The identity crisis

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Post by Adit Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:50 am

I have seen many posters here especially US citizen displaying severe identity crisis. They love their country of origin more then US of A . They would infact support the country of origin if there was a major conflict between the parent and host country.

Why did they even leave the country of origin in the first place if you loved it so much more than current one?

Who will you support in a conflict, the new country or the original one?.

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Post by El Gunner Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:03 am

im not in the demographic you just mentioned, but i would say usually why people leave for the US is to have "a better life" economically - better access, more resources, etc etc.

But im sure the demographic will give you more varied answers
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:20 am

I would be lying to you If I said I didn't ask myself the same question more than once.

Here's how I would behave if I were them.

1. If I'm living in a foreign country just for work, I would respect their culture, their way of life, and would express a sense of gratitude to them for letting me work/study, develop and grow as human being.

2. If I ever decide to apply for a citizenship to live and work there permanently, I have to give them my absolute loyalty. Cause you're not just working there anymore, this country has accepted to welcome you as one of theirs and you have to honor that.

If you're having problems cutting the cords with the past, harboring an immense amount of hatred and envy towards a certain group of people who happen to be the majority of that specific country, and you constantly find yourself prioritizing the interest of your country of origin over your new one, then you probably shouldn't apply for a citizenship.

If you were born there, but you're ethnically from another country, you shouldn't waste your time wondering where you belong. You belong in the country in which you were born and it must have your absolute loyalty.

The worst kind of human you can be is when you are a hypocrite, hateful and ungrateful. You've lived your entire life in that country, enjoyed their resources and all the perks that come with it for being a citizen, just like you parents and their parents before them, and yet for some reason you still side with "your own" no matter what and your country of origin always seems to have your respect and undivided loyalty over the new one. If you're like that, then you really are the worst kind of human being you can be.
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Post by Blue Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:10 pm

The only thing I am loyal to is principal and values. Or is something I strive for over any tribal entity.
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Post by rincon Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:16 pm

Whatever your ethnicity, or origin, or (lack of) immigration, asking for absolute loyalty to a country is the real crisis.
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Post by McLewis Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:01 pm

I mean our founding fathers, wealthy slaveowners many of them, decided to frame their reason for rebelling against the British crown as "Freedom from slavery"......while they literally owned people and excluded them as citizens of this new nation. They systematically destroyed entire native populations on this continent under that banner as well.

America's identity crisis started in the mid-18th century and has only gotten worse. What we're seeing today is absolutely not new.
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Post by Young Kaz Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:09 pm

The identity crisis Magic-johnson-eating-popcorn


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Post by CBarca Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:53 pm

You just @ing Betty or what?

As far as I know Betty and BC are the only Americans here who don't also have the USA as their "country of origin". And BC doesn't talk about Argentina much. I could be forgetting someone though. I certainly won't speak to McLewis's ideas on this, either.

But I'm a white ass boy from the Midwest whose bohemian roots are long gone. I'm as American as they come Proud
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Post by Unique Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:30 pm

The Demon of Carthage wrote:I would be lying to you If I said I didn't ask myself the same question more than once.

Here's how I would behave if I were them.

1. If I'm living in a foreign country just for work, I would respect their culture, their way of life, and would express a sense of gratitude to them for letting me work/study, develop and grow as human being.

2. If I ever decide to apply for a citizenship to live and work there permanently, I have to give them my absolute loyalty. Cause you're not just working there anymore, this country has accepted to welcome you as one of theirs and you have to honor that.

If you're having problems cutting the cords with the past, harboring an immense amount of hatred and envy towards a certain group of people who happen to be the majority of that specific country, and you constantly find yourself prioritizing the interest of your country of origin over your new one, then you probably shouldn't apply for a citizenship.

If you were born there, but you're ethnically from another country, you shouldn't waste your time wondering where you belong. You belong in the country in which you were born and it must have your absolute loyalty.

