Game Of Thrones - Part 4 - *NO BOOK TALK - READ THE RULES*

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Post by Tomwin Lannister Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:10 pm

I'd like to believe Tyrion will be spared somehow. Even by GoT standards, killing off 2 favourite characters and therefore many potential storylines involving said characters would be damaging for ratings.

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Post by LeVersacci Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:12 pm

Many will quit if he dies. Man I hope he survives..
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Post by RealGunner Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:14 pm

Many have already quit because of Oberyn's death lol. Actually quit(real life people I know). Although half will probably come back.
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Post by LeVersacci Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:16 pm

I'll keep watching the show. Even if Hodor is the last person in Got Universe and sits on the Iron throne.
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Post by RealGunner Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:17 pm

Tomwin Lannister wrote:Well Oberyn destroyed him lol. But he got caught up with his revenge and lost in the moment

Tbf who wouldn't? You'd want to drag every second out of that revenge if the guy who raped and killed your sister and her kids was flat on his back.

I get RGs point that it's all about how you perceive the characters. But Oberyn was still a good man. Had his flaws, wasn't the perfect hero but he was fighting for what people would unanimously agree as being just.

Basically, if you want to taunt somebody you make sure they're properly incapacitated.


He was fighting for a just cause but he was also fighting for selfish reasons. Tyrion is innocent as we all know, but Oberyn wasn't fighting for that just cause of Tyrion but the just cause of his sister's death.

Of course I consider him as a good guy myself. I was just saying that GRRM writes characters in ways that he doesn't consider them either good or bad. There are no heroes or villains in GoT. The only pure evil characters are/were Joffrey and Ramsay.

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Post by RealGunner Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:19 pm

Tomwin Lannister wrote:I'd like to believe Tyrion will be spared somehow. Even by GoT standards, killing off 2 favourite characters and therefore many potential storylines involving said characters would be damaging for ratings.


True point, but Robb's character was quickly forgotten with Oberyn's entry(not to mention much more superior actor). Not a spoiler in any way at all but better actors do elevate the show even if goats such as Sean Bean are gone.
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Post by DuringTheWar Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:20 pm

I think Oberyn was going for justice as much as revenge, ie trying to get him to confess, which he did in the end in front of everybody. But unfortunately his confession didn't implicate Tywin as well
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Post by RealGunner Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:20 pm

DuringTheWar wrote:
RealGunner wrote: Does anyone in here actually cares about Elia Martell or her kids?



Mate, he raped her while still having the brains of her baby son on his hands who's head he smashed on a wall just before. Then crushed her head. Of course people care, even though she don't feature in the show


Fair enough.
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Post by Firenze Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:20 pm

McAgger wrote:
RealGunner wrote:
LeVersacci wrote:Oberyn vs Drogo.

Who would win hmm


Oberyn. Not even a question.



Yeah as beast as the Dothraki was, at this point it's quite clear the best fighter we've been introduced to so far in this 4 seasons is undoubtedly Oberyn.

Nothing indicated Drogo was a beast to me hmm

I'd back any top trained knight/kingsguard to push his shit in hmm

some scrub from essos
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:22 pm

Yeah I get that. But unlike the first couple seasons we don't really have a small army of well liked 'good' guys left

tyrion has a strong following and from what I can gather he's THE main character in peoples eyes. Killing him, and just after Oberyn himself, would be suicidal

And not forgetting, Tyrions death wouldn't even carry a big shock factor 7 days after Oberyn got crushed.
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:23 pm

Drogo was legit, but his lack of armor would work against him imo. It's understandable for small, agile guys who prefer speed. But he was all about power from what I understand. So he's at a disadvantage from the get go.
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Post by RealGunner Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:23 pm

Khal was a great fighter because he never lost a fight(his hair). However Jaime is a superior fighter and so are Barristan and Oberyn.

The latter 3 all are better skilled, and actually fought with people of different skills and types. Khal just fought with similar-ish fighters of wild tribes.

But not taking anything away from him. Was a badass in his own way.
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Post by Firenze Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:24 pm

RealGunner wrote:
Tomwin Lannister wrote:Well Oberyn destroyed him lol. But he got caught up with his revenge and lost in the moment

Tbf who wouldn't? You'd want to drag every second out of that revenge if the guy who raped and killed your sister and her kids was flat on his back.

I get RGs point that it's all about how you perceive the characters. But Oberyn was still a good man. Had his flaws, wasn't the perfect hero but he was fighting for what people would unanimously agree as being just.

Basically, if you want to taunt somebody you make sure they're properly incapacitated.


He was fighting for a just cause but he was also fighting for selfish reasons. Tyrion is innocent as we all know, but Oberyn wasn't fighting for that just cause of Tyrion but the just cause of his sister's death.

Of course I consider him as a good guy myself. I was just saying that GRRM writes characters in ways that he doesn't consider them either good or bad. There are no heroes or villains in GoT. The only pure evil characters are/were Joffrey and Ramsay.



I feel like Jon Snow is the closest thing to your typical good guy hero, maybe that changes later but he's definitely pure white as opposed to the grey of most characters. That's why I'm not really a fan of his.
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Post by RealGunner Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:28 pm

Also agree with Tom

Red Wedding didn't have an impact like this on me. This was much more to take. I had to come out of sabbatical cause of this episode.

Brutal shit man. I really loved Oberyn as well.
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:28 pm

I like him but I definitely couldn't get behind him if he ended up being the last main protagonist left. He's a good side addition to me, nothing more.

