Re: So we're just gonna ignore what's happening in Gaza right now?

by MJ Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:35 am

It's nothing to do with that, I just don't understand what he thinks Israelis need to be "freed" from.

And Bill Maher with this fantastically ignorant and even sexist tweet:

@billmaher · 16h
Dealing w/ Hamas is like dealing w/ a crazy woman who's trying to kill u - u can only hold her wrists so long before you have to slap her

by RED Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:08 am

MJGunner wrote:It's nothing to do with that, I just don't understand what he thinks Israelis need to be "freed" from.

And Bill Maher with this fantastically ignorant and even sexist tweet:

@billmaher · 16h
Dealing w/ Hamas is like dealing w/ a crazy woman who's trying to kill u - u can only hold her wrists so long before you have to slap her

Like I said, he's a misinformed ****. Pay no attention to them when it comes to this matter.

by RED Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:14 am

Also, they are part of the propaganda the western media are pushing.

by RED Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:35 pm

I see this Malaysian Airline disaster will push the Gaza genocide a few pages back in the papers.

Both are terrible, but one will be deemed as more tragic. No guesses on who the media will choose to symphasise with.

by RealGunner Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:41 pm

No one will lose their jobs over reporting the Malaysian plane incident.

People have, and will keep losing their job if the show any favouritism over the Gaza issue. They are not even allowed to say that Palestine is being occupied.

It's not that the journalists/politicians don't want to report it/talk about it. In the end they have families to feed. No one wants to get sacked.

by RED Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:37 am

The Scum have brainwashed everyone into thinking they are the victims.

The Yahoodies run the media too. They force the propaganda, and the sheep that work for them must tow the line.

by KevinNYC Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:32 am

As someone who has worked as a semi-professional freelance journalist and is currently in school studying to become a professional journalist with a concentration on human rights, I can tell you that the so-called "journalists" you see on American television are nothing more then dressed up presstitutes. The real journalists are the ones who get no glory and are hated by the government for telling the truth.

In the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, the mainstream press wants people to think that this is an ancient conflict that has no end in sight. In reality though, the conflict is a direct result of what happens when refugees displace previous populations and turn them into new refugees.

But I think the first step towards a lasting solution would be for the US gov't to stop mediating the peace talks and arming Israel.

by Mamad Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:32 am

by KevinNYC Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:36 am

By the way, if anybody has any doubts that the US media is extremely slanted and biased check out this article from the intercept about the NBC reporter who covered Gaza and was taken off the air because of his reporting:

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/07/17/nbc-removes-ayman-mohyeldin-gaza-coverage-witnesses-israeli-beach-killing-four-boys/

by RED Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:48 am

So we're just gonna ignore what's happening in Gaza right now? - Page 3 10475453_10152135947982541_2176074299142398679_n

Kevin, American media are scum, mate. I hate them as much as your government.

by Mamad Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:59 am

by FennecFox7 Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:14 am

The media in the us is ass smashed by the zionists every day

Whats been said about israel in this thread basically reiterates my thoughts. A bunch of thugs who are evil beyond anything

I just want to clarify something mclewis brought up that i keep seeing over and over again. The whole fact that hamas would destory israel if they had the same firepower. truth is hamas wouldnt EXIST if palestine was in the same condition as israel. Use your brains people

by VivaStPauli Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:23 am

Palestine wouldn't exist in it's current form if it wasn't completely subsumed by Hamas ideologists either, if you'd care to use your brain.

Israel is an overreacting military power with a chimp on it's back, yes. But Hamas is hiding between the civilian populace, and has, in it's statement of intent, as a major goal the mass genocide of the jewish people.
What the hell else are the Israelis supposed to do?
Let's not forget that there's a ton of Muslims living in Israel and doing so perfectly fine.

So while I'm open to discussing methods, and maybe scope, it's not like the Israelis are openly pursuing a genocidal ideology. Hamas is.

Just have a brief look at §7 of the 1986 Hamas Charta, and tell me how they didn't bring this on themselves.

by MJ Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:55 am

Considering the Israeli state itself was birthed through terrorism (King David Hotel Bombing 1946 and others carried out by a party which would go on to become Likud, one of Israel's most popular right wing parties), I find it hard to grasp the notion that Israel should have the right to hold any moral superiority over Hamas.

