Is Messi statpadding against scrub goalkeepers?

Yea, he's top scorer of La Liga, top scorer of CL bla bla, but how many of these goals have been hattricks against Osasuna's, Levante's, Bate Barisov's, Leverkusen's scrub GKs?

Let's have a look in WC 2014, he scored in every match of the group stage against Bosnia's, Iran's and Nigeria's gk and then, as soon as he faced stronger goalkeepers, his goals stopped.
Was it because Argentina was worse than the others and he didn't get a single chance? No. for example he missed a 1on1 against Courtois in the dying minutes of Argentina-Belgium, which didn't really matter as Argentina was already winning 1-0, but then he missed the 1on1 against Neuer in the final that costed Argentina the WC title.

Is it a coincidence? No. Messi played six consecutive times against Courtois before that WC match and failed to score in each one of this (even missed a penalty), Messi played before against Neuer in 2013 CL and 2010 WC but did he score against him? No. And I can continue, did he score against Cech in the dozens of game he played against Chelsea? No, he even missed a penalty. Or for example in 2010 CL I remember that shot with Messi cutting from the right and curling it in the far post that goes in 9/10 of the times against scrub goalkeepers but that it didn't that time because Julio Cesar is good. Did I mention that he failed to score in the previous three matches against him?

The "best" goalkeeper he scored against is Casillas, which says it all really.

You didn't see true goalscorers like Ronaldo (the real one and the brazilian one), Shevchenko, Drogba, Inzaghi getting intimidated by strong goalkeepers. They statpadded against scrub goalkeepers, yes, but they didn't squander the same chances they score against scrub goalkeepers against strong goalkeepers, or having so many consecutive games where they were unable to score against strong goalkeepers as Messi.

TL;DR: Best player? Yes. Best goalscorer? No.

Bernd Leno isn't a scrub GK. He just had an awful defense in front.

(And what do you expect of field players who start a fight about who gets Messi's shirt - that they dare to tackle him? )

Katy Perry wrote:Yea, he's top scorer of La Liga, top scorer of CL bla bla, but how many of these goals have been hattricks against Osasuna's, Levante's, Bate Barisov's, Leverkusen's scrub GKs?

Let's have a look in WC 2014, he scored in every match of the group stage against Bosnia's, Iran's and Nigeria's gk and then, as soon as he faced stronger goalkeepers, his goals stopped.
Was it because Argentina was worse than the others and he didn't get a single chance? No. for example he missed a 1on1 against Courtois in the dying minutes of Argentina-Belgium, which didn't really matter as Argentina was already winning 1-0, but then he missed the 1on1 against Neuer in the final that costed Argentina the WC title.

Is it a coincidence? No. Messi played six consecutive times against Courtois before that WC match and failed to score in each one of this (even missed a penalty), Messi played before against Neuer in 2013 CL and 2010 WC but did he score against him? No. And I can continue, did he score against Cech in the dozens of game he played against Chelsea? No, he even missed a penalty. Or for example in 2010 CL I remember that shot with Messi cutting from the right and curling it in the far post that goes in 9/10 of the times against scrub goalkeepers but that it didn't that time because Julio Cesar is good. Did I mention that he failed to score in the previous three matches against him?

The "best" goalkeeper he scored against is Casillas, which says it all really.

You didn't see true goalscorers like Ronaldo (the real one and the brazilian one), Shevchenko, Drogba, Inzaghi getting intimidated by strong goalkeepers. They statpadded against scrub goalkeepers, yes, but they didn't squander the same chances they score against scrub goalkeepers against strong goalkeepers, or having so many consecutive games where they were unable to score against strong goalkeepers as Messi.

TL;DR: Best player? Yes. Best goalscorer? No.

2/10 for effort.

Messi scored hat trick against Casillas when Casillas was regarded as one of the GOAT.

Here's fun reading.  


(click to enlarge)

Difference is only 60% on the mortals.

Harmonica +1

I stopped reading when he called Nigeria's keeper a scrub. Best keeper in L1.

Harmonica

Harmonica wrote:Here's fun reading.  

Spoiler:

Difference is only 60% on the mortals.

I was only talking about goalscoring. A list with assists and where Sevilla and Valencia are rated higher than Atletico Madrid is irrelevant.

Well Atletico is one of Messi's favorite opponents in Spain, so there's that. And I think Sevilla and Valencia are actually rated higher in the time period. Also looking only goals makes no difference.

Yeah WTF, I can take an argument made towards supposedly bad defences, but half of those 'keepers are prime merchandise.

