So we're just gonna ignore what's happening in Gaza right now?

VivaStPauli wrote:Labelling the catholic-raised Bill Maher a "zionist jew" is pretty much already discrediting anyone taking that stance already, especially for people who've seen "Religulous" and know Maher's actual stance on Zionism.

Anyway, that's besides the point.

I actually came to post this neat little article I stumbled upon, which is presenting a rather balanced point of view, and should probably be consumed by both sides:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/picking-a-side-in-israel-palestine_b_5602701.html

(In short: the author discusses 7 important points that show that the conflict isn't black-and-white, and shines a light on the wrong both sides commit.
And yes, he does not favor Israel, so you really can read the piece without rage quitting, you guys.)

I didn't name the video nor do I condone its offensively ignorant title lol.

I just found the video I was looking for and posted it, didn't notice the ridiculous title until now.

VivaStPauli wrote:Anyway, that's besides the point.

I actually came to post this neat little article I stumbled upon, which is presenting a rather balanced point of view, and should probably be consumed by both sides:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/picking-a-side-in-israel-palestine_b_5602701.html

(In short: the author discusses 7 important points that show that the conflict isn't black-and-white, and shines a light on the wrong both sides commit.
And yes, he does not favor Israel, so you really can read the piece without rage quitting, you guys.)

viva pls

BarrileteCosmico wrote:I'm hesitant to post this given the trend of this thread, but I found this article, written by a Muslim Canadian-Pakistani, to be nuanced and fair:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/post_8056_b_5602701.html

lol, didn't even check the article you posted, viva. now that i have i can tell you we've already discussed how "balanced" the piece is.

Really poor.

I already offered a short response to that amateurish look at the conflict but this comment is pretty potent as well.

And as if the author was worried some might take this extremely sensitive issue too seriously, he capped it off with a Hummus joke. Brilliant.

Spoiler:

just to shed some light on what's going on in my neck of the woods;

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/thousands-attend-opposing-rallies-over-israelgaza-conflict-20140803-zzxup.html

Take note of the Australian flags... although this is in the eastern suburbs of Sydney which has a large Jewish population.. I suspect there are many out there who are not so much pro-Zionism as Islamaphobic, and anti-Arab. Particularly in Australia's case in any instance, only a few years ago there was large scale rioting in Cronulla (suburb of Sydney) which was effectively a race riot against the middle-eastern people of Sydney.

There are of course plenty of protests going on against Israel too. Mostly from the Muslim community and the socialists.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/thousands-in-sydney-join-global-gaza-protests-20140713-zt61t.html

Also many small protests going on outside businesses who openly support Israel and send "aid".
The global boycotting is proving effective and the US senate are reportedly attempting to block further military aid.

The majority of mainstream media in Australia is the same as the UK and US in their obvious partiality to the crisis. I find Australians on the whole are pretty dismissive of the idea that Palestinians are currently being massacred by the IDF. Even most of my uni-educated friends who are generally pretty left-wing politically seem to empathise with Israel, basically taking the position that "both parties are in the wrong". I find that principles of gender, sex and race equality get thrown out of the windows when it comes to religion amongst liberal youths, particularly where Islam is involved. Just my perception.

It would be interesting if others could share how the country they are in are reacting to current events.

guest_07 wrote:

You cannot be serious?! You would be naive to think that Israel would just pick up and leave. It would be more likely for Palestinians to leave and even that would never happen.

Gregg Carlstrom ‏@glcarlstrom 17m (Al Jazeera, Israel)
Israeli army says it has finished anti-tunnel operations in Gaza. Back over to the politicians now, to figure out an objective and endgame.

Human Right Watch says it has evidence Israel forces ordered Palestinians to leave homes in Khuza’a then shot them as they fled

http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/08/04/gaza-israeli-soldiers-shoot-and-kill-fleeing-civilians

wow. appalling.

RealGunner wrote:Human Right Watch says it has evidence Israel forces ordered Palestinians to leave homes in Khuza’a then shot them as they fled

http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/08/04/gaza-israeli-soldiers-shoot-and-kill-fleeing-civilians

they were defending themselves ffs

israel jew question, former malaysian pm, tun mahathir answer:

Hannan, a Jew from Israel wrote an email to Tun as follows :-..


