AGREE or DISAGREE: "Italian football is dead." - Luciano Moggi

Meh
As long as Milan keep winning i'll be cool with Serie A

BiasedMilanFan3 wrote:Meh
As long as Milan keep winning i'll be cool with Serie A

You won one trophy since 2004. Slow your roll.

sciacca wrote:171,000 wiretapes for Inter.

Inter made 468 phone calls per day to fix games, and in the end 99% of ref "mistakes" always went toJuve favor, made Inter should have made 600 calls per day

sciacca wrote:

bhends wrote:

sciacca wrote:171,000 wiretapes for Inter.

In case you were wondering, repeating something thousands of times doesn't make it true

Talk to the FIGC, Lega Calcio, Moggi's attoneries and the trial in Naples, then I'll take your word on it.

You keep saying 171k of wiretaps for Inter but you ARE YET TO SHOW ANY OFFICIAL STATEMENT THAT SAYS THAT, apperently its just in your head.


Sciacca a man who believes other human being was capable of making 468 calls per day

CroInter wrote:Sciacca a man who believes other human being was capable of making 468 per day

He did manage to write 3000 posts in a month so those numbers might appear normal to him

This is not a Calciopoli thread.

But for the record, Calciopoli is a farce that highlights the weakness (i am tempted to say corruption but I won't) of theItalian judical system. The number of infringments, inconsistancy, and major errors that should have susspended the trial is baffling. When evidence mysteriously disapears, the judge should not assume it to be unneccessary, he should susspend the trial until all evidence is retreaved.

I studid the whole case in Law school, so I am not speaking out from a hat here. I am not pointing any fingers, but the fact is that Calcipoli was a farce created by sensationalist media. As for the alleged 99% ref decisions going to juve. Don't be ridicilous. Juve did not need any favors with the team they had.

JuvenelCuore wrote:

mezzogiornese wrote:Abate should be NT. Theres plenty of talent but people are buying in foreign players.

Cassano likely to be sold by milan after just 6 months.

Rossi in Spain

Balotelli, Macheda + Borini in the EPL

Criscito wasting his life in Russia

Parolo at Cessena

Astori at Cagliari

Giovinco at Parma

Schelotto at Cesena

Not to mention all the primavera talent that goes unnoticed.

The talent is there. It just needs to be used + protected from foreign poachers.

E.G Lamela a player in a relegated Argentine squad being bought by Roma and Alvarez- A player who doesn't even make the first team half the time at inter. Why not have that same faith in Italian youths?

THANK YOU.

Like I said, I am not a hypocrite in saying Juventus is perfect because we let players go, and I often condemn my team and others.

For example, Ciro Immobile is in Juventus' primavera and was praised by Arsene Wenger one of the best youth scouts of all time, and he has been loaned year after year for four years. I would not complain if we had maybe David Villa, Cavani, Matri, Quagliarella on the squad but we were playing Amauri who did not score for a year and a half and sending away Immobile.

Juventus were not competing for the title, CL spot, or anything. We came seventh. Why could we not play some youth ?

That is the problem and you my friend share a similar view as myself. Kudos.

I keep saying that big teams need to have yung players play. Just take a risk damn it!!! instead we buy this foreigners and we teach them how to play

[quote="Superpeppe]I keep saying that big teams need to have yung players play. Just take a risk damn it!!! instead we buy this foreigners and we teach them how to play [/quote]

Exactly. I mean, AC Milan were fighting for the title until the last gameday so logically speaking they could not afford to necessarily play youth and risk games, but against smaller teams like Lecce or someone, I think they should be played. Or in the case of Juventus who unfortunately were not title contenders or contenders for a CL spot, we had no excuse to not play youth players.

edit: how do i delete this

JuvenelCuore wrote:[quote="Superpeppe]I keep saying that big teams need to have yung players play. Just take a risk damn it!!! instead we buy this foreigners and we teach them how to play

Exactly. I mean, AC Milan were fighting for the title until the last gameday so logically speaking they could not afford to necessarily play youth and risk games, but against smaller teams like Lecce or someone, I think they should be played. Or in the case of Juventus who unfortunately were not title contenders or contenders for a CL spot, we had no excuse to not play youth players.

milan couldnt afford to split and lose points because of an amature mistake
Juvi were in the run for the 4th CL spot for a 70% of the season and they were trying to cut their losses, while their coach was more concerned about keeping his job than the long term future of Serie A
IMO, mid table teams are more suited to produce young talent where there isnt alot of pressure on the players / coaches

zizzle wrote:

