Is England losing its identity while trying to adopt a continental style?

Well, I guess the clubs know that it wouldn't go well with the fans and thus they do not really consider it in the first place. Oh, and they could invest, just don't get the majority.

Gil wrote:
Anyway, the point I'm getting at is Germany's World Cup winning players (Kroos, Schweinsteiger, Khedira, Schurrle etc) were hardly superior the crop of Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes, Rooney etc in terms of natural ability.

Collectively speaking is this really a given?

Not saying any of those German players are better individually but is it really so far fetched to say that the current crop of Germans are a more fundamentally polished group? I'm talking everything btw, touch, physicality, tactical discipline, creativity.

Individually the English lads have nothing to envy but they don't seem to compliment each other at all on paper.

The Germans on the other hand seem to each have a defined skill set which they maximize when they play together.

England's problem fro me at least is that they have never had a famous type of role players they could form a core around. They just produce the same type of players and try to fit them in later. It's just Centerback, midfielder, striker in England's case and it never seems to be anymore nuanced than that. They've never had sweepers or registas or shuttlers or wingbacks or trequartistas.

I'm not saying they should try to produce registas but rather they should look to producing a type of role player that is unique to them.

Blue wrote:England needs revamp their leagues and follow Spain and German model. English clubs need to have a B team in lower divisions.

What does that mean?

Well, in Germany, for example Schalke has their U23 team in the Regionalliga West (4th division), Bayern II are in the Regionalliga Bayern (4th division), and Dortmund has theirs in the 3rd Liga.

The second teams of the clubs have to be at least two divisions lower than the senior team and they are allowed to play only three players older than 23 years of age (usually senior players recovering from injuries).

So the youngsters of a Bundesliga club who don't play in the U17 or U19 teams in their respective youth leagues are able to play competitive matches in the 3rd to 5th division of the seniors (depending on where the U23 is playing).

Art Morte wrote:

Blue wrote:England needs revamp their leagues and follow Spain and German model. English clubs need to have a B team in lower divisions.

What does that mean?

As Rwo Power explained.

So basically the old tired argument over introducing B teams to English leagues.

Zealous wrote:

Gil wrote:
Anyway, the point I'm getting at is Germany's World Cup winning players (Kroos, Schweinsteiger, Khedira, Schurrle etc) were hardly superior the crop of Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes, Rooney etc in terms of natural ability.

Collectively speaking is this really a given?

Not saying any of those German players are better individually but is it really so far fetched to say that the current crop of Germans are a more fundamentally polished group?  I'm talking everything btw, touch, physicality, tactical discipline, creativity.

Individually the English lads have nothing to envy but they don't seem to compliment each other at all on paper.

The Germans on the other hand seem to each have a defined skill set which they maximize when they play together.

England's problem fro me at least is that they have never had a famous type of role players they could form a core around. They just produce the same type of players and try to fit them in later. It's just Centerback, midfielder, striker in England's case and it never seems to be anymore nuanced than that. They've never had sweepers or registas or shuttlers or wingbacks or trequartistas.

I'm not saying they should try to produce registas but rather they should look to producing a type of role player that is unique to them.

Agree.

On the face of it, there isnt much difference but take a closer look and I think there is a difference.

Which England player makes the type of movements Muller makes? Which England striker scores as consistently as Klose did?

They have a player similar but superior to Kroos in Scholes and what do they do? Play Gerrard and Lampard together in the middle..genuis...Both great players but which of them holds the position, which of them are always available for the pass? Both of them are number 8's, they want to run and get into goalscoring positions...but what about the midfield? Compare how Bastia has changed himself for the better compared to Lampard and Gerrard. England were desperate for one of them to do what Basti did and start understanding positional responsibility. Both have fair reasons not to, both were far superior than Basti ever was going forward..but this is the difference in the teams.

I thought this question was settled a decade ago?

I disagree that you pigeon-hole kids to a specific position at a very young age and emphasize the skills required for it. It doesn't work because kids change physically and mentally quickly and drastically.

I can speak for the French youth system because i was a part of it. I only trained specifically to be a defender when i turned 13. Before that, i did all the drills... for every position. When games came around, they would play us in different roles too. I only played CB exclusively for my last 2 years.

It's the same today btw.

For example, Kurzawa the LB for Monaco and France U23 was actually made into a CF from ages 13-15. Physically though, he didn't fit the CF role and struggled with strength as he got older. They then made him a fullback and he transitioned quickly because he had done the drills not too long ago.

There are 3 keys for me in training kids: Technique, discipline and freedom. You have to let kids develop naturally without forcing things. They will naturally steer towards a certain position or two as they grow older.

That happens all the time as far as I know, that is the way it should be and the way it generally does go.

I think what Zeal refers to is more advanced level coaching, once they reach 18 and over and you start learning on a different level.

If anything, all England is doing is trying to lose its identity as a shit footballing nation by developing more technical players who can play a modern style, which is what every country should be doing, always. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Oh ok... 18 is even too late imo. Even in my day (a long time ago), you started specializing starting at 13-14 and you were expected to be settled into a final role/area by the time you reached 15 (16 at the latest).

It's not that hard to change direction for youth academies btw... just throw money at guys managing the Barca and Ajax academies for example. They'd come. But you have to be patient because it takes a min of 10 years to start really developing enough critical mass of kids under the new philosophy... the change is quick, but the results come slowly.

Not having a good second division is a catastrophy... that's the big issue imo.  The EPL is too competitive to risk playing so many kids...  but the dropoff to the second division is too steep so the kids aren't getting developed properly there.

When Serie A was in its prime in the 90s, Serie B was fantastic too.  It was just as tactical and very competitive.  Adelante in Spain and Ligue 2 in France are insanely competitive now too...

I don't watch lower divisions in the UK.  But i guess the managing is poor mostly and/or the tactics unsophisticated... am i wrong?