Re: The Official Balon d'Or 2014 Thread

[Harmonica]

Again, random error has nothing to do with this ranking, players win top scorer title, whether it's a 1 goal difference, or a 10 goal difference.

Now if we are to judge who is the better player sure, although the sample size is too small, given the correctness of statistics to do so. But then again we can't just stop there as pointed above, and so in reality what is pointless, is the margin of error.

[Hapless_Hans]

LOOOOOOOL

[futbol]

But you post these stats in the Ballon d'Or thread, not in the top scorer, top assister or stats thread. Ballon d'Or is handed out to the best player. 3 goal difference in goals + assists can't lead to a definitive ranking in who the best player is. Obviously the idea in itself that goals + assists = Ballon d'Or I disagree with anyway but I'm trying to argue within your own logic that this is a valid way of ranking Ballon d'Or candidates.

Even if you ignore random error at least the goals have to have a weight to it. Copa del Rey goals aren't equal to CL final or Clasico goals obviously. Opening goals aren't equal to the 4th and 5th goals in a 5-0 trashing. Etc. Otherwise I don't know why pure goals + assists stats are being discussed in the context of Ballon d'Or.

The only thing I've learned from this thread is that Ronaldo's goalscoring has been overhyped based on his 3 hattricks in 4 games at the beginning of the season and he's actually still 37 goals short of Messi's 2012 tally of 91 goals in a calendar year despite scoring like a maniac this season.

[Harmonica]

Only thing Cronaldo had last year going for him, was the overall output, there's no other rational reason, he didn't win any individual or team trophies.

So that's what I'm illustrating this year, and showcasing how media and politics change the portray of the players and rules of the competition. And adjust every time, when money is involved.

[Bankz]

LOOOOOOOOOOL..didn't know the situation was this bad with hamonica. I have officially seen it all in my short time on GL..

[Valkyrja]

It's not fair to compare Benzema's assists stats with Ronaldo's

[chad4401]

harmonica i think the same can be said for messi, and how the media tries to portray him, has some humble little choir boy

I do agree otherwise about cr second bdo win, he wasn't playing great, matter a fact he was kinda awful most times, but he kept scoring=good performances, but the real thing that got him the award, imo was blatter's comments, if he shuts up messi win another bdo, we all know how image and fairness, goes in the media

[Harmonica]

harmonica i think the same can be said for messi, and how the media tries to portray him, has some humble little choir boy

I do agree otherwise about cr second bdo win, he wasn't playing great, matter a fact he was kinda awful most times, but he kept scoring=good performances, but the real thing that got him the award, imo was blatter's comments, if he shuts up messi win another bdo, we all know how image and fairness, goes in the media

What kind of media have you been reading? I see Messi having a "coke" every day, if you read the media that is.

[chad4401]

come on its just like blatter said "cr is conceited and messi is a nice humble lad", that been the stereotype images, presented by the media for a long time, but now messi has started expression himself, a lot more on the pitch(yelling at teammates) and off it(webcams and tax evasions), his image in media has become more grounded

[Curtinho]

http://messivsronaldo.net/calendar-year.php

Ronaldo: 54 goals, 17 assists in 53 apps (directly a part of 71 goals).
Messi: 49 goals, 21 assists in 60 apps (directly a part of 70 goals).

Ronaldo now officially ahead in total goals contributed while playing in 7 less games. Better stats, actual trophies, and more goals. How can he lose?

[Bankz]

Hmmmmm, Indeed.

[chad4401]

harmonica is using wide assists too

[Freeza]

Wide assists

The assist stat is already suffering from influx, and then some people are expanding it Just look at the assist Suarez got for Neymar's goal against us.. Shouldn't even be an assist.

[chad4401]

deflected shots etc, that lead to a goal anyway, stuff like that

[Freeza]

deflected shots etc, that lead to a goal anyway, stuff like that

I read Harmonicas post last page, it's just an awful thing to count as an assist. Being rewarded an assist for missing a shot

[zigra]

More interesting than wide assists would be secondary assis. Btw I'm actually serious about that..

Anyway who cares. I have a glorious idea that is create a second trophy that's called Balon d'or STATS.

And give it to whoever you want as you just have to adjust the stats the right way to get another winner

[Harmonica]

http://messivsronaldo.net/calendar-year.php

Ronaldo: 54 goals, 17 assists in 53 apps (directly a part of 71 goals).
Messi: 49 goals, 21 assists in 60 apps (directly a part of 70 goals).

Ronaldo now officially ahead in total goals contributed while playing in 7 less games. Better stats, actual trophies, and more goals. How can he lose?