JuvenelCuore wrote:[quote="Superpeppe]I keep saying that big teams need to have yung players play. Just take a risk damn it!!! instead we buy this foreigners and we teach them how to play

Exactly. I mean, AC Milan were fighting for the title until the last gameday so logically speaking they could not afford to necessarily play youth and risk games, but against smaller teams like Lecce or someone, I think they should be played. Or in the case of Juventus who unfortunately were not title contenders or contenders for a CL spot, we had no excuse to not play youth players.

milan couldnt afford to split and lose points because of an amature mistake
Juvi we're in the run for the 4th spot for a 70% of the season and they were trying to cut their losses, and their coach was more worried about keeping his job than the long term future of Serie A
IMO, mid table teams are more suited to produce young talent where there isnt alot of pressure on the players / coaches[/quote]

I agree on the Milan bit.

I disagree on the Juventus part. When Quagliarella got injured, the season was over. What danger would we be in if we put in Boniperti or Giannetti as ST when we had NOBODY who was scoring. For like four games after not one attacker scored. What danger would it be to try some youth ?

Even in the last five-ten games of the season when we had no chance of making CL, why would we not play some youth ? We had nothing to lose.

Italian football is not dead...
Italian football is shit...

ChollaVille wrote:Italian football is not dead...
Italian football is shit...

I have to agree, your arguments are great.

What? How could my girlfriend be dead?

Its such a dumb discussion because the quality of the leages goes up and down. Right now we are seeing Serie A slowly coming back.

Lets say in 15 years its La liga or Premier League who has a downswing. Are we going to ask if they are dead? Or in 1000 years. Same discussion then?

Its called a downswing. There is a good chance that Serie A will be best league again within a 10 year period. Financial fair play rules will start a new era.

ChollaVille wrote:Italian football is not dead...
Italian football is shit...

really constructive post. did u read the op?

zizzle wrote:

JuvenelCuore wrote:[quote="Superpeppe]I keep saying that big teams need to have yung players play. Just take a risk damn it!!! instead we buy this foreigners and we teach them how to play

Exactly. I mean, AC Milan were fighting for the title until the last gameday so logically speaking they could not afford to necessarily play youth and risk games, but against smaller teams like Lecce or someone, I think they should be played. Or in the case of Juventus who unfortunately were not title contenders or contenders for a CL spot, we had no excuse to not play youth players.

milan couldnt afford to split and lose points because of an amature mistake
Juvi were in the run for the 4th CL spot for a 70% of the season and they were trying to cut their losses, while their coach was more concerned about keeping his job than the long term future of Serie A
IMO, mid table teams are more suited to produce young talent where there isnt alot of pressure on the players / coaches

While it is true that mid table team offer the most time for youth. Experience at the highest level is more challenging, hence more rewarding.

Let us look at the 2006 Italian national team first 11:
Player: top team (age he started for that top team)

Buffon: Juve (23)
Zambro: Juve (22)
Cannavaro: Napoli (19) "they were a top team then"
Matrix: Inter (26)
Grosso: Inter (27)
Gattuso: Milan (21)
Pirlo: Milan (22) "I am not putting his inter time because he was not trusted then"
Camoranesi: Juve (24)
Perrota: Roma (25)
Totti: Roma (16)
Toni: No one really trusted this guy much.

notice how that more than half of that squad were regulars in top teams before 25, and how that the key players were of those half.

Would Pirlo been as influental in Milan if not for first team experience, I don't think so.

Lord Spencer wrote:

zizzle wrote:

JuvenelCuore wrote:[quote="Superpeppe]I keep saying that big teams need to have yung players play. Just take a risk damn it!!! instead we buy this foreigners and we teach them how to play

Exactly. I mean, AC Milan were fighting for the title until the last gameday so logically speaking they could not afford to necessarily play youth and risk games, but against smaller teams like Lecce or someone, I think they should be played. Or in the case of Juventus who unfortunately were not title contenders or contenders for a CL spot, we had no excuse to not play youth players.

milan couldnt afford to split and lose points because of an amature mistake
Juvi were in the run for the 4th CL spot for a 70% of the season and they were trying to cut their losses, while their coach was more concerned about keeping his job than the long term future of Serie A
IMO, mid table teams are more suited to produce young talent where there isnt alot of pressure on the players / coaches

While it is true that mid table team offer the most time for youth. Experience at the highest level is more challenging, hence more rewarding.