1. I would like to have the Malaysian Armed Forces attack the United States and Israel.”
Oh, great hero. You had the chance to do it while you were the PM in service. Why didn’t you tried out the strength of the Malaysian army and its skills? You had a good chance to become the Muslim hero committing Jihad on the apes and monkeys. To become the Salah ed Din of the modern times. How could you miss that opportunity to demolish both, America and Israel and leaving Iran to do it solely? Oh great rhetoric, do you know how a war looks like?

You care about the babies of Iraq, Palestinians, etc… How lucky we are you don’t need to care about the Jewish children suffering daily rockets from Hamas who is a Muslim charity organization. Oh, their 8 years of rockets in a quantity of thousands were full of candies ammunition that was spreading sweets to the children of Sederot and the Negev.

Since Jews are controlling everyone by proxy, I’m not sure you, Dr. Mahathir are not controlled by them as well. You’ll say that you are not controlled, but I can assure you that I’m controlling you. Can you deny it? Even Malaysia is manipulated by Jews, that’s why they are not attacking the US and Israel. You should check very well among your government ministers and officials and find the Trojan horses there.

You hate Israel not because of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but you hate only because the hatred of Muslims against Jews, the apes and swine. Your hate is not political, but religious. You are just sinking into the modern era darkness.

You said once in one of your speeches that Muslims should use their brains to get rid of 13 Million Jews dominance among 1.3 billion Muslims. Are you a role model? Do you have the wisdom to do it? Do you have the power to do it? Do you know why your plan is not accomplished? It is because it is not true, not logical, unjustified, not because the Jew are controlling the world by proxy. History is stronger than any empire, leader or people. The Jews survived more complicated events then you are planning, so don’t be hoping too much, we survive your approach as well.

Shalom from Hanan,
a Jew, Israel.


Tun replied as follows ....

Dear Hanan,

1. I agree entirely with you that building a great nation doesn’t only take brains, but as you said it sure does help.

2. However brains alone without a heart (feelings) can produce a monster.

3. Israel is undoubtedly a great nation, becoming great through the brains and the numerous achievements you have listed. Yes I have used Israeli originated products like Microsoft Windows and Pentium chips (made in Malaysia) by Intel, an American company.

4. In fact I owe my life ultimately to Israel because there must be something invented by Israelis in the numerous instruments used in heart surgery. However most of the products used were invented and produced by Japanese.

5. I am amazed at the number of Nobel Laureates Israel has produced. I admit we have not produced even one.

6. But when the brain is without a heart it does not care for the misery resulting from the products of the brain.

7. The atom bombs which killed 100,000 men, women, children and babies are the product of Israeli (Jewish) brain. Most of the diabolical weapons now being used to kill millions of people are also the creation of Israelis on Zionist Jews. The depleted uranium and phosphorous shells being used in Gaza are also the product of Israeli brains.

8. The current financial crisis which is destroying the economies of the U.S. Britain and in fact all the countries of the world is due to manipulations of banks, financial institutions and the monetary system by Jewish supporters of Israel.

9. The negation of the freedom of speech when it comes to the alleged killings of Jews in World War II are also inspired by Zionist Jews.

10. But worse of all is the seizure of Palestinian land to create the state of Israel. Not content with the area given to the Jews by the United Nations you have seized more Palestinian land, built settlements on many parts of Palestine, disallowed the use of roads built on Palestinian land to the Palestinians, erected your own check points at the borders of Palestine with Jordan and built your version of the Berlin Wall through Palestinian villages on land that is not part of Israel.

11. Before the creation of Israel, the Jews and Arabs in Palestine lived in peace. Historically Jews had always sought refuge in Muslim countries when the Europeans conducted pogroms against them. This only stopped after the U.S. offered asylum.

12. All the terrorism that we see today, whether state initiated or by irregulars, started after the U.S. backed Israel against Arab attempts to regain their land through conventional wars. Because they were outclassed in terms of weapons by the U.S, / Israel, alliance, then only did the Arabs resort to what is called terrorism. The Israeli response have always been with greater terrorism as is seen in Gaza.

13. I have asked an American what he would do if Texas was given to the Jews to create the state of Israel. He did not answer. But I believe he would fight to get back Texas, employing all the weapons at its disposal.

14. Yet had the United States been willing to create the nation of Israel in the lands under U.S. control or in the U.S. itself, there would be no terrorism in Palestine or in the Middle East. There would be no terrorism in America either because Israel would be wiped out by the U.S. forces. The world would remain peaceful.

15. The brutality committed by your forces in Gaza is out of all proportion to the puny rocket attacks by Hamas. That attack was the result of Israel and the U.S. failing to accept the results of a properly conducted election.

