Lazio - Milan

Except the 4-4-2 , i agree with everything , well said. We have never dominated anyone with Inzaghi at the helm and how could we when give everyone the initiative? Most of our wins have come from struggling to keep the lead , surrendering the pitch and the play to opponents . Sometimes by choice , sometimes by inability .

I am tired of saying we can't play football , but we just can't and these practises and tactics are to be blamed. Compare this shit we are watching today with the problems we had last season. Allegri , with a worse team than that , had Milan finish a game against Genoa with 39 shots . 39 shots ffs . Compare that shit to our 2 tonight. 2nd time it happens after Torino , just like you say , same game , just worse.

This isn't the same as with Allegri... Not Allegri nor Seedorf had one game with the team making 2 shots . Not just that , no one of them had the nerve to say "i'm not the problem" . They always took responsibility , well deserved or not. This was one of the worst Milan games i have ever seen in my life tbh , it was that bad.

As for the 4-4-2 that you mentioned , i disagree i think the formation wasn't an issue here , it was what we were doing and especially what we weren't doing tacticaly that destroyed us. For example no pressure , no width , no intention of keeping the ball , no fixes during half time , you said a lot in your post too no need to repeat it all here. Inzaghi went 4-2-3-1 after Van Ginkel went off for Pazzini. And not only did Pazzini suck hard , our midfield and defence were non existant after that. I've said it before , i like the 4-2-3-1 and what it brings , but we don't have the defence for it right now. And if our defence was bad first half , after the formation change it went tragic mode.

Sadly , Inzaghi imho is doing a very average work with Milan so far. Just the fact he says we aren't the Milan we were in December says it all , just because we won Napoli and draw Roma. 2 games , in which we were inferior but at least played our cards right . And in Roma's case , it was mostly them having their own issues than us claiming a positive result anyway.

To put it down simply , we lost because Inzaghi didn't make changes during half-time and also because of what he wanted from the team . I thought he wanted to attack and all that with that midfield , but he sticked to the same formula. Lol with that midfield he put in and he never changed anything tacticaly. Just like in most games , fall deep and counter attack when we can . That's it. With Poli-Montolivo-Van Ginkel , inviting pressure and wanting to be attacked

And after we went 1-1 ; He goes 4-2-3-1 and compromises the defence. Put on top of that he never subd Mexes out and you have the game we saw . Muntari in 82 after we lost the game with the scoreline being 3-1 was the icing on the cake really , i laughed at that.

Forza wrote:

Dante wrote:

Cruijf wrote:1-0!!!!!!!

Inb4 we collapse and lose 3-1

Yep. I'm not even surprised.

well i expected problems on the counters too but not this shit ffs

I'd write something lengthy about this game, but I think you can just go back to the SaToLanta discussions if you so desire another helping of pain and misery. Nothing has changed as a result of those games, so the analysis remains the same for the Lazio game.

Indeed . well said

tbh i am too pretty much tired of it all myself , what's to analyse and talk about anymore

I feel fatigued by watching this Milan team. It seems that Milan are doomed to continue to repeat the same mistakes forever.

I feel like up until the summer of 2013 I could have pointed out where we needed signings, where we needed to reinforce, how to go forward. Now there is nothing we can do in the short term, the problems are far too many and far too intertwined. Its like when your wires get so mixed up you don't know what to do and just start pulling different wires to check which one is the loosest. Its mental, its structural, its tactical, its organisational. Its quality and heart, intelligence and bravery. Everything is wrong with this team.

good points both.

sadly the management has simply stopped getting the right people as they did in the past , wherever that would be , because it costs . That's mostly it.

Nowadays all they care is not losing money , that's what really concerns them. They sold the team bus ffs

Now the poll should be "depresso" or "depressino"

The cost argument is bulls**t.

Our so-called "free agents" are actually our most expensive players. It's a paradox because Milan appear to be buying low quality, cheap options. In fact, Milan are buying players who are extremely expensive in the long-term.

Free agency, for those who don't know, is a situation that arises when a player is not contracted to any club, but remains on the transfer market. This enables a club to contract for that player's services without paying a transfer fee. However, the wages Milan are paying to these players are enormous.

What if I told you that Mexes, a free-agent who is paid 4 million euros a year, has wages that are only bettered by the following Serie A players: M. Gomez, Tevez, Higuain and De Rossi.

