cards anyone?