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Post by Ganso Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:02 pm

Our 2010 starting team was invincible,we would probably have reached the final and win vs Spain with our devastating counters.We lost because we didn't have a bench.We had to play Alves in midfield with half-injured Kaka.Gilberto fcking Silva was our replacement for Ramires who was suspended lol not to mention we thought the game was already won by our great 1st half and got complacent.This time around we have a great bench and since we are playing home, the fans won't let the players get complacent.

the last time we lost a official game in home soil was in 1957.I think we only lost twice at home actually, in 1950 and in 1957.

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Post by Ganso Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:07 pm

@Art Morte wrote:
@messixaviesta wrote:
You said Brazil don't look like they will lose any time before the final. Is it mainly because of the host factor or because of how good they are? WC 2010's Brazil looked invincible to me but still they lost.


I think there's a fairly good chance that Spain will finish second in group B, it's such a tight group, and therefore meet Brasil in the last-16. And the winner of that match is likely to face Colombia in the last-8, imo, so Brasil's road isn't that easy. Maybe.
our side of the bracket is terrible.we will face Netherlands/Chile/Spain then Colombia/England/Italy then Germany and Argentina/Spain should be waiting for us in the final.it might be the toughest bracket we have ever faced in a WC
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Post by messixaviesta Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:14 pm

@Ganso wrote:Our 2010 starting team was invincible,we would probably have reached the final and win vs Spain with our devastating counters.We lost because we didn't have a bench.We had to play Alves in midfield with half-injured Kaka.Gilberto fcking Silva was our replacement for Ramires who was suspended lol not to mention we thought the game was already won by our great 1st half and got complacent.This time around we have a great bench and since we are playing home, the fans won't let the players get complacent.

the last time we lost a official game in home soil was in 1957.I think we only lost twice at home actually, in 1950 and in 1957.


Great comments.

I think the one problem area in that starting XI was the left back. Otherwise I daresay it was better than your current starting XI.

Why Alves played midfield is the question? I think Elano got injured and Dunga decided to use Alves instead of Ramires in that position.

I think the original central midfield combo was Melo and Gilberto Silva. Maybe some time later Dunga decided to replace Gilberto with Ramires but I can't recall this well.

Kaka may have been half injured but he still played quite well. Also I think no coach has brought out more out of Robinho than Dunga.

Complacency may have been a problem as in the first half against the Netherlands Brazil completely dominated and only Stekelenburg's possibly career best save prevented it from being a 2-0. Few could have predicted what was coming in the second half. The key to the game I felt was the trouble Robben caused Michel Bastos at left back. After being booked he got substituted but the replacement did no better. When it became 1-1 it could still have been anyone's game but that is where players such as Melo lost their heads. Perhaps one aspect in which Dunga failed was he didn't prepare the team how to cope with fast quality right wing attackers such as Robben knowing he had a weak left back.

As for the bench as far as I can remember there wasn't that much available to call up then but one extra attacker in the squad instead of one defensive player may have been ideal.

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Post by messixaviesta Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:18 pm

@Ganso wrote:
@Art Morte wrote:
@messixaviesta wrote:
You said Brazil don't look like they will lose any time before the final. Is it mainly because of the host factor or because of how good they are? WC 2010's Brazil looked invincible to me but still they lost.


I think there's a fairly good chance that Spain will finish second in group B, it's such a tight group, and therefore meet Brasil in the last-16. And the winner of that match is likely to face Colombia in the last-8, imo, so Brasil's road isn't that easy. Maybe.
our side of the bracket is terrible.we will face Netherlands/Chile/Spain then Colombia/England/Italy then Germany and Argentina/Spain should be waiting for us in the final.it might be the toughest bracket we have ever faced in a WC


It'll be tough but it's immense to be able to win the tournament like that. When India won the cricket world cup in 2011 we did it by beating the strongest teams one after another and it filled us with immense pride.

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Post by Ganso Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:47 pm

@messixaviesta wrote:
@Ganso wrote:Our 2010 starting team was invincible,we would probably have reached the final and win vs Spain with our devastating counters.We lost because  we didn't have a bench.We had to play Alves in midfield with half-injured Kaka.Gilberto fcking Silva was our replacement for Ramires who was suspended lol not to mention we thought the game was already won by our great 1st half and got complacent.This time around we have a great bench and since we are playing home, the fans won't let the players get complacent.

the last time we lost a official game in home soil was in 1957.I think we only lost twice at home actually, in 1950 and   in 1957.