Last year Ballon d'Or

Stats

Messi 1.64 GA/90min
Cronaldo 1.57 GA/90min

Trophies

Messi La Liga, Liga best player, European Golden Shoe, Supercup
Cronaldo -

Ballon d'Or winner, Cronaldo.

So as pointed previously rate doesn't matter, at all. Cronaldo only had better overall output, which was the only rational thing going for him.

At this point Messi leads the overall output this year, so he should win the Ballon d'Or based on that fact.

2014 (23.11) in official games

Messi 49 (7pen) goals, 25 assists = directly part of 74 goals
Cronaldo 54 (11pen) goals, 17 assists = directly part of 71 goals

Benzema 32 (1pen) goals, 21 assists = directly part of 53 goals

Müller 29 (6pen) goals, 14 assists = directly part of 43 goals
Neymar 32 (0pen) goals, 10 assists = directly part of 42 goals
Bale 22 (0pen) goals, 19 assists = directly part of 41 goals

Zlatan 28 (4pen) goals, 11 assists = directly part of 39 goals
James 21 (3pen) goals, 18 assists = directly part of 39 goals
Di Maria 10 (0pen) goals, 28 assists = directly part of 38 goals
Götze 24 (0pen) goals, 13 assists = directly part of 37 goals
Robben 21 (3pen) goals, 16 assists = directly part of 37 goals
Suarez 17 (0pen) goals, 19 assists = directly part of 36 goals (not shortlisted)


Costa 26 (2pen) goals, 3 assists = directly part of 29 goals
Toure 17 (5pen) goals, 9 assists = directly part of 26 goals
Hazard 14 (7pen) goals, 10 assists = directly part of 24 goals
Pobga 11 (0pen) goals, 12 assists = directly part of 23 goals

Kroos 8 (0pen) goals, 11 assists = directly part of 19 goals
Iniesta 3 (0pen) goals, 11 assists = directly part of 14 goals
Schweinsteiger 6 (0pen) goals, 5 assists = directly part of 11 goals

Defenders

Lahm
Mascherano
Ramos

Goalies

Neuer

[Freeza]

Just counted Ronaldo's assist from Transfermarkt

I don't know how you count your assist Harmonica, but Ronaldo has more than 17 assists when you use Transfermarkt. So if you use wide assist, atleast be consistent.

Ronaldo has 54 goals 22 assists = 76 (56 and 23 if counting friendlies from NT).

[Harmonica]

Just counted Ronaldo's assist from Transfermarkt

I don't know how you count your assist Harmonica, but Ronaldo has more than 17 assists when you use Transfermarkt. So if you use wide assist, atleast be consistent.

Ronaldo has 54 goals 22 assists = 76 (56 and 23 if counting friendlies from NT).

Did you remove the assists to own penalty goal anomaly?

[Freeza]

Just counted Ronaldo's assist from Transfermarkt

I don't know how you count your assist Harmonica, but Ronaldo has more than 17 assists when you use Transfermarkt. So if you use wide assist, atleast be consistent.

Ronaldo has 54 goals 22 assists = 76  (56 and 23 if counting friendlies from NT).

Did you remove the assists to own penalty goal anomaly?

Nope, but shouldn't matter with that bs stat anyway.
You can't really use the only place they use that stat, and then be selective about it, no matter how it may be weird to assist your own goal.

[Harmonica]

Just counted Ronaldo's assist from Transfermarkt

I don't know how you count your assist Harmonica, but Ronaldo has more than 17 assists when you use Transfermarkt. So if you use wide assist, atleast be consistent.

Ronaldo has 54 goals 22 assists = 76  (56 and 23 if counting friendlies from NT).

Did you remove the assists to own penalty goal anomaly?

Nope, but shouldn't matter with that bs stat anyway.

Lmao, so you counted them to show how Cronaldo were better, but when we realized your miscalculation, which change ranking, they are bs?

These are the Cronaldo sweat hoarders of today.

[Freeza]

Did you remove the assists to own penalty goal anomaly?

Nope, but shouldn't matter with that bs stat anyway.

Lmao, so you counted them to show how Cronaldo were better, but when we realized your miscalculation, which change ranking, they are bs?

These are the Cronaldo sweat hoarders of today.

Yeah, only care about stats. That can be shown by my choices of favourite players: Varane, Isco and Bendtner. Statwhores all of them.

Don't understand how that's different than you picking Transfer markt, and twisting their stat only because it's the only way Messi is above Ronaldo.

