Paris: Charlie Hebdo shooting

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:09 am

On 7 January 2015, at approximately 11:30 CET (10:30 UTC), three masked gunmen armed with Kalashnikov rifles, a shotgun, and a rocket-propelled grenade launcher stormed the headquarters of the French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo in Paris.[5][6] They shot and killed 12 people, including staff of Charlie Hebdo and two French National police officers, and wounded 11 others.[7][8][9]

The gunmen entered the building and began shooting with automatic weapons, while shouting "Allahu Akbar".[10] Up to 50 shots were fired during the attack.[11] The two gunmen and a driver escaped in a car, and have been captured; one suspect has been killed as well. Police have identified the perpetrators as Saïd Kouachi, Chérif Kouachi and Hamyd Mourad.[3]

The incident is the deadliest mass murder to occur on French soil since 1989,[12][13][14] and the worst since the Paris massacre of 1961.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shooting

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Post by mr-r34 Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:15 am

It's a conspiracy against freedom of speech in GL. Laughing

Have they even come close to finding the guys?
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Post by DeletedUser#1 Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:25 am

Spare a thought for Marx/Christopher Hitchens.

these guys realized what a poison religion is before most others.

Hope I'll be alive to see the day all religions wiped off the world. Every single one of them.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:32 am

Islam and Europe: Perception and Reality

https://i.imgur.com/N6xl3jR.png
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Post by mr-r34 Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:39 am

Apparently they killed 1 and captured the other two.

At least we'll get answers.

https://news.vice.com/article/one-charlie-hebdo-massacre-gunmen-reportedly-killed-two-captured-north-of-paris?utm_source=vicenewsfb

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Post by Nishankly Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:44 am

What answers?

They'll say they did it for Islam.
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Post by rwo power Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:49 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Islam and Europe: Perception and Reality
Well, in my hometown there are 12% muslims. So the perception/reality thing probably should mention where the people were asked. I just checked - my neighbourtown Essen has a migrant percentage of 23% and Duisburg has even 28%.
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Post by DuringTheWar Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:15 am

Natalie Portman wrote:Spare a thought for Marx/Christopher Hitchens.

these guys realized what a poison religion is before most others.

Hope I'll be alive to see the day all religions wiped off the world. Every single one of them.


Are you suffering from a case of "feels" lad? Cool your jets, we have to let people believe what they want don't we? I know that's tough for a totalitarian, lol.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:14 am

Ahmed Merabet, Cop Killed In Paris Attacks, Was Muslim

Reminds me of the white supremacist who recently shot a synagogue in the US, killing 3 christians and no jews
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Post by Peccadillo Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:51 pm

Nishy wrote:What answers?

They'll say they did it for Islam.


I can kill a man and say I did it in the name of liverpool FC. Does that mean liverpool FC is evil.
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Post by Pedram Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:02 pm

Natalie Portman wrote:Spare a thought for Marx/Christopher Hitchens.

these guys realized what a poison religion is before most others.

Hope I'll be alive to see the day all religions wiped off the world. Every single one of them.

I'm with you on this one, i may not be alive to see that day but i'm sure it'll happen at some point.
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Post by rwo power Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:23 pm

@Peccadillo wrote:
Nishy wrote:What answers?
They'll say they did it for Islam.

I can kill a man and say I did it in the name of liverpool FC. Does that mean liverpool FC is evil.
Well, when the Hooligan problem in England went rampant in the 80es, the UEFA suspended the English clubs which led to them working on the problem.

When the terrorists claim they act in the name of the Islam, shouldn't the peaceful Muslims act and declare the criminals banned from their religion? But I guess that is the problem - in Christianity, the Pope is the boss of the Catholics at least and he can decree a church ban and throw people out via excommunication. Maybe the Muslims need to figure out some way to explicitely kick out these terrorists from their community?
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Post by sportsczy Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:55 pm

Let's not bring in the track record of Christianity...  the number of people killed in the name of Jesus Christ far far outweighs those for Islam.  Between the Crusades, the Inquistion and the witch hunts, 1.5 million people were killed in the name of Christianity...  and it was all sanctioned by the Pope.

Given that Muslim people were the primary victims of these, i don't think there's much sympathy going around. Muslims are upset that fanatics are creating chaos by falsely claiming that it's in the name of Islam... but many feel that payback is a biatch for the West in terms of dealing with the atrocities.

I'm not Muslim. But i get their point from a historical perspective. I just hope that people would stop seeking retribution for the past.
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Post by rwo power Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:03 pm

Well, the problem is that these terrorists claim they kill in the name of the Islam and Mohammed, which will likely lead to retributions against all Muslims.

The number of victims by Christianity is pretty irrelevant in that respect. (Mind you, I'm no member of any religion, and I'm not really fond of Christianity either.)
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Post by Peccadillo Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:14 pm

@rwo power wrote:
@Peccadillo wrote:
Nishy wrote:What answers?
They'll say they did it for Islam.