16. Hamas could only establish their Government in Gaza. But you blockaded Gaza, denying them food, medicine, power, fuel etc. If you had not done that I doubt that Hamas would fire rockets at you.

17. Malaysia is well aware that total boycott of Israel is not possible. We are in fact boycotting American products which is an even more impossible task. We would not be able to bring America or Israel down.

18. But what we aim to do is to demonstrate the disgust and the anger that we feel over the inhumanity of the brainy but primitive peoples of Israel and America.

19. You can collect Nobel prizes and other prizes but the world will look down upon you as very primitive people who robbed land through terror against perfidious British and subsequently used your control over the world’s greatest military power to oppress the people whom you had robbed.

20. You have nothing to be proud of, unless of course you take pride in being heartless, in being primitive brutes.

21. The only mitigating factor is the presence among Israelis of a small number who are ashamed of what you have done to the people of Gaza.


Regards - Mahathir

source:
http://nblo.gs/YWbVY

RealGunner wrote:Human Right Watch says it has evidence Israel forces ordered Palestinians to leave homes in Khuza’a then shot them as they fled

http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/08/04/gaza-israeli-soldiers-shoot-and-kill-fleeing-civilians

There are faults on both sides. Hamas is to blame for this ffs.

There ARE faults on both sides though.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/ndtv-exclusive-how-hamas-assembles-and-fires-rockets-571033?pfrom=home-lateststories

the joos are pushing their propaganda through india now, there is truly no stopping them

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/08/04/snowden_latest_nsa_helps_israel_target_palestinians_gaza/

http://www.statesman.com/news/ap/top-news/iran-says-it-gave-missile-technology-to-hamas/ngtbk/

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/300791#.U-EZRqMypPZ

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2014/Aug-04/265995-israel-slaughter-is-not-justified-france.ashx#axzz39Xc7F33O

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/08/04/obama-signs-bill-giving-israel-225-million-for-missile-defense-system/

http://www.worldbulletin.net/world/141870/israeli-official-calls-for-concentration-camps-in-gaza

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.608872

http://eipa.eu.com/2014/08/gaza-residents-slam-hamas-for-their-suffering-hamas-spokesman-beaten/

VivaStPauli & BarrileteCosmico wrote: Viva: I actually came to post this neat little article I stumbled upon, which is presenting a rather balanced point of view, and should probably be consumed by both sides:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/picking-a-side-in-israel-palestine_b_5602701.html

(In short: the author discusses 7 important points that show that the conflict isn't black-and-white, and shines a light on the wrong both sides commit.
And yes, he does not favor Israel, so you really can read the piece without rage quitting, you guys.)

BC: I'm hesitant to post this given the trend of this thread, but I found this article, written by a Muslim Canadian-Pakistani, to be nuanced and fair:

Pretty much sums up what I thought about this war. Neither side is innocent.

Except that that article has already been debunked several times over with the amateurish arguments it makes.

And ffs, idk how many times I have to stress that there aren't "sides".

It isn't Hamas vs Israel and criticizing the murder of children and innocents doesn't make you pro-Hamas, it makes you human.

source:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/12173_848655058479117_3498817977928401819_n.jpg?oh=e08a9073de9c26ab05ca608bd2d37a8c&oe=54561185&__gda__=1412845958_34c0cbfcb465899415368be0ee85716a

even after plo, then fatah, then hamas, then i don't know how many will born after this, as long as this israel occupation on palestine is still active

Any discussions of ISIS going around or was that ignored as well?

Definitely not ignored, but it needs its own thread then.

I'm surely up to talk about it since it's my countrymen in the thick of it with those psychos.

The whole middle east is messed up, i wonder when all these hostilities ends.

When they educate themselves and let go of extremism. Stop with the bigotry and Zealotry. Drop the egos and become more liberal and understanding. More tolerant.

But Middle East and Parts of Asia are beyond repair. Obviously there are more than enough liberals in those areas. But they will always get out-voiced. Speaking out in some areas means public execution. See recent events in Pakistan or Iraq.

People have just given up in most areas and have accepted their reality. Can't blame them nor it is cowardly. It is what it is.

Thankfully some cities and countries are learning. Dubai is a great example in UAE And Iran as a country too.

This is all the result of a few racist old Europeans with a lot of power over a century ago.

and add Lebanon to the list of more liberalized views.