This could only go into a deeper discussion about whether terrorism can ever be morally permissible given a lack of options (let's face it, Palestinians live in a modern concentration camp; worthless papers, death looming at the drop of a leaflet that gives vague directions as to where you should run since they're about to blow your house up for no reason other than the fact that they're just going to ) but we should avoid that.

I fail to see how this discussion even led to Hamas and its hiding among the civilian populace when so many of the murdered had absolutely no connection to Hamas (4 children on the beach targeted by two missiles, there's absolutely no way Hamas can be blamed for Israel targeting an empty beach)

If Israel were only targeting Hamas infrastructure or buildings where known Hamas officials and members lived then maybe they could make a stronger case but the thing is, they're not. They're bombing at will wherever they like and the fact that nearly 300 civilians are dead with a quarter being children says just about everything you need to know.

I wish I could put into words the horror that Israel put Lebanon through in 2006 as it's very similar to what's going on now. I'm not going to turn this into a Hezbollah vs Israel case just as I refused to do with Hamas as that's not the point.

But Israel made it clear when bombing Lebanon that most of the targets they were hitting weren't Hezbollah-affiliated in any way. They wanted to scare the Lebanese into disassociating itself from the group by destroying the country's infrastructure. That was actually their statement of intent. Actually, my aunt's house was destroyed for no reason whatsoever and it was only restored two years ago, just on a personal note.

Over 3,000 Lebanese dead and Israel claims the right to do that because it's defending itself from Hezbollah which it clearly wasn't. It was targeting civilians just as it is now.

by KevinNYC Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:00 am

MJGunner wrote:Considering the Israeli state itself was birthed through terrorism (King David Hotel Bombing 1946 and others carried out by a party which would go on to become Likud, one of Israel's most popular right wing parties), I find it hard to grasp the notion that Israel should have the right to hold any moral superiority over Hamas.

This could only go into a deeper discussion about whether terrorism can ever be morally permissible given a lack of options (let's face it, Palestinians live in a modern concentration camp; worthless papers, death looming at the drop of a leaflet that gives vague directions as to where you should run since they're about to blow your house up for no reason other than the fact that they're just going to ) but we should avoid that.

I fail to see how this discussion even led to Hamas and its hiding among the civilian populace when so many of the murdered had absolutely no connection to Hamas (4 children on the beach targeted by two missiles, there's absolutely no way Hamas can be blamed for Israel targeting an empty beach)

If Israel were only targeting Hamas infrastructure or buildings where known Hamas officials and members lived then maybe they could make a stronger case but the thing is, they're not. They're bombing at will wherever they like and the fact that nearly 300 civilians are dead with a quarter being children says just about everything you need to know.

I wish I could put into words the horror that Israel put Lebanon through in 2006 as it's very similar to what's going on now. I'm not going to turn this into a Hezbollah vs Israel case just as I refused to do with Hamas as that's not the point.

But Israel made it clear when bombing Lebanon that most of the targets they were hitting weren't Hezbollah-affiliated in any way. They wanted to scare the Lebanese into disassociating itself from the group by destroying the country's infrastructure. That was actually their statement of intent. Actually, my aunt's house was destroyed for no reason whatsoever and it was only restored two years ago, just on a personal note.

Over 3,000 Lebanese dead and Israel claims the right to do that because it's defending itself from Hezbollah which it clearly wasn't. It was targeting civilians just as it is now.

Very good post. It's always illuminating to hear personal stories such as these.

What you described seems like a common tactic nowadays. USA did the same thing prior to their invasion of Iraq. They called it 'shock and awe'. In other words, terrify people with such crazy violence that they will be too scared to resist.

by RED Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:33 am

VivaStPauli wrote:Palestine wouldn't exist in it's current form if it wasn't completely subsumed by Hamas ideologists either, if you'd care to use your brain.