I can kill a man and say I did it in the name of liverpool FC. Does that mean liverpool FC is evil.
Well, when the Hooligan problem in England went rampant in the 80es, the UEFA suspended the English clubs which led to them working on the problem.

When the terrorists claim they act in the name of the Islam, shouldn't the peaceful Muslims act and declare the criminals banned from their religion? But I guess that is the problem - in Christianity, the Pope is the boss of the Catholics at least and he can decree a church ban and throw people out via excommunication. Maybe the Muslims need to figure out some way to explicitely kick out these terrorists from their community?


it has already been condemned by muslims worldwide including by al-azhar who are already one of, if not the most, prominent sunni institutions.. I dont know what more you expect..

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Post by S Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:26 pm

Those cartoons published by Charlie Hebdo wasnt particularly smart was it ?
Forget extremists,religious jokes in general arent well received by people especially in Asian countries.Religion is a sensitive issue and we're talking about a faith followed by over 3 billion people the world over and which they consider it as a passion.
Dont tell me Muslims in general werent irked when they released those cartoons mocking the prophet let alone these terrorist groups.
I'm sure all Muslims condemn these barbaric attacks.Only narrow minded Muslims wouldnt.Ultimately its Muslim civilians themselves that will be subject to discrimination and hatred probably across entire Europe.
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Post by Shed Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:35 pm

@S wrote:Those cartoons published by Charlie Hebdo wasnt particularly smart was it ?
Forget extremists,religious jokes in general arent well received by people especially in Asian countries.Religion is a sensitive issue and we're talking about a faith followed by over 3 billion people the world over and which they consider it as a passion.
Dont tell me Muslims in general werent irked when they released those cartoons mocking the prophet let alone these terrorist groups.
-

A person doesn't have the right not to be offended. Freedoms of speech and expression aren't conditional on no one's feelings being hurt. If I read something I don't agree with, see a piece of comedy that satirises an aspect about myself or something that I like, or encounter a critique or a rebuke of something important to me, I....put it down and read something else. Not commit a mass murder against its purveyors.

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Post by Peccadillo Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:46 pm

@sportsczy wrote:Let's not bring in the track record of Christianity...  the number of people killed in the name of Jesus Christ far far outweighs those for Islam.  Between the Crusades, the Inquistion and the witch hunts, 1.5 million people were killed in the name of Christianity...  and it was all sanctioned by the Pope.

Given that Muslim people were the primary victims of these, i don't think there's much sympathy going around. Muslims are upset that fanatics are creating chaos by falsely claiming that it's in the name of Islam... but many feel that payback is a biatch for the West in terms of dealing with the atrocities.

I'm not Muslim. But i get their point from a historical perspective. I just hope that people would stop seeking retribution for the past.


there are blurred lines in theocratic states/empires in terms of what is done in the name of religion and what is done in the name of power. The theocratic nature of empires in history were often not driven by religion at all.

Islam is extremely complex and diverse. In a religion of reportedly 2 billion, one would expect problems. Especially when most come from developing countries, which by the way, didn't always used to be the case.
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Post by S Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:55 pm

@Shed wrote:
@S wrote:Those cartoons published by Charlie Hebdo wasnt particularly smart was it ?
Forget extremists,religious jokes in general arent well received by people especially in Asian countries.Religion is a sensitive issue and we're talking about a faith followed by over 3 billion people the world over and which they consider it as a passion.
Dont tell me Muslims in general werent irked when they released those cartoons mocking the prophet let alone these terrorist groups.
-

A person doesn't have the right not to be offended. Freedoms of speech and expression aren't conditional on no one's feelings being hurt. If I read something I don't agree with, see a piece of comedy that satirises an aspect about myself or something that I like, or encounter a critique or a rebuke of something important to me, I....put it down and read something else. Not commit a mass murder against its purveyors.



But people do get offended especially when you're mocking god in this case.Its just not in the culture of people in certain countries to be able to take a joke.In India for example,im sure it would've sparked an outrage if cartoons mocking Hindu religion were published.
You dont see racist jokes being particularly well received either do you ?
Its not critique against just one person but millions upon millions who practice a faith and find peace in that.
We have to learn to differentiate between a bunch of *bleep* up idiots killing people in the name of god and those millions upon millions who dont intend to harm anybody but rather worship god for the sake of their own health and living.
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Post by sportsczy Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:16 pm

well that's too bad S...  freedom means freedom.  It may cause people to get irked; but they need to deal with it.  It's the foundation of western civilization to have the right to say whatever you want within the confines of the law.  There is no censorship.

I guarantee you that there is going to be a response... and knowing the West, they will look to make the culprits pay 100000x the price.  

If you're offended, respond in kind.  Make satires about them as well.  But there is no justification for resorting to violence.