Over 4 years, Mexes will cost us 16 million euros. But that's not all. Think of the opportunity cost! (i.e. what we could've spent that money on instead of Mexes' wages)

That's before taxes. With taxes he costed Milan 32M.TBH he repaid Milan of such money with that 30M CL qualifying goal against Siena

It's funny, after all the chaos of the last two years, with 3 different coaches, a whole host of signings, and constant promises that we are on the way up, we're actually worse off

Forza wrote:The cost argument is bulls**t.

Our so-called "free agents" are actually our most expensive players. It's a paradox because Milan appear to be buying low quality, cheap options. In fact, Milan are buying players who are extremely expensive in the long-term.

Free agency, for those who don't know, is a situation that arises when a player is not contracted to any club, but remains on the transfer market. This enables a club to contract for that player's services without paying a transfer fee. However, the wages Milan are paying to these players are enormous.

What if I told you that Mexes, a free-agent who is paid 4 million euros a year, has wages that are only bettered by the following Serie A players: M. Gomez, Tevez, Higuain and De Rossi.

Over 4 years, Mexes will cost us 16 million euros. But that's not all. Think of the opportunity cost! (i.e. what we could've spent that money on instead of Mexes' wages)

while that wasn't the point and even though i do agree that free agents do cost a lot of money , because you have to pay them more than you usually would have , that's not just Galliani being as idiotic as you may think . It isn't bs , it's the reality

To cover all our needs and especially when they identify someone as first option and not just an alternative , it would cost much , much more what all the free agents cost us so far since 2008.  

I don't like what's been happening with the free agents , certainly not to this extend , and yes it's getting ridiculous we pay old blokes money we should be using on realising smart transfers , but this happens solely because in comparison , it's very easy to see which costs less . Less than that , you go to low-table-league B players , or youngsters really . Again , the don't want to lose money and that's their main concern. In any case .

I saw an image of Berlusconi saying he has as much money as Thohir , Perez and the Glazer put together.. 7.1b .

Someone must tell these people that Berlusconi doesn't really have 7.1b in his bank account

I've needed time to mull this game over as I always like to start my posts with some positive highlight before analysing the game as a whole. I'm at a loss though. It's hard to transmit the level of contempt I feel for our performance. If pressed I would say that Cerci's introduction created a greater sense of urgency in possession but it's little comfort after such a tragic display.

It is not uncommon to secure poor results despite playing well however our slump in form is perfectly respective of our efforts on the pitch. We have no identity, no heart and playing like this, no hope. Most concerningly, the starting line up was not inherently poor. Our approach both from a mental and tactical level was incongruent with the team put out on paper. We sat far too deep from the beginning and invited pressure. To do absorb pressure to see out a win is not itself irresponsible. To attempt to do so for essentially the entire game is not only insane but beneath us. We invited defeat and we got what we deserved.

Menez must be commended for a fine individual goal but one which was entirely random in its generation and spoke volumes of the state of our team. We did not press Lazio in a consistent, organised fashion at any stage of the game. Basta's turnover was an essentially unique event. We broke through by hurting Lazio on the transition after our very first proper entry into their half in the entire game, after four minutes. One never refuses a goal but it immediately struck me as a very misleading strike. We started lethargically and might already have conceded twice in the early minutes of the first half, with Jack in particular fortunate to not be called for a penalty. From the very beginning it was apparent though that we lacked confidence and finesse when playing out from the back but furthermore we lacked the movement and presence to go long. Menez' goal highlighted yet another aspect of his play. That is, that he is capable of benefiting only himself on the pitch. None of our other forwards are as likely to produce such a piece of play however they each offer other aspects which are useful elements of an attacking system. Whether it be their ability to function as a reference point, to hold possession and create space for runners or to find a man in space, you can point to some aspect of their play that complements someone else in the side. Menez on the other hand is chaos in action. He is certainly talented enough to create a moment of magic. We've seen it today and throughout much of the season. To build a side around though? Teams surrender the keys to the kingdom to players like Messi, Ibrahimovic, Ronaldo, Totti. There's a reason no one else has ever given Menez such a pivotal role in their side. I've no doubt he'll continue to be our most prolific attacker for the rest of the season, but how do you build around such a figure? Balotelli also drifted rather aimlessly at times but at least he was a foul magnet who could also hold up the ball and let the team rest and move up the pitch. Menez does such things on occasion as well - ironically his debut against Lazio remains his most complete game - but the lack of chemistry and understanding that was shown on the pitch today was truly lamentable.

