West Ham v Liverpool

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Post by Art Morte Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:46 am

A couple of days and it's another game, our only away game in September, against the Hammers.

Three of their four PL games of the season have been four-goal games, perhaps a little surprisingly, so mayhaps we can expect a lot of action.

Luckily for us Carroll is injured, but they've got some considerable pace and power up front now and I'm actually a little scared of their intensity; we need to be prepared to match their work-rate.

I've been quite impressed by Kouyate so far (well, I've seen only 1.5 West Ham matches this season) who works really hard in midfield and against Hull on Monday Allardyce seemed to have taken a page out of our book by playing the 4-4-2 diamond with Downing and Noble in midfield with Kouyate, Zarate in the hole and Sakho and Valencia up front.

Frankly, I think they will score against us and if we want to win, we are going to have to step up our own chance-creation and finishing and put the ball in the net two or three times ourselves.

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Post by Helmer Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:18 pm

bah gawd these threads and games are coming so think and fast, not able to cope with it Cool
1-0 win and come back home safe!!!m f*** clean sheet is imp

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Post by iftikhar Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:30 pm

If Balotelli plays, which he will, he should be partnered with a proper CF. If Coutinho plays, he should be at the tip of the Diamond. I would suggest:

-----------Mignolet-----------
Manquillo-Lovren-Sakho-Moreno
------------Gerrard-----------
------Henderson--Lallana------
-----------Raheem------------
-------Balotelli-Lambert--------

Bench: Jones, Toure, Enrique, Lucas, Coutinho, Markovic, Borini
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Post by Nishankly Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:23 pm

West Ham v Liverpool Bx5cIIgIUAEf9bh

What bib theory and training suggests
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Post by McAgger Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:33 pm

Actually bib theory also suggests Lucas in for Coutinho in that line up.

Will be really disappointed if Skrtel is brought in and Sakho is dropped.
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Post by Curtinho Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:31 am

Sakho has been erratic. Some really bad giveaways. He could use a seat.

Lucas won't bring anything over Coutinho though.
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Post by McAgger Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:14 am

Skrtel was shit before getting injured. Have you forgotten the Soton and City games. Lovren has been just as bad if not worst than Sakho. And Sakho was just as bad the two of them as well. So you see all 3 have been very disappointing so far.

What we need at this point in time is to keep the same partnership. Chopping and changing is doing the worst damage. But Rodgers just doesn't learn from this ffs. He's been very naive with the defensive side of the game for 2 years now. But to be fair to him, his system of attacking play doesn't really leave defenders at the best of light regardless.

I just hope Ilori comes in next season and starts for us. This season I've already come to terms with our CB's being very error prone again. Hopefully not as bad last season. At least the fullbacks have been sorted.

Letting Agger go rofl
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Post by Art Morte Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:18 am

I really hope Lucas won't start, it was seen clearly enough last season that he shouldn't play any other than that DM role.

Skrtel's our best CB and should naturally be brought back into the XI if fit.
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Post by edulfc Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:52 pm

The amount of stick skrtel is getting on here is simply unbelievable. As far as I'm concerned, he has been the best central defender in the club since carragher, and one of the top five in the league. He's fast, strong, has quick reflex, good aerial ability and scores important goals. Sakho on the other hand I wouldn't even take as our third CB. He is strong and that's were it ends. He has the mentality of a 19 year old and that can be seen in his goof tackles and numerous mistakes. Skrtel and lovren is our best CB partnership and I can't wait for skrtel to get back into the team.

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Post by Nishankly Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:39 pm

I agree with edu, Comparing the number of games played, fitness etc Skrtel is the best CB at the club now that Agger is gone. Lovren has time, Sakho cant replicate his France NT form with us. Toure wat?