Great comments.

I think the one problem area in that starting XI was the left back. Otherwise I daresay it was better than your current starting XI.

Why Alves played midfield is the question? I think Elano got injured and Dunga decided to use Alves instead of Ramires in that position.

I think the original central midfield combo was Melo and Gilberto Silva. Maybe some time later Dunga decided to replace Gilberto with Ramires but I can't recall this well.

Kaka may have been half injured but he still played quite well. Also I think no coach has brought out more out of Robinho than Dunga.

Complacency may have been a problem as in the first half against the Netherlands Brazil completely dominated and only Stekelenburg's possibly career best save prevented it from being a 2-0. Few could have predicted what was coming in the second half. The key to the game I felt was the trouble Robben caused Michel Bastos at left back. After being booked he got substituted but the replacement did no better. When it became 1-1 it could still have been anyone's game but that is where players such as Melo lost their heads. Perhaps one aspect in which Dunga failed was he didn't prepare the team how to cope with fast quality right wing attackers such as Robben knowing he had a weak left back.

As for the bench as far as I can remember there wasn't that much available to call up then but one extra attacker in the squad instead of one defensive player may have been ideal.
yeah, Elano was the starter(our best player at the WC) however he got injured.Alves played in his position.Ramires was also great for us, but he was suspended.

I think that team was better than our current one.Neymar and Thiago are better than any player in that squad, however, it was a great unit and it was so mechanically perfect in attack.

About the call up, Neymar,Adriano and Ganso should have been on that squad, and the day the call up was announced it was a total disaster.every fan in Brazil was depressed and the anti-Dunga campaign got even bigger.Specially for the absence of Ganso and Neymar.Ganso could have started instead of Alves and Neymar coming in in the second half could have completely changed the game.
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Post by messixaviesta Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:28 pm

Thanks for the reply. Neymar you can say but then that team had Kaka. Thiago Silva yes but that team had Lucio coming off an outstanding season with Inter. Great point that the 2010 team was mechanically perfect in attack. I don't think the current team has that level of synergy. If Adriano was available then why he wasn't selected as left back is baffling. Dunga perceived both Neymar and Ganso to be too raw for a world cup. However there was no replacement for Kaka in his squad and that is where Ganso could have helped. Neymar could have had some impact from the bench but Dunga took Nilmar instead.

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Post by BarcaLearning Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:16 am

Huh, Im pretty sure this wasnt the case in 2010 that Brazil was that highly rated. 2006 and now they are the far favourites, but they werent even that in 2010.... The current team might not be all that impressive on paper, but performance and overall, I consider this team better than the 2010 one thats for sure.


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Post by Adit Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:46 am

2010 Brazil invincible Laughing

A team that cant score a goal to save its life if it is not counter attacks. Any team will look great defensively with 3 DMs.
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Post by messixaviesta Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:41 am

BL and Adit, a few points here.

1. Brazil wasn't the first favorite for WC 2010 as it is now because that was Spain but they were comfortably the second favorite.

2. When you say performance wise you consider this Brazil better I cannot understand what you mean. Please elaborate. This Brazil has only recently improved with the appointment of Scolari. That Brazil won pretty much everything in their sight from WC 2006 to WC 2010.

3. Which team we consider better out of the two Brazils is debatable and subjective.

4. Yes the WC 2010 Brazil was built on counter attacks but they had no problems in scoring goals. You can refer their records of Copa 2007 and Confed 2009.

5. It wasn't a possession based team. So yes it may have struggled when asked to play that way.

6. Any team may look great defensively with 3 DMs but very few would be able to make use of that to create that many meaningful attacks.

7. That Brazil won Copa 2007 where in the final they faced an Argentina ten times superior to them on paper and even Kaka wasn't there. Then they won Confed 2009 where in the final they were two goals down but still managed to claw back and win 3-2. In the qualifiers and even friendlies they maintained a constant stream of winning results. Throughout that time they invariably beat local rivals Argentina. Only because they went out in the world cup quarter final people tend to completely forget all that the team achieved. Yes it wasn't a very stylish team but it was a team with a purpose, not a hopelessly negative team like Portugal 2010.