Goalkeepers you mentioned had great defence infront of them. And actually messi didnt even have a chance to shoot. None of them even saved a shoot from messi. If Chech had bosnia or nigeria defence infront of him messi would destroy him too

In WC final neuer didnt stop messi's shot. He just missed. Against Chelsea Messi didnt get any chance to shoot. Thanks to their defence. His penalty was not stopped by Chech. He hit the bar. But Iniesta scored.by your logic iniesta is better scorer than messi

Neuer and others conceded ton of goals by scrub players every week. By your logic whoever scored against Neuer is better scorer than Messi

I thought you were a wise football analysts i never thought its your first year at football

Actually Neuer doesn't concede by scrub players every week. In fact he doesn't concede most weeks.

Its because Bayern is best team in germany. And germany is the best team in the world. Barca keeper also doesnt concede every week.8 goals in 17 games. Maybe better stat than Neuer

Neuer only concedes once every 4 games in the Bundesliga. Not at all comparable

adamdar wrote:Its because Bayern is best team in germany. And germany is the best team in the world. Barca keeper also doesnt concede every week.8 goals in 17 games. Maybe better stat than Neuer

Nope. Neuer conceded half of that, actually

Katy Perry wrote:Yea, he's top scorer of La Liga, top scorer of CL bla bla, but how many of these goals have been hattricks against Osasuna's, Levante's, Bate Barisov's, Leverkusen's scrub GKs?

Let's have a look in WC 2014, he scored in every match of the group stage against Bosnia's, Iran's and Nigeria's gk and then, as soon as he faced stronger goalkeepers, his goals stopped.
Was it because Argentina was worse than the others and he didn't get a single chance? No. for example he missed a 1on1 against Courtois in the dying minutes of Argentina-Belgium, which didn't really matter as Argentina was already winning 1-0, but then he missed the 1on1 against Neuer in the final that costed Argentina the WC title.

Is it a coincidence? No. Messi played six consecutive times against Courtois before that WC match and failed to score in each one of this (even missed a penalty), Messi played before against Neuer in 2013 CL and 2010 WC but did he score against him? No. And I can continue, did he score against Cech in the dozens of game he played against Chelsea? No, he even missed a penalty. Or for example in 2010 CL I remember that shot with Messi cutting from the right and curling it in the far post that goes in 9/10 of the times against scrub goalkeepers but that it didn't that time because Julio Cesar is good. Did I mention that he failed to score in the previous three matches against him?

The "best" goalkeeper he scored against is Casillas, which says it all really.

You didn't see true goalscorers like Ronaldo (the real one and the brazilian one), Shevchenko, Drogba, Inzaghi getting intimidated by strong goalkeepers. They statpadded against scrub goalkeepers, yes, but they didn't squander the same chances they score against scrub goalkeepers against strong goalkeepers, or having so many consecutive games where they were unable to score against strong goalkeepers as Messi.

TL;DR: Best player? Yes. Best goalscorer? No.

(click to enlarge)

Why didn't harmonica post athletico into his chart

It's an old chart before Atleti were good again. In either case it would be even more slanted to Messi with Atleti in the chart, one of the teams he scores the most against.

All that chart shows me is that both ronaldo and messi are good goal scorers against big teams anyhow.. it's not like the difference is gigantic. And that's the thing, I don't see a difference.

The time that Harmonica puts in his stats and arguments

Can't recall Messi having a 1v1 in the final

El Gunner wrote:The time that Harmonica puts in his stats and arguments

Can't recall Messi having a 1v1 in the final

right after halftime he was more or less through on goal, albei not centrally.

adamdar wrote:Its because Bayern is best team in germany. And germany is the best team in the world. Barca keeper also doesnt concede every week.8 goals in 17 games. Maybe better stat than Neuer

http://www.goallegacy.net/t36463-return-of-the-top-defenses-of-the-top-5-leagues-2014-2015-stats

Its not fair. Barca conceded 2 own goals and one penalty even Neuer wouldnot stop that. So if take away two own goals and penalty its barca keeper 5 goals vs neuer 4 goals

I know next post will say neuer also conceded own goal and penalty If so neuer is best keeper and Bravo is second best in the world

Well, it always depends on what you are looking at. If you would look at save percentage in the league, then Neuer leads with an amazing number:



Picture stolen from http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2015/01/04/7626722/which-goalkeeper-has-the-best-save-record-in-europe-this (but they had the data from Opta, so it should be okay)