I'd argue we've regressed at CB's. Fullbacks are brilliant though.
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Post by Art Morte Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:48 pm

Sakho looked good, even great, for France at the World Cup, but I think that had a lot to do with national team football being slower paced and less intense than the Premier League. When Sakho has a bit of time - whether it's on the ball or reacting to a defensive situation - he usually does pretty well, imo, but he doesn't seem ready for some of the faster situations in the Prem.
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Post by iftikhar Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:01 pm

The game is around couple of hours away and this thread hasn't gone beyond the first page!!! Suspect affraid hmm scratch
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Post by Art Morte Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:07 pm

Lucas starting, well, here's hoping he'll prove me wrong... Borini also gets a start, which is okay since it enables the diamond. Coutinho didn't even make the bench hmm
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Post by HOXTYGEN Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:33 pm

And then they scored us...poor defending, lovren a passenger.
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Post by HOXTYGEN Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:38 pm

Oh they just scored the second goal....defence and midfield nonexistent
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Post by Art Morte Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:29 pm

1-2 down at half-time and here's my reckonings:

- Playing Lucas in CM - rather than DM - is like playing a center-back in midfield. Offers absolutely nothing going forward or ball-retention wise. Allen and Can injured? Play Coutinho or Lallana there as both do a million times more in that position than Lucas. If Gerrard is injured, then play Lucas in his position, but ffs if we're going to see Lucas as CM even one more time.

- We bought three new defenders in the summer and all three started today, yet our defence appears even shittier than last season.

- Mignolet should have done better at the first goal and possibly the second one, too, although that was a perfect chip by Sakho (probably meant it as a pass, though).

- We're creating f all in attack. A superb finish by Sterling, though, from one of our rare attacks. SUB LUCAS OFF ALREADY TO ADD MORE ATTACKING THREAT!
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Post by Helmer Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:35 pm

BR :facepalm: ll never learn f b stupidity

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Post by iftikhar Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:01 pm

Lambert should come in for Borini now
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Post by HOXTYGEN Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:26 pm

Well beaten!
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Post by Art Morte Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:48 pm

The game against Aston Villa had just one goal in it and I thought we deserved nothing from it. This game in the end had two goals in it against us and we deserved even less from it.

I said it on the first page already, but I'll say it again: Never ever start Lucas in a CM position again. Never.

Borini offered nothing as well. The one run where he got through the defence and needed to square it to the back post to Henderson, he decides to shoot from a bad angle, straight at the keeper. He was selfish to turn down the good-money moves to Sunderland or QPR in the summer and he was selfish on the pitch tonight, showcasing very little strengths.

Defence. I'm sorry, but how can you sign three defensive "reinforcements" in the transfer window and start all of them only to end up noticing they haven't improved our defensive capabilities at all? Here's a challenge I'll put forward to our new defenders right now: Lovren to be actually defensively better than Kolo Toure and Moreno to be actually defensively better than Jose Enrique. I'm ready to start both Toure and Enrique in the next PL game.

He has done some great things for our club, but I'm looking at Rodgers to address these things. He is still making some mistakes, the most blatant one being starting Lucas in a CM position after already having the evidence from last season to tell he shouldn't be playing there. Some of our signings could be questioned *cough Lovren cough*. And our dependency to break through the middle: Towards the end of this match it was obvious West Ham were defending deep, making it hard to penetrate them... yet we're still predominantly trying to pass it neatly through the middle. Yet we have Balotelli and Lambert on the field, two players good in the air. Just play it simply, ffs, and pump in crosses, try to get the midfielders attack the second balls. But no, we look as out-of-ideas in attack as ever. In some ways we need to get back to basics.

/rant
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Post by Curtinho Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:01 pm

I'm not panicking yet. Today alone we had 7 (Manquillo, Lovren, Moreno, Lallana, Borini, Balotelli and Lambert) players play that didn't play for us last season. Right now we're still finding our feet and missing some very key players for the team (Sturridge, Allen, Can). Lucas is very clearly past it, and Henderson looked a bit worn (he kept holding his right ribs throughout the game...worried he's a bit knicked).

That said no excuse to lose this game. Our defence is been dismal, and there is nobody avoiding scrutiny. They've all been poor. I don't know why Enrique hasn't been given more of a chance given he's defensively solid and can run for days. He won't bring Moreno's dynamism but he will be better going back.