It was an essentially flawed performance from everyone. I maintain that Bonaventura should be used primarily in midfield - I've no objection to shifting him to the wing in the latter stages to give some game time to our midfield options - and it was a frustrating game to watch from Jack. At times he carried the ball well but he consistently turned the ball over in the first half when trying to turn his full back which immediately put us back under pressure, but this was a team failure, not one man. El Shaarawy had similar difficulties advancing the ball up the pitch with our fullbacks completely unable to influence the game, essentially left in a terrified frenzy trying to recover their position after yet another failed build up. Lazio harassed us from the first pass out from the back and ensured that we couldn't reach the half line cheaply and begin to bring them in to stretch their backline. In midfield, Montolivo had an excellent first half but even he had his hiccups under pressure from Klose but he was combative and recovered more balls than anyone whilst our only positive piece of play in the first half came when he was able to wrest complete control of the middle and pin Lazio back, stretch the play and pick up cheap interceptions from rushed clearances. It was a handcuffed display though given the movement up front and Van Ginkel's stage fright. His action on the second goal deserves criticism and I won't excuse him as Dante has, I think in such situations all involved must share the blame, though Mexes trying to step up to take the pass was a bit odd given the situation. It might even be argued that Lopez should have stopped him on that angle but given his performance and the manner in which he was thrown into the situation, I refrain from apportioning him blame. Montolivo looked flustered on too many occasions during the second half but it's much like Xaviesta against Bayern several years ago now. There is only so much that a midfielder can do at times and when Riccardo made his mistake and on other occasions when he went back, the entire side around him was tragically static. No matter how good a regista is, you can't invent a pass and an angle from nothing. We desperately need an additional player up front who can be trusted to hold onto the ball and play in tight spaces. We needed one even when we had the release valve of a true centre forward up front who could be relied upon to battle for the ball and to be on hand to battle for every hopeful, blasted hoof. Lacking that though, the lack of confidence across the side was even harder to swallow. These are not even technically poor players. Our front six are all individually capable however they shied away from the ball. The one piece of skill everyone seemed to want to show off though was the back heel. It boggles the mind, but after the way we lost to Atalanta, the side went away and decided that the one thing our play lacked was more fancy back heels to no one. Prima donna numbskulls.

Disappointingly, it was a torrid half from Van Ginkel but he was in a way thrown under the bus by his manager. He's been starved of game time, underused all season and then thrown in against a physical and in form Lazio away from home. Pippo's man management of players short on game time has been characteristically poor all season and speaks of a manager short on experience. Armero, Mexes, Pazzini and Van Ginkel have all been subject to random and confusing introductions all season. MVG wasn't helped by some poor individual refereeing calls but it was an ineffective and uninvolved display regardless. As Dante has already said, this was one of those games where we actually could have used Muntari, particularly given our decision to sit back. His eventual introduction was confusingly late and beyond futile however. It was not surprising to see MVG come off for Pazzini but that it was as a response to going behind rather than to what we saw on the pitch was unbelievably frustrating. A manager must consider the result certainly however this tendency to obsess over the scoreline is one of the reasons why we're so poor at holding leads. Pippo makes his decisions based not on whether he thinks we're playing well but whether he's satisfied with the scoreline. When Bayern aren't playing to standard, regardless of the score, Pep will change something, even in the first half. He has confidence that the result will come from their performance and their execution of football's fundamentals. Six minutes of utter buffoonery didn't show Pippo anything that hadn't been apparent in the entire first half though. If our complete inability to reach our opponent's goal an threaten them isn't an issue to Inzaghi until we're behind though, then I have a major problem with his management. Waiting and seeing if the side responds is reasonable for a period of time and caution is understandable late in games when a side has rhythm but we were a basket case from the first minute and there was simply no response. Pippo's approach though only seems to indicate that our performances and our play on the pitch is a secondary concern. That we simply do not care if we impose ourselves on our opposition or not. The talk concerning the arguments amongst the assistants has centred around disputes over whether we should adapt to our opposition each week or play our game all the time. Whatever the majority think, it is clear that the reality is that we've no belief in any style or project. More to the point though we've no pride and we've lost sight of the reality of top class football. All managers adapt to their opposition but they have an independent identity that determines what that adaptation means. When Pep adapts, he doesn't undermine his beliefs, he reinforces them. They adapt so that they can better impose their style of play, not so they can run from it. Adaptation is not an identity, it's a mechanism. That this discussion occurs in the context of nominally chasing third place is all the more farcical. Many have spoken recently of the issue of mentality in Italian football recently, discussing it as a symptom of the lack of competition for Juventus. The best team in Serie A often wins matches before they step onto the pitch because their opposition feels defeated from the start. We benefited from it in our time at the top and Juventus certainly reap the rewards currently, but when sides play us now, they genuinely feel they can take us. All our approach does is encourage them and convince them that they are very much correct. We should be looking to step out each week and be all over our opponents. It's the way you shock sides in Serie A into giving you respect and it's a key component of picking up three points regularly. Our management talk like predators but they act like prey.