Doesn't have the same pull as Tyrion, Oberyn, Nedd n all that
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Post by Firenze Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:29 pm

That's what I'm saying. elite trained knights in armor with legit experience > Drogo. Not read the books so I don't know, but him being undefeated isn't that impressive. We haven't heard anything about anybody renowned from that area as far as I remember. I think people just overrated him because he was undefeated against a bunch of generic fighters and he was a cool character to some (wasnt fond of him) and one of the first we were introduced to. :coffee:

Not saying he's not a strong fighter but I'd be surprised if he was top 20 at the time of his death hmm
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:30 pm

Yeah this was more shocking than anything before it for me

When I say shocking I mean literally shocking, not unexpected. As non book readers had no clue about the wedding whereas Oberyn was fighting prime Kane.

One minute Oberyn is in full justice mode, next minute he's screaming in agony as his skull gets popped Laughing

I was ready to fan boy him for another 5 years of my life ffs. Red Viper had 1 fight and died lmao
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:31 pm

Another GoT deception. I was looking forward to seeing Drogo and his boys fighting the Lannisters/starks etc

I WILL TAKE THE IRON THRONE FOR MY QUEEN

*Gets sick*

*Dies*

gets REVIVED

*Dies*
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Post by RealGunner Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:32 pm

Firenze wrote:
RealGunner wrote:
Tomwin Lannister wrote:Well Oberyn destroyed him lol. But he got caught up with his revenge and lost in the moment

Tbf who wouldn't? You'd want to drag every second out of that revenge if the guy who raped and killed your sister and her kids was flat on his back.

I get RGs point that it's all about how you perceive the characters. But Oberyn was still a good man. Had his flaws, wasn't the perfect hero but he was fighting for what people would unanimously agree as being just.

Basically, if you want to taunt somebody you make sure they're properly incapacitated.


He was fighting for a just cause but he was also fighting for selfish reasons. Tyrion is innocent as we all know, but Oberyn wasn't fighting for that just cause of Tyrion but the just cause of his sister's death.

Of course I consider him as a good guy myself. I was just saying that GRRM writes characters in ways that he doesn't consider them either good or bad. There are no heroes or villains in GoT. The only pure evil characters are/were Joffrey and Ramsay.



I feel like Jon Snow is the closest thing to your typical good guy hero, maybe that changes later but he's definitely pure white as opposed to the grey of most characters. That's why I'm not really a fan of his.


Agreed. Although he did break the Night's code by sleeping and falling in love with what's her name. But he did it for the good of the wall so it does make him a batman in the world of Gotham.

Oh and Barristan as well imo.
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Post by Firenze Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:33 pm

Red Wedding had no impact on me because I wasn't invested into the characters that died, never was a fan of the starks. I knew Oberyn died like that due to being spoiled years ago, one of the few spoilers I remembered, but it still hit me hard, because at the time I just heard about the character and over the last few episodes I came to love him  Sad 

wish I wasn't spoiled though because I couldn't get that attached to him knowing he would only be around for a while.

The actor absolutely stole every scene, never heard of him before, will be checking for him in the future though, hope he gets some top roles.

Tyrion
Stannis/Davos
Jorah

pretty much the only characters living that I like right now
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:34 pm

Bronn is one of my favourites too so I hope he's not dead (figuratively speaking) along with the Tyrion - Bronn arc.

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Post by Tomwin Lannister Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:36 pm

FFS man can't come to terms with Oberyns death

Nedds was painful but it's sean *bleep* bean ffs. We all should've expected that.

Plus you could kind of see his downfall as he had the opportunity to take control, was advised to do so multiple times but chose the 'morally correct' thing to do. Which wasn't going to work in a City surrounded by thousands of Pro-Lannister soldiers.
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Post by Firenze Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:36 pm

RealGunner wrote:
Firenze wrote:
RealGunner wrote:


He was fighting for a just cause but he was also fighting for selfish reasons. Tyrion is innocent as we all know, but Oberyn wasn't fighting for that just cause of Tyrion but the just cause of his sister's death.

Of course I consider him as a good guy myself. I was just saying that GRRM writes characters in ways that he doesn't consider them either good or bad. There are no heroes or villains in GoT. The only pure evil characters are/were Joffrey and Ramsay.



I feel like Jon Snow is the closest thing to your typical good guy hero, maybe that changes later but he's definitely pure white as opposed to the grey of most characters. That's why I'm not really a fan of his.


Agreed. Although he did break the Night's code by sleeping and falling in love with what's her name. But he did it for the good of the wall so it does make him a batman in the world of Gotham.

Oh and Barristan as well imo.

I'm interested in Barristan, now that Jorah's been banished I hope he gets a more prominent role since I assume he will be filling in the advisor role for Dany, we haven't seen much of him so far and that sucks.

one plus for Jon Snow is that he's constantly involved in an interesting storyline, so I don't dislike him.
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Post by RealGunner Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:36 pm

Khal is very much like a Mountain lite. Faster but less strength. Firenze is right that he never fought anyone elite(or not mentioned anyways)

In westeros

Jaime fought with Jorah in one of the tournaments
Barristan fought with Jaime
Jaime fought with Nedd
Brienne fought with Jaime

all elite vs elite fights.
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Post by DuringTheWar Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:36 pm

No point building up these guys as awesome warriors anymore because the guy is obsessed with showing how they are all vulnerable just as anyone else:

Drogo: Goes braindead and killed out of pity by his wife

Oberyn: Has his head smashed apart

Jaime: Has his fighting hand cut off

Awesome swordsman that trained arya: Killed by meryn feckin trant

Karl tanner: Stabbed though throat by a random woman

ect

I guess the hound is probably gonna die from that bite lol
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:37 pm

@RG: Sure in GoT every character is supposed to be a shade of grey but there are certain characters out there who are not really developed as human beings and are just "evil". Obviously the writers wanted Oberyn to be a great guy and the Mountain to be this big bad monster for dramatic effect.
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