Die Mannschaft aim to dominate the world football for the next decade

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Post by Football Enthusiast Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:34 pm

Hello dear GL members!! It's been quite a while since I opened up an account here but for unknown reason I continued to lurk around here rather than to share my thoughts/views/opinions about football. But anyways I'll try to be more active from now on. So I recently came across this interview of Joachim Löw (http://www.sportskeeda.com/football/germany-aim-dominate-decade-coach-joachim-loew) which made me think this may be an interesting topic to discuss. I've read before that how German football reinvented itself after 2000; German football that once suffered a disappointing Euro 2000 now boasts as weltmeister which is the result of their years of hard works, proper planning, strategy formulation and it's successful implementation. So what do you people think about Löw's interview? Will Die Mannschaft dominate over the football world for the next decade or will we see someone else worthy enough to challenge their reign?
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Post by Collblanc Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:52 pm

Load of BS. This WC was horrible and Germany wasnt even the worthy winners. Not the better team. If Higuain/Messi burried their chances it would have been 3-0 before ET.

Its a German thing to be very cocky.
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Post by rwo power Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:30 pm

What's the problem in saying "we aim to dominate world football"? He didn't say "we will".

Should Löw say "Okay, we have the World Cup, now we aim to disappear in oblivion again"?
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Post by zigra Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:34 pm

Löw should absolutely sink into oblivion... the sooner the better :coffee:
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:49 pm

We are not in fact called "Die Mannschaft" in real life.
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Post by Football Enthusiast Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:32 pm

@Collblanc: You are literally the first one I've come across since the WC '14 who said that the German team didn't deserve to win the title. Yes Messi, Pipita, Palacio all missed their opportunities to score in the final and the final was really entertaining which could have gone either side but I won't say Germany isn't worthy enough to win WC '14.

@rwo power: As the coach of the current champion he can set a high ambition for his team and there's nothing wrong in it.

@Hapless_Hans: Pardon my ignorance, I used the term Die Mannschaft because I thought this is the nickname for German national football team.
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Post by Football Enthusiast Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:36 pm

Everyone, I started this thread to discuss about how plausible Löw’s statements in this interview and if you agree that German football will be unstoppable/dominating for the next decade or at least in the next two world cups then why would you think like that? Or if you think that there might be others who will emerge/comeback as the new football superpower then who do you think that new force in the world football scenario will be and why?
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:44 pm

How long has it been since a country won back to back world cups? It's becoming more of a trend for WC winning sides to actually flop the next time around. It is harder to sack succesful coaches and often these coaches have strong biases towards the players that got them that success rather than picking the best options (Lippi, VDB). The motivation to win a 2nd WC is also quite different than to win the 1st one, so players also have some responsibility.

France 1998 --> Groups 2002
Brazil 2002 --> Quarters 2006
Italy 2006 --> Groups 2010
Spain 2010 --> Groups 2014
Germany 2014 --> ? 2018

Now Germany only had an average age of 26.3  in the WC and they have several good young players, not to mention that they're pretty stacked in every position and this is unlikely to change over the next 4 years. The climate of Russia is also more similar to Germany than, say, Argentina or Brazil. So the trend will probably not hold very well (certainly not an exit in the groups stage), but it is a big question mark over their ability to actually win it.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:59 pm

No I don't, everytime a team wins something these questions get asked about domination and almost always they fail.

Reason being is football evolves and usually when a team wins something they have some sort of technical, tactical and physical edge. (sometimes all 3) Over time as teams adapt that advantage erodes, not to mention the natural competitive edge of teams wanting to beat the champion.

Plus I don't care how good people perceive the kids to be, it's highly unlikely they will be as good as the key members of the current team. Just like how Barca found out with the decline of their spine.

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Post by Hapless_Hans Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:13 pm

@Football Enthusiast wrote:
@Hapless_Hans: Pardon my ignorance, I used the term Die Mannschaft because I thought this is the nickname for German national football team.


It's not the nickname of the German national team, but apparently it is what some English speaking journalists have come to believe is the nickname, probably originating with someone trying to sound extra knowledgeable while in fact embarrassingly misundertanding something.
"Die Mannschaft" is simply the word for 'team', any team, and that's how it's used.

Not your fault obviously.

As for world domination, that's what we always strive for, and it's known that football is merely our substitute drug for world wars.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:20 pm

What happened the last time Germans strived for World Domination and went to Russia? hmm
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:20 pm

Winter started surprisingly early, else everything would have gone just swell.
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Post by Football Enthusiast Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:21 pm

@BarrileteCosmico: I say Germany got really good players and they have good chance to advance a long way at least in WC 2018 and even if they don't win the tournament, but a second place or a third place will still be considered as a very good result despite of the fact that they won the WC '14.

I know I sound a bit too optimistic about them but West Germany played three consecutive WC finals in '82, '86 and '90. But anyway this is not the '80s anymore and modern football is very dynamic so things are quite different now.
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Post by Football Enthusiast Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:26 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:"Die Mannschaft" is simply the word for 'team', any team, and that's how it's used.