The issues with our approach on the ball remain my biggest concern as I fail to see how Inzaghi is trying to improve us or what changes he has affected over the course of the season but reliably, we were not better without it. We have sat back with sides of no less quality in the past and held out Barcelona over 90 minutes. Today we sat back against Lazio and looked like we wouldn't hold out against Barcelona's U12s. Armero was constantly out of position or being beaten anyway whilst Mexes and Alex took turns when playing bad defender, lucky defender to somehow keep a clean sheet in the first half, whilst Abate was the best of a poor lot mostly because he was rarely attacked individually. Really, why would Lazio even bother when they were having so much success on the other side. Klose is a veteran used sparingly nowadays but he looked more like an attacker in his prime today. He was everything we lacked in attack. He ran in behind our backline, he held up the ball and used it quickly and intelligently, he peeled off wide into space and assisted beautifully, he successfully harassed our players who were trying to build up all day long and he pounced to finally get his goal after missing a few chances you'd usually expect him to bury in the first half. It would have been a pleasure to watch if the Laurel and Hardy show he was selling tickets to didn't star our central defence. Alex has been poor since returning from injury and looked a far cry from his dominant debut against Lazio whilst Mexes was not only slow but saw himself caught out of position after his characteristic sojourns into midfield went predictably awry before disgracing himself completely. I can think of nothing more ridiculous than being told to calm down by Sulley Muntari. That he would react badly during a frustrating fixture is understandable. That he would, having been physically wrestled away by several teammates and won a freekick then go and try to choke Mauri when we were trying to restart the match and get back into the game was unforgivable. I defended his return to the team but if that is how he is going to act then give De Santis a run and send this muppet to the reserves in his place until he learns how to behave. Mauri's criminal scum but Mexes truly tried to sink to another level entirely.

Losing to Lazio is nothing new, but at least in the days of Allegri we'd outplay them but fail to finish our chances before making the same stupid mistakes. Now we can't even buy a chance to save our lives. Pippo has a chance to show he's learnt something when we play Lazio again in the Coppa but I am growing increasingly less kind about his tenure. I'm not going to speak hastily now when stuck in a bitter moment, however unless we see some sort of a reaction in the next month, his position should be questioned.

TLDR: Sell Pippo, Sack the team.

Sorry lads, there was no chance you were beating us last night.

Aaaaah shaduup.

Excellent synopsis of the game Dostoevsky. So many good points and frankly , says a lot of not just about the game we had , but Inzaghi's flaws so far. I agree with every thing you said , but not on that tiny part on Montolivo. Bare in mind only on that , him too had a bad game 2nd half , even in the last 15m of the first he barely had any serious say .

If you don't mind me saying though , i didn't necessarily 'excuse' Montolivo . And i agree with your reasoning and the arguments you used btw , you put it very well. Now , i do know it seems exactly like an excuse . Even if i concede that the pass was unnecessary or even lame if you like , or simply a wrong decision by him ; it wasn't poorly made , or a pass that was so off the mark that Mexes couldn't handle it. I've seen Mexes on his day handle worse than that and be much more focused and responsive. That's what really happened , he was off . It happens when you suck on the field , you don't have a clear head. I am simply 100% sure that if Rami or Zapata or just about any other CB we have had been in his place , that wouldn't have happened , whatever Montolivo's action was in truth . My issue wasn't necessarily Montolivo , it's the ridiculous reaction of Mexes .