The worst kind of human you can be is when you are a hypocrite, hateful and ungrateful. You've lived your entire life in that country, enjoyed their resources and all the perks that come with it for being a citizen, just like you parents and their parents before them, and yet for some reason you still side with "your own" no matter what and your country of origin always seems to have your respect and undivided loyalty over the new one. If you're like that, then you really are the worst kind of human being you can be.
i cant remember how many times we have had total agreement on things but that post could have been typed by the fingers of the great UNIQUE. :bow: :bow:
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:51 pm

CBarca wrote:You just @ing Betty or what?

As far as I know Betty and BC are the only Americans here who don't also have the USA as their "country of origin". And BC doesn't talk about Argentina much. I could be forgetting someone though. I certainly won't speak to McLewis's ideas on this, either.

But I'm a white ass boy from the Midwest whose bohemian roots are long gone. I'm as American as they come Proud

Ffs I'm not American
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Post by rincon Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:03 pm

And isn't Betty's country of origin the US? I thought he was from Georgia.
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Post by Unique Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:04 pm

Adit wrote:I have seen many posters here especially US citizen displaying severe identity crisis. They love their country of origin more then US of A . They would infact support the country of origin if there was a major conflict between the parent and host country.

Why did they even leave the country of origin in the first place if you loved it so much more than current one?

Who will you support in a conflict, the new country or the original one?.

they go to a country they dont like that is full of racists as they say they moan about how things are in that country but it pays well so they stay. i have zero respect for people like that. they are whats known as a complete sell out.
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Post by Adit Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:10 pm

This thread is not limited to USA . It also applies to fake ass nations such as new Zealand , australia, Argentina etc.

Literally all the nations that doesn't feel any civilization connection with itself.
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Post by Young Kaz Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:13 pm

Adit wrote:This thread is not limited to USA . It also applies to fake ass nations such as new Zealand , australia, Argentina etc.

Literally all the nations that doesn't feel any civilization connection with itself.


What makes Argentina uncivilized?

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Post by Adit Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:17 pm

Young Kaz wrote:
Adit wrote:This thread is not limited to USA . It also applies to fake ass nations such as new Zealand , australia, Argentina etc.

Literally all the nations that doesn't feel any civilization connection with itself.



What makes Argentina uncivilized?


The current population doesn't have much civilizational connection with the land. It is fairly new and the concept of nation for argentina is not based on much civilizational values.

Rather geographical convenience made it possible.
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Post by Adit Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:20 pm

El Gunner wrote:im not in the demographic you just mentioned, but i would say usually why people leave for the US is to have "a better life" economically - better access, more resources, etc etc.

But im sure the demographic will give you more varied answers


So what you are implying is that the moment USA go broke they would all jump ship like rats since they don't have much connections with the land other than money?
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:24 pm

Adit wrote:
Young Kaz wrote:
Adit wrote:This thread is not limited to USA . It also applies to fake ass nations such as new Zealand , australia, Argentina etc.

Literally all the nations that doesn't feel any civilization connection with itself.



What makes Argentina uncivilized?


The current population doesn't have much civilizational connection with the land. It is fairly new and the concept of nation for argentina is not based on much civilizational values.

Rather geographical convenience made it possible.


define "civilizational connection with the land"

I can assure you this is 100% false for Argentina: " They love their country of origin more then US of A . They would infact support the country of origin if there was a major conflict between the parent and host country."

It's also largely false for the US, Betty aside
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Post by rincon Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:30 pm

It's hard to disagree more with a topic than this. Argentines are the most patriotic people in the west that I can think of.

The whole stereotype is that they are disliked in south america for the arrogance they carry about being Argentine.
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Post by Unique Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:32 pm

Adit wrote:
El Gunner wrote:im not in the demographic you just mentioned, but i would say usually why people leave for the US is to have "a better life" economically - better access, more resources, etc etc.

But im sure the demographic will give you more varied answers


So what you are implying is that the moment USA go broke they would all jump ship like rats since they don't have much connections with the land other than money?
yes. Thumbs up
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Post by Adit Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:33 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Adit wrote:
Young Kaz wrote:


What makes Argentina uncivilized?