Thanks for clearing that up.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:28 pm

That's kinda similar to how everyone outside of Argentina calls our NT the 'albiceleste' but this is almost never used by Argentines.
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Post by Chumlum Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:37 pm

@Collblanc wrote:Load of BS. This WC was horrible and Germany wasnt even the worthy winners. Not the better team. If Higuain/Messi burried their chances it would have been 3-0 before ET.


If only they'd taken their chances. If only there were, like, a competition in which these teams could square off, and players could be given chances, and we could see who takes those chances, and who doesn't, and then we'd know who's better in that kind of setting. If only ...

Wink

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:No I don't, everytime a team wins something these questions get asked about domination and almost always they fail.

Reason being is football evolves and usually when a team wins something they have some sort of technical, tactical and physical edge. (sometimes all 3) Over time as teams adapt that advantage erodes, not to mention the natural competitive edge of teams wanting to beat the champion.

Plus I don't care how good people perceive the kids to be, it's highly unlikely they will be as good as the key members of the current team. Just like how Barca found out with the decline of their spine.



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Post by Football Enthusiast Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:38 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:That's kinda similar to how everyone outside of Argentina calls our NT the 'albiceleste' but this is almost never used by Argentines.


I use this term 'La Albiceleste' to address the Argentina NT which I've been supporting since my childhood. But is this totally wrong addressing your NT with it? I'm asking because the wikipedia page for Argentina NT has this term written as nickname for Argentine national football team.
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Post by rwo power Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:45 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:We are not in fact called "Die Mannschaft" in real life.
Unfortunately there is this stupid movie "Die Mannschaft" which was made last year after the World Cup that makes it appear so nonetheless :facepalm:

People, if you want to be hipsters, please say "DFB-Team", "DFB-Elf" or "Nationalelf" or even "Nationalmannschaft", but not just "Mannschaft".

"Mannschaft" really sounds more like the crew of a ship or an airplane in German ears.
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Post by Lord Spencer Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:46 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:Winter started surprisingly early, else everything would have gone just swell.


Winter always starts "very early" for foolish conquerors. In the real world, its called tactical incompetence.

On topic, Germany clearly worked hard to improve their football after 200, which shows in every level in their game. This consistency and the fact that there is a science and actual work plan behind it is one reason I am always going to poise the Germans as favorites in the coming decade or two.

Contrast that with other world powers like Italy, Argentina, and Brazil. Italy basically won the world cup on the backs of a crazy talented Milan team, and very solid Juventus. This correlates to quality in the NT basically coming from quality in the league. A trend that shows why Italy has been strong since the 80s, but are not beginning to really decline as Serie A hits its worst slump in decades.

Argentina and Brazil basically depend on talent that is both cultivated and improved abroad. Then, they suddenly need to make these players work well together in a month or so.

Spain, were basically the work on one team translating well outside of it.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:49 pm

I'd argue Spain have always been dominated by Barca and Madrid players with a sprinkling of Bilbao, Atletico and Valencia thrown on.

The difference with this team is they actually got on with each other lol, as Madrid and Barca players were always fighting with each other in the past.
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Post by rwo power Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:50 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:How long has it been since a country won back to back world cups? It's becoming more of a trend for WC winning sides to actually flop the next time around.
Well, on the other hand, the German NT usually ends in the business end of a World Cup in the last years.

2002 - 2.
2006 - 3.
2010 - 3.
2014 - 1.

So going out in the group stage would be more than a major disappointment.
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Post by Football Enthusiast Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:07 pm

@Lord Spencer wrote:Argentina and Brazil basically depend on talent that is both cultivated and improved abroad. Then, they suddenly need to make these players work well together in a month or so.
I think that's why it is difficult for Brazil or Argentina NT coaches to make all the players effectively connect/work in international matches.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:09 pm

@Football Enthusiast wrote:I use this term 'La Albiceleste' to address the Argentina NT which I've been supporting since my childhood. But is this totally wrong addressing your NT with it? I'm asking because the wikipedia page for Argentina NT has this term written as nickname for Argentine national football team.
It's not super wrong because it is sometimes used by Argentine media (solely because you run out of ways of saying "the national team" when writing columns so they appreciate the diversity) but you'll almost never find an actual Argentine call it that in a conversation.
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Post by BAYERN_MUNICH Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:19 pm

We normally say "Die Deutschen", "Deutschland" or "Die Nationalmannschaft". At least all the people in munich i know.

The more i think about it, i think we alway say "Deutschland".
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Post by rwo power Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:37 pm

Well, in news tickers I have often enough seen "DFB-Elf" or even "DFB-Team". I guess the media people went for brevity there.

I most likely say "Nationalelf" or "Nationalmannschaft", if I don't say "unsere Jungs" ("our boys"), but then, I'm not from Bavaria. ^^
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