Let us look at the 2006 Italian national team first 11:
Player: top team (age he started for that top team)

Buffon: Juve (23)
Zambro: Juve (22)
Cannavaro: Napoli (19) "they were a top team then"
Matrix: Inter (26)
Grosso: Inter (27)
Gattuso: Milan (21)
Pirlo: Milan (22) "I am not putting his inter time because he was not trusted then"
Camoranesi: Juve (24)
Perrota: Roma (25)
Totti: Roma (16)
Toni: No one really trusted this guy much.

notice how that more than half of that squad were regulars in top teams before 25, and how that the key players were of those half.

Would Pirlo been as influental in Milan if not for first team experience, I don't think so.

good point, but lets take a closer look at these players to see where they developed, excluding the ones who played for a big team after the age of 25 coz they are irrelevant to our discussion

Buffon- He's the Messi of Gks, moving on

Zambrotta: he played for juvi at the age of 22 but he played over 115 games for como and Bari before he earned his move to Juvi, and thats alot of experience

Cannavaro: 65 games for Napoli before going to the not very big Parma, sure they won the Uefa cup, but they were never going to complete with Juvi and Milan in the 90s

Gattuso: 10 games for perugia, 51 for rangers, and 25 for salernitata before he earned his move to Milan, again, thats over 85 games before he EARNED the move to milan

Pirlo: 59 games for brescia 31 for reggina and 38 games for Inter, so thats like 120 games before stepping up

Camoranisi: more than 100 games in south america and 50 with Verona before moving to Juvi

Totti: He was 25 when he won his first trophy with Roma. Clearly Roma wasnt a big team during his younger years, or at least they were not competing for major titles



so to conclude this, the players ur refering to were not developed by big teams, instead they were groomed in smaller clubs and bought by the bigger ones, and with the exception of Totti, you cant credit any of those big teams with developing them, after all, they were good enough (and experienced enough) to earn their places

Yes, that is true zizzle. But my point is this, would they have improved as much if they did not make the step up?

I don't see any 21 year old's getting the nod for any big clubs. I hope El Sharaawy get's playing time at Milan.

I see clubs being more reluctant to invest in a "Pirlo" when they can invest in a cheaper "Lamela". Italian mid table teams are inflating the prices of their Italian stars, and not all of them can be world class.

VibeTribe wrote:

CroInter wrote:Sciacca a man who believes other human being was capable of making 468 per day

He did manage to write 3000 posts in a month so those numbers might appear normal to him

Nice post. Pointless and off topic. I hear jealousy.

Italian football is not dead by a long shot. It is not at the strongest it has ever been, but it is still quite strong and one of the world's better league.

All big leagues go through a poor patch where the overall quality suffers from a slight reduction: Serie A is no different.

You say serie a is dead, I say Inter champions of 2010. You say Italian football is dead, I say undefeated and top of their group.

Pointless panic the media throws at you, think for yourselves people.

series a fans

zarola wrote:You say serie a is dead, I say Inter champions of 2010. You say Italian football is dead, I say undefeated and top of their group.

Pointless panic the media throws at you, think for yourselves people.

Inter was Argentinian + Brazilian.
Not Italian (except for Motta and Materazzi)

protesting a limit to foreign talent coming in ? Whatever happened to "giving Italian youth a chance?"

Lord Hispano wrote:

zarola wrote:You say serie a is dead, I say Inter champions of 2010. You say Italian football is dead, I say undefeated and top of their group.

Pointless panic the media throws at you, think for yourselves people.

Inter was Argentinian + Brazilian.
Not Italian (except for Motta and Materazzi)

can you name one top team that would seriously challenge for the ECL without forigners?
even Barca cant do it without Messi, alves, and co

zizzle wrote:

Lord Hispano wrote:

zarola wrote:You say serie a is dead, I say Inter champions of 2010. You say Italian football is dead, I say undefeated and top of their group.

Pointless panic the media throws at you, think for yourselves people.

Inter was Argentinian + Brazilian.
Not Italian (except for Motta and Materazzi)

can you name one top team that would seriously challenge for the ECL without forigners?
even Barca cant do it without Messi, alves, and co

me thinks barcelona are one team that can actually challenge the ECL without foreigners. Of course they willl have to get reinforcements in some positions but surely they can. I mean spain won the WC, so i dont think the CL will be a problem

this was OT though.

JuvenelCuore wrote:

BiasedMilanFan3 wrote:Meh
As long as Milan keep winning i'll be cool with Serie A

You won one trophy since 2004. Slow your roll.

Cl+cwc+scudetto=1?