[Harmonica]

Nope, but shouldn't matter with that bs stat anyway.

Lmao, so you counted them to show how Cronaldo were better, but when we realized your miscalculation, which change ranking, they are bs?

These are the Cronaldo sweat hoarders of today.

Yeah, only care about stats. That can be shown by my choices of favourite players: Varane, Isco and Bendtner. Statwhores all of them.

Don't understand how that's different than you picking Transfer markt, and twisting their stat only because it's the only way Messi is above Ronaldo.

Then leave statistics to me, and stick with the illusions.

You understand that wider rule assists portray better overall participation on goals?

[Pip]

These are Ronaldo's assists so far this year, using the 'wide assist' definition.

Real Madrid
1) Benzema 1-0 vs Schalke 04
2) Benzema 4-0 vs Schalke 04
3) Marcelo 3-1 vs Atlético de Madrid
4) Morata 5-0 vs Real Betis
5) Jesé 1-1 vs Athletic Club
6) Marcelo 2-0 vs Levante
7) Carvajal 2-0 vs Rayo Vallecano
8) Ramos 1-1 vs Valencia
9) Jesé 2-0 vs Osasuna
10) Benzema 5-1 vs FC Basel
11) Benzema 4-0 vs Athletic Club
12) Benzema 3-0 vs Granada
13) James 4-0 vs Granada
14) Kroos 3-1 vs Rayo Vallecano
15) Benzema 4-1 vs Rayo Vallecano
16) James 1-0 vs Eibar

Portugal
17) Edinho 4-1 vs Cameroon
18) Varela 2-2 vs USA

Which assist did you not count, Harmonica?

[Harmonica]

These are Ronaldo's assists so far this year, using the 'wide assist' definition.

Real Madrid
1) Benzema 1-0 vs Schalke 04
2) Benzema 4-0 vs Schalke 04
3) Marcelo 3-1 vs Atlético de Madrid
4) Morata 5-0 vs Real Betis
5) Jesé 1-1 vs Athletic Club
6) Marcelo 2-0 vs Levante
7) Carvajal 2-0 vs Rayo Vallecano
Ramos 1-1 vs Valencia
9) Jesé 2-0 vs Osasuna
10) Benzema 5-1 vs FC Basel
11) Benzema 4-0 vs Athletic Club
12) Benzema 3-0 vs Granada
13) James 4-0 vs Granada
14) Kroos 3-1 vs Rayo Vallecano
15) Benzema 4-1 vs Rayo Vallecano
16) James 1-0 vs Eibar

Portugal
17) Edinho 4-1 vs Cameroon
18) Varela 2-2 vs USA

Which assist did you not count, Harmonica?

I missed that Bilbao one, thanks for the correction. So as it is:

2014 (23.11) in official games

Messi 49 (7pen) goals, 25 assists = directly part of 74 goals
Cronaldo 54 (11pen) goals, 18 assists = directly part of 72 goals

Benzema 32 (1pen) goals, 21 assists = directly part of 53 goals

Müller 29 (6pen) goals, 14 assists = directly part of 43 goals
Neymar 32 (0pen) goals, 10 assists = directly part of 42 goals
Bale 22 (0pen) goals, 19 assists = directly part of 41 goals

Zlatan 28 (4pen) goals, 11 assists = directly part of 39 goals
James 21 (3pen) goals, 18 assists = directly part of 39 goals
Di Maria 10 (0pen) goals, 28 assists = directly part of 38 goals
Götze 24 (0pen) goals, 13 assists = directly part of 37 goals
Robben 21 (3pen) goals, 16 assists = directly part of 37 goals
Suarez 17 (0pen) goals, 19 assists = directly part of 36 goals (not shortlisted)

Costa 26 (2pen) goals, 3 assists = directly part of 29 goals
Toure 17 (5pen) goals, 9 assists = directly part of 26 goals
Hazard 14 (7pen) goals, 10 assists = directly part of 24 goals
Pobga 11 (0pen) goals, 12 assists = directly part of 23 goals

Kroos 8 (0pen) goals, 11 assists = directly part of 19 goals
Iniesta 3 (0pen) goals, 11 assists = directly part of 14 goals
Schweinsteiger 6 (0pen) goals, 5 assists = directly part of 11 goals

Defenders

Lahm
Mascherano
Ramos

Goalies

Neuer

[Harmonica]

Rakitic: "Ronaldo won Ballon d'Or after hat-trick in play-off, Messi's hat-trick could decide now? Many can win, but Messi is unique."

Too bad voting was extended last year for that game, and wasn't extended this year for this game.

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