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Post by LeBéninois Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:15 pm

2010 Brazil would have been in final had they beaten the Oranje.

Dunga's tactics were Mourinho-like but imo they just broke down mentally . remember that red card Felipe Melo stupily got ?
Brazilians were so nervous you would have thought they were the one losing the game.
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Post by Don't call me James Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:21 pm

Ganso your invincible team included Felipe *bleep* Melo and Elano? Laughing
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Post by messixaviesta Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:21 pm

Bénin wrote:2010 Brazil would have been in final had they beaten the Oranje.

Dunga's tactics were Mourinho-like but imo they just broke down mentally . remember that red card Felipe Melo stupily got ?
Brazilians were so nervous you would have thought they were the one losing the game.


Very true

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Post by messixaviesta Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:26 pm

McAgger wrote:Ganso your invincible team included Felipe *bleep* Melo and Elano? Laughing


It's easy to make fun of Felipe Melo now but in Confed 2009 he was very good and in the summer of 2009 Arsenal wanted to purchase him but he was eventually bought by Juventus for a heavy price. Then onwards things went completely wrong for him. In his first year in Serie A he won the Golden Bin award and then he became one of the villains in the world cup. As for Elano ganso said a few posts back that he considers him Brazil's best player at that tournament.

So let's now look at the current replacements since effectively the style of play especially positionally is not too dissimilar. Paulinho's hype has been very similar to Melo's. Can people convincing say he is a better player? He's coming off a poor season with Tottenham. As for Hulk despite his talent and physique he's never really convinced on the big stage and is not one of those players who I would rely on in the most difficult of situations that are of course likely to happen at a world cup.

I repeat that I consider the present Brazil excessively hyped. That hype is for three reasons - they are Brazil, their Confed 2013 performance and their being hosts. However looking at the team closely I don't see that much to be in awe of. If another top team tries hard to crack this team it should crack. Squad wise it appears considerably weaker to me than the squads of the last few world champions.

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Post by Rebaño Sagrado Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:07 pm

chuy not starting
World Cup: Group A discussion - Page 2 1234443297_ken_park_suicide
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Post by Ganso Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:46 pm

McAgger wrote:Ganso your invincible team included Felipe *bleep* Melo and Elano? Laughing
yes.we won everything bar that match vs Holland with that team.as i said, we lost the match when we lost or key starting players.in football it's not just about the players on paper and how they performed at clubs, this isn't fifa. Elano was a beast in that world cup
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Post by Adit Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:07 pm

World Cup: Group A discussion - Page 2 Brazil_zpsbab8127e


vs



World Cup: Group A discussion - Page 2 Croatiaedit_zps6a722f8f
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Post by RealGunner Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:09 pm

Tomorrow bounce
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Post by Art Morte Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:15 pm

@RealGunner wrote:Tomorrow bounce
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:16 pm

Could honestly see Croatia getting a draw, I think they're underrated in the odds.
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Post by futbol Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:18 pm

Rakitic to dominate Brazil. :coffee:

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Post by Adit Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:20 pm

I cant wait fffs



Rakitic-Modric-Kovacic :bow: what a technical midfield they are fielding.Croatias wingers are crap though, they could move Rakitic to wing and play a DM instead to balance out but its too late now.

Hope they out play DMBrazil

Ps-Mandzukic is suspended. Jelavic will play instead,


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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:22 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Could honestly see Croatia getting a draw, I think they're underrated in the odds.


In the Predictor thread with the Telegraph thing I have Croatia topping the group ahead of Brazil :coffee:
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Post by Don't call me James Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:27 pm

Perisic is very underrated too. That Croatian starting lineup looks beautiful. Although a little too offensive. Wouldn't mind dropping one of Olic/Jelavic, moving Rakitic to attack and fielding one defensive minded midfielder.
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Post by Art Morte Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:32 pm

Croatia need to score first. I can't see Brasil losing if they get the first goal to settle their nerves.
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Post by Ganso Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:51 pm

Are they seriously going to play with that midfield?who is going to mark Nerman? Laughing
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Post by Gil Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:06 pm

Modric and Rakitic defending transitions rofl

Anyway, no way they play those two in a pivot. That's just practically begging to get exposed by Neymar.


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