Israel is an overreacting military power with a chimp on it's back, yes. But Hamas is hiding between the civilian populace, and has, in it's statement of intent, as a major goal the mass genocide of the jewish people.
What the hell else are the Israelis supposed to do?
Let's not forget that there's a ton of Muslims living in Israel and doing so perfectly fine.

So while I'm open to discussing methods, and maybe scope, it's not like the Israelis are openly pursuing a genocidal ideology. Hamas is.

Just have a brief look at §7 of the 1986 Hamas Charta, and tell me how they didn't bring this on themselves.

-25% insulting other users

by Hapless_Hans Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:07 am

@viva this 'hiding behind the civilian populace' agument is a load of nonsense really.
You realize Hamas is the party of the 'civilian' elected government in Gaza - when such a thing still existed.
Gaza has a size less than Köln, with double the population density. Where else would they be 'hiding'.
Destroying goevernment infrastructure, like police station, will never stop the rocket attacks, on the contrary, and Israel knows that very well.

The sad fact of the matter is that this eternal state of warfare has radicalized not only Palestinian, but also Israeli politics.

They've got an far-right extremist government now, there's no other way to put it.
War- and fear-mongering is what Netanjahu lives on, without that he is nothing.

Things like the mere thought of Palestinians getting some kind of state have been systematically expelled from official Israeli doctrine by now.

Because at the end of the day, THEY can live with the status quo, especially since they have the power to gradually shift it to their favor day by day.
There are racist extremists in the governing cabinet who see the whole west of the Jordan river area, probably even actual Jordan, as belonging to them by divine right.

They are achieving this by divide and conquer, they supported Hamas initially against PLO, now they have divided and worn down any kind of political representation Palestinians have developed, and that leaves only extremist factions and desperate people, which again feeds the cycle of continuing occupation and warfare, as you're 'fighting against extremists'..

This "...but Hamas wants to destroy Israel" argument is so laughably in disconnect with the actual situation, with who is destroying whom; and with the way Israel's right-wing politics have addressed this issue - with crackdowns, settlements and McCarthyite stuff in their own parliament - there's no hope the extremism of Palestinians will get any less, while progressive Israelis are thoroughly disillusioned and powerless by now.

by RED Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:18 am

It was worth the -25%.

Anybody that spouts nonsense that the western media regurgitates deserves such a response.

Because it tells me whoever spouts such things is trying to justify the Zionists' horrific actions.

by Pedram Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:23 am

John Kerry just got caught on camera criticizing the Zionist regime's operation. Laughing

by MJ Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:42 am

Only with Israel would he be "caught" saying something critical as if it's wrong to open their actions up to scrutiny.

by RED Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:45 am

MJGunner wrote:Only with Israel would he be "caught" saying something critical as if it's wrong to open their actions up to scrutiny.

Spot on. And that in itself speaks volumes about how messed up this world is.

by la bestia negra Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:37 pm

one soldier kidnapped already

is BIBI really dumb enough to pull a 2006 again ??

allah y3een ahellna

by Peccadillo Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:51 pm

makes me psychically sick.

I can't hope for more pain to be inflicting on Zionist scum and those who support them.

by FennecFox7 Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:32 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:
Let's not forget that there's a ton of Muslims living in Israel and doing so perfectly fine.

Whoh..

hold your horses buddy Laughing

sepharic jews don't even have full rights in israel Laughing

I don't even want to know the shit palestineans go through there. The racism is strong with israel

If israel integrated gaza peacefully then again, hamas wouldn't relevant or exist

by guest_07 Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:03 am

only israel zionist are the only group on this world have a right to kill every one they want without been punish

that includes USS Liberty incident by israel zionist fighter jet:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

us journalist killed by israel zionist bulldozer that want to destroy palestinian homes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Corrie

by guest_07 Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:32 am

[mention]Israel uses sophistcated attack jets and naval vessels to bomb densely-crowded refugee camps, schools, apartment blocks, mosques and slums to attack a population that has no air force no air defense, no nave, no heavy weapons, no artillery units, no mechanized armor, no command in control, no army and calls it war. It is not war, It is murder.
Noam Chomsky[/mention] wrote:

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