Mignolet is just not a top keeper. He's good with his reflexes, but his read of the game and command leave a lot to be desired. If BR is going to continue to play a high (ish) line and expect our centrebacks to contribute to the build-up then we'll need a keeper that has better instincts, can rush out better, and can control the space behind the defence better. Mignolet just won't cut it with the system we play.

Gerrard continues to be average in league play despite his good CL performance mid week (hint, he needs to be rested).

Anyway, I want to see what we look like 10 games and then 15 games in. At 15 games is where I figure the new players should really start meshing with the other players.
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Post by mr-r34 Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:32 am

FML Lucas at CM, gerrard 3 games in a week, do we even have a coach for defense, you can blame the players we have but when every player comes in and looks shit on our defense we gotta start looking up.
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Post by Red Alert Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:20 am

^ lol
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Post by McAgger Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:36 am

Ok go to the summer transfer window thread we had in our section and look back at the posts when we were first linked with Lovren. Every single one of us here laughed at the prospect of signing him for 20m because we all felt he wasn't at all an improvement over the already average CB's we had. And well he's been SHIT. It's not hindsight at all to say this because we all knew he wasn't good enough (except maybe one person I don't remember who). It's embarrassing for scouts, the transfer committee and even Rodgers that a bunch of people on the internet can spot something they apparently can't. He's got to improve because whether we like it or not we're stuck with him this season at least.

Skrtel Laughing The biggest culprit alongside Johnson for last season *bleep* ups defensively is still the love child for Rodgers. He was utterly dross against Soton and City, his injury was even a blessing in disguise but he walks straight back into the team. It's embarrassing. Every blind man can see 30 year old Skrtel is shit and not good enough for our level or our system. But once again MUST improve because we're stuck with him whether we like it or not.

Sakho has been terrible for us. As good as he is for France, he's sooooooooooo bad for us and our system. Just doesn't at all fit the sort of player we need back there.

Booting Agger for these 3 worthless players :facepalm:

We're stuck with them 3 this season so for me I expect an absolutely terrible defensive campaign once again. We're not going to do shit in CL with these CB's. The competition where you must be able to keep clean sheets and we're more open than a brothel.


The only silver lining for me is that Moreno and Manquillo are quality. And also that we're sooooooo bad defensively that it couldn't possibly get any worse.

All of my hope for our CB's rests on Ilori's potential. Like I preached all summer it would've been best to just give him the starting position and let him grow here. It could NOT possibly be any worse than having the other 3 clowns on this form.

AND FOR THE LOVE GOD VALDES PLEASE GET FIT QUICK AND SIGN.

Mignolet is a terrific shotstopper. Period. Literally period. He's absolutely worthless in everything else. I've never seen a less commanding keeper my life.

That's only for the defense. And it doesn't help that we've got a 35 year old playing 3 90 minutes matches in a week.


Rodgers must take the blame because he's the one making these decision in terms who should play. And they are wrong decisions. However he's very young and will only learn. He can only learn on the defensive side of the game because he's really not improved us at all defensive in these 2+ years.


HOWEVER, Rodgers is still the same tactically astute manager. Because EVERYONE and their mothers have figured out how to play against us and shadow mark Stevie out of the matches, his next challenge is to figure how to get us past that. The obvious decision should be to drop Stevie if every team shadow marks him out because he's useless otherwise. But nobody in the world would have the balls to drop Stevie, NO ONE. So he plays and Rodgers must find a way to counter these shadow marking tactics.

AND FINALLY WTF HAPPENED TO OUR PRESSING. JESUS, THE REMEDY THAT WORKED SO WELL FOR US AND WE'VE COMPLETELY STOPPED USING IT. PRESS!!! PRESS!! PRESS!! FFS CMON.
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Post by McAgger Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:46 am

Oh yeah Lucas and Borini Laughing Borini is stealing a living. Cost us 14 million pounds when all we want is for him to just *bleep* off. Lucas is just past it sadly. As much as I love him, once again the internet transfer gurus of GL were right and the Liverpool committee were wrong. Should've got rid of him as most of us said.
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