Everyone... and I mean EVERYONE... is entitled to express their opinion peacefully regardless of how offensive or distasteful that opinion may seem.
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Post by S Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:31 pm

You talk about freedom of speech and no censorship.

Then tell me why is there an anti-racism code ?
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Post by Nishankly Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:35 pm

@S wrote:Those cartoons published by Charlie Hebdo wasnt particularly smart was it ?
Forget extremists,religious jokes in general arent well received by people especially in Asian countries.Religion is a sensitive issue and we're talking about a faith followed by over 3 billion people the world over and which they consider it as a passion.
Dont tell me Muslims in general werent irked when they released those cartoons mocking the prophet let alone these terrorist groups.
I'm sure all Muslims condemn these barbaric attacks.Only narrow minded Muslims wouldnt.Ultimately its Muslim civilians themselves that will be subject to discrimination and hatred probably across entire Europe.


This.
You are stupid if you think you can make jokes about the Prophet and get away with it, Whichever country and whatever *bleep* rights you have.

They should have been better prepared for this, The extremists have killed for far less than this. Shoot me for saying this but its the truth, Asian countries would never make jokes about Islam because its a very sensitive religion and we are not that stupid.


---

Also did i read no censorship Laughing
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Post by VivaStPauli Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:40 pm

@sportsczy wrote:well that's too bad S...  freedom means freedom.  It may cause people to get irked; but they need to deal with it.  It's the foundation of western civilization to have the right to say whatever you want within the confines of the law.  There is no censorship.

I guarantee you that there is going to be a response... and knowing the West, they will look to make the culprits pay 100000x the price.  

If you're offended, respond in kind.  Make satires about them as well.  But there is no justification for resorting to violence.

Everyone... and I mean EVERYONE... is entitled to express their opinion peacefully regardless of how offensive or distasteful that opinion may seem.


I agree with this 100%.
Also, I do hope the French catch the guys quickly, because if they go on a revenge spree like the US did in Afghanistan and Iraq... Well, the French ain't all cuddly and nice like the Americans are. Historically, when the French go to war, they go to war hard. Let's all hope they don't.

In the end I'm 90% certain that this will hurt French muslims more than anyone involved.
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Post by sportsczy Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:18 pm

don't have the resources to go to war. France is bankrupt right now... war is expensive.
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Post by Shed Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:22 pm

@S wrote:
@Shed wrote:
@S wrote:Those cartoons published by Charlie Hebdo wasnt particularly smart was it ?
Forget extremists,religious jokes in general arent well received by people especially in Asian countries.Religion is a sensitive issue and we're talking about a faith followed by over 3 billion people the world over and which they consider it as a passion.
Dont tell me Muslims in general werent irked when they released those cartoons mocking the prophet let alone these terrorist groups.
-

A person doesn't have the right not to be offended. Freedoms of speech and expression aren't conditional on no one's feelings being hurt. If I read something I don't agree with, see a piece of comedy that satirises an aspect about myself or something that I like, or encounter a critique or a rebuke of something important to me, I....put it down and read something else. Not commit a mass murder against its purveyors.



But people do get offended especially when you're mocking god in this case.Its just not in the culture of people in certain countries to be able to take a joke.In India for example,im sure it would've sparked an outrage if cartoons mocking Hindu religion were published.
You dont see racist jokes being particularly well received either do you ?
Its not critique against just one person but millions upon millions who practice a faith and find peace in that.
We have to learn to differentiate between a bunch of *bleep* up idiots killing people in the name of god and those millions upon millions who dont intend to harm anybody but rather worship god for the sake of their own health and living.


I support the right of individuals to say and write what they want, regardless of whether or not I agree with its content. You telling people to not publish or say potentially controversial or offensive things if they don't want to precipitate a violent, potentially fatal reaction against themselves, is the equivalent of telling a woman she shouldn't wear a short skirt or a low-cut top if she doesn't want to get raped, or that people shouldn't buy and own nice things if they don't want to get robbed, or that a person shouldn't drive a nice car if they don't want to be carjacked, or that parents shouldn't let their children play outside if they don't want them to get kidnapped, and on and on and on.
-

And let's not pretend this is some wanton attack on 2 billion 'peaceful' people. The only reason the cartoon had reason to be published in the first place is because for the people it's targeted at (the insecure, touchy, validation-needy fundamentalists), the religion has nothing to do with peace and absolutely everything to do with control. Had the extent of Islam been a few billion people practising their ideology, kneeling down on a rug and praying towards Mecca everyday and so forth, what reason would anyone have to take issue with it in the first place? It's because it's not. For the very vocal, very violent minority, it's about intimidation and coercion and compulsory compliance. And those on the end of it will not retreat an inch to placate them.


When you begin suggesting that the good start moderating or limiting their lawful behaviour for the sake or at the behest of the evil, you've got things all wrong.

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