The current population doesn't have much civilizational connection with the land. It is fairly new and the concept of nation for argentina is not based on much civilizational values.

Rather geographical convenience made it possible.


define "civilizational connection with the land"

I can assure you this is 100% false for Argentina: " They love their country of origin more then US of A . They would infact support the country of origin if there was a major conflict between the parent and host country."

It's also largely false for the US, Betty aside



The civilizational connection Argentina has with is Europe. The people living there are immigrants and their generations who brought european civilization there.

The original civilization of the land is long gone. Can we say Argentina is a civilizational state?
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Post by CBarca Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:57 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
CBarca wrote:You just @ing Betty or what?

As far as I know Betty and BC are the only Americans here who don't also have the USA as their "country of origin". And BC doesn't talk about Argentina much. I could be forgetting someone though. I certainly won't speak to McLewis's ideas on this, either.

But I'm a white ass boy from the Midwest whose bohemian roots are long gone. I'm as American as they come Proud

Ffs I'm not American


My bad, I thought you had gotten citizenship. Here I'm referring to "American" as having American citizenship. Obviously like I said, your country of origin is Argentina.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:58 pm

Adit wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Adit wrote:
Young Kaz wrote:


What makes Argentina uncivilized?


The current population doesn't have much civilizational connection with the land. It is fairly new and the concept of nation for argentina is not based on much civilizational values.

Rather geographical convenience made it possible.


define "civilizational connection with the land"

I can assure you this is 100% false for Argentina: " They love their country of origin more then US of A . They would infact support the country of origin if there was a major conflict between the parent and host country."

It's also largely false for the US, Betty aside



The civilizational connection Argentina has with is Europe. The people living there are immigrants and their generations who brought european civilization there.

The original civilization of the land is long gone. Can we say Argentina is a civilizational state?

What is this original civilization you are speaking of? There were many diverse tribes when the Europeans arrived, but there was never a unified culture that dominated all (or even most) of what is today Argentina. That only existed in post Columbian times.
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Post by El Gunner Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:58 pm

Adit wrote:
El Gunner wrote:im not in the demographic you just mentioned, but i would say usually why people leave for the US is to have "a better life" economically - better access, more resources, etc etc.

But im sure the demographic will give you more varied answers


So what you are implying is that the moment USA go broke they would all jump ship like rats since they don't have much connections with the land other than money?


well pretty much yea, but that's unlikely to happen as the US is the beacon of capitalism.

i think identity crisis stretches more beyond to what you limited it to in your OP though. McLewis made a great post above, and with that i can add on - all of the world's current identity crises probably started as soon colonisation started.

Honestly i don't think i owe anything to my country of birth, im one of the least patriotic persons you will find. But i do share sentiments with your host country comments, if you ever emigrate to another country - i do think you as an immigrant should show signs of respect to the customs of the host country and a willingness to adapt to the country's traditions because you made the choice to go there in the first place and you knew what you were getting yourself into in this day and age because surely you did your thorough research on the country already. But that doesn't mean you have to recreate yourself totally, and citizens of that country should treat you like shit if your principles sometimes clash with collective principles of the host country. And also the current refugee issue in Europe - that's a whole other matter of its own, and i won't be getting into that for now.

On a personal note, try being a mixed race person in South Africa and Namibia. Recently it's all about whites vs blacks stemming from the highly emotional land reform issue. And "coloureds"/mixed race persons who have half African ethnicity are somewhat just caught up in the middle. Radical Blacks despise you because of your lighter skin and your preferential treatment you get from whites because of colourism, but you're still not quite white so you cannot fit into the white camp entirely.

It's actually so funny though, i have Khoisan roots (known to be the first men of Southern Africa) but Bantu ethnic groups originating more from central Africa and places like Zimbabwe and Zambia who migrated down South just before colonisation now are some of the loudest people when it comes to land reform. When technically you could say someone like me has a stronger claim on land here, but try saying that with my half-white genes in me and i would probably have a rock thrown at me Laughing
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