The pass wasn't even bad , it wasn't like Nacho's pass in the friendly with Real , nothing like that. It was just a simple backpass in a straight line and quite near him , that went just off to his side.

But Mexes had put himself off circulation . He never expected a pass and was put off . While that isn't a crime per se , when you are in your teammate's perimetre , you cannot do that. You can't just go off and relax and not be focused and available. His reaction to the pass is 100% proof of what i say. Leave aside how Montolivo's backpassing is well known , Mexes should have known better than to go off . So , Montolivo makes the pass and Mexes was left stunned .

Not only he didn't see it coming , but even if i accept that somehow it wasn't his fault to be allowed not to expect a pass when being near the ball , the real fault here is how he reacted ; rooted in his position , he lost it . That happens in football , but it's never a good excuse how problematic the pass was . When your reaction is staying rooted , it becomes your mistake.

I have no doubts whatsoever , had that been Rami or Zapata or Bonera even , this wouldn't have happened. Let alone how Mexes should have been sent off by half-time anyway . The truth is , Mexes had a miserable match , one pass slightly to his side , isn't an excuse that i make for Montolivo , it was clear lack of composure and clear head by Mexes' part . Such things happen in the game all the time , players don't just go off-mode because the pass didn't rest at their feet on the platter , never mention that he was practicaly alone to receive the pass , Klose exploited the mistake after Mexes stound his ground. The difference here : Had Mexes actually took possesion of the ball or simply slightly missing it by moving to get it , that would be Montolivo's fault . But something tells me that had he actually done his simple part and just move , again none of this would have happened.

You can't blame the messenger when you had the letter sitting on your doorstep but you didn't move your ass to get it ; that's what i am saying.

But anyway , even if it is an excuse solely on Montolivo , it would not be without good reason . I can't blame Montolivo for a simple backpass , especially when like you said his teammates in front of him were making his life difficult . Backpasses happen all the time , for crying out loud . I do understand however how it all seems , so i won't bother with this anymore , you are free to hold onto your opinion and me to mine . Ultimately , who was more at fault on that one bares little importance to the grand scheme of things , the 2nd goal would have just came from another chance and not suprisingly , again that would be from Mexes side , were all the goals came . They simply destroyed us there. First with Van Ginkel's total lack of defensive side and then with Armero-Mexes being miserable. Whatever the case ,

after the game Mexes had , the entire game , it's a little strange that i have to explain how bad Mexes was on that too. It's not even a question of speed or what force the ball had , his reaction is all you need , whatever Montolivo did there it doesn't change the fact that Mexes escalated the issue . Klose just did the obvious after that , had Mexes been not in control , but moved to be even in relative control of the ball , Klose would have slowed down / wouldn't take controll of the ball , rather go in balls deep like he did. I won't blame the pass for that , a pass which was right there for Mexes to take.

I completely understand Dos' sentiment because I've been thinking through it for most of this season. Where do you start to fix a team that plays like it has no identity?

I don't want Milan to be the sort of club that burns coaches every 6 months, but our current situation is hopeless. Pippo has had 4 good chances post-break to show that he is moulding this bunch of individuals into a team, but it's not coming together at all. I dare say he won't get another chance after the next game. In all honesty, I think he's lucky not to have already been fired after this game.

Galliani must act in the transfer market immediately to restore some confidence in the team. He needs to ring up Berlusconi and tell him to pull out his chequebook (or sell the club and put me out of my misery). I don't think that the current playing group is up to the task of rectifying the mistakes of years of bungled transfer policy.

Meanwhile, Thorir is putting Berlusconi to shame across town. Sure, Inter aren't in great shape themselves, but there's at least a semblance of a project there. They've attempted to do something and they have the methods to back it up: Experienced coaching and continued investment in young talent. None of this piecemeal, stopgap rubbish that we get. A young prospect here or there is useless unless they are getting game time. We've seen Roma move way, way ahead of us with sustained investment in young first-team players over a period of less than 5 years. They used to be levels below Milan not long ago.

This is not a problem created by random errors of individuals - poor quality players are the merely the tip of this miserable iceberg. This is a structural problem and a cultural problem.

Good posts, Dante and Forza. I do agree with you essentially Dante, I didn't mean to suggest that I don't apportion significant blame to Mexes as well.