AGREE or DISAGREE: "Italian football is dead." - Luciano Moggi

by JuvenelCuore Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:07 pm

Former Juventus director Luciano Moggi has accused FIGC president Giancarlo Abete of "killing Italian football" as he launches a sharp sting on the powers that be.

His attack follows on from Inter striker Mario Balotelli's agent Mino Raiola, who claimed Abete should resign from his post at the helm of the Calcio tree.

He even claimed Balotelli would boycott Serie A because of measures Abete introduced which limits foreign transfers.

And Moggi has taken his argument even deeper in his Tuttomercatoweb.com comment column.

"Shooting at Abete now would be like taking the last brick away from a house that has fallen," Moggi blasted.

"Italian football is rebelling against absurd decisions from one man that is slowly killing our football.

"Euro 2012, Euro 2016, [Sepp] Blatter that gives the World Cup presentation to [Patrick] Vieira, [Roberto] Donadoni's flop at the Euro 2008, failure in South Africa. Is that not enough? No.

"We also had to add the fact that we changed coach of the national team while one was still in position. These were suicidal and illogical strategies.

"Italian football has had enough of Abete, not me who is in the past, but the football league and its 20 presidents. Someone please save us."

I agree with that statement. Does anyone else agree or on the flip-side, disagree ?

Reasons why:

- Lazio and Napoli are two "newer" teams to recently become a top Serie A side in the Serie A and Napoli have even achieved accolades such as qualifying for the Champion's League for the first time in 21 years. Their biggest players are who ? On Lazio I'd say Hernanes and Zarate, both non-Italian. On Napoli, it's Cavani, Lavezzi, and Hamsik who are also not Italian.

Yes, they have immense Italians such as Mauri, Maggio, Cannavaro, etc. but they are all fairly aged, not a lot, but they are closer to the end of their careers than they are to the start of their careers.

- Transfers of teams are mostly foreigners as of now, even Juventus are victims of it. Sides like Milan and Inter are also mainly filled with non-Italian stars such as Ibrahimovic, Robinho, Pato, Thiago Silva, Sneijder, Maicon, Lucio, Eto'o. They have some Italians, but upon further examination, there is clear evidence that it was not a developed system; Thiago Motta just became Italian recently, Pazzini was bought, as was Cassano, as was Ranocchia (50%).

- The contribution to Gli Azzurri is also heavily one-sided with Juventus supplying a lot of players. Inter and Milan collectively supply roughly four Italians, while Roma only supply one for a total of five. Fiorentina supply another two while Palermo supply another two as well for a total of nine-players.

Juventus supply Buffon, Chiellini, Bonucci, Pirlo (I understand he was also bought and thus not developed), Marchisio, Matri, Quagliarella, Giovinco (50% ours), with even Pepe and Motta earning some call-ups. It appears that Juventus seem to be the only side out of the big seven above us and including us that really seem to uphold their contribution to the National Side.

I don't think this is because we simply do not have enough Italian talent to really place the in the first team, I think it is for other reasons. As Moggi said, the FIGC is to blame partly. They recently allowed for a second non-EU transfer to arrive for Italian teams, and I think this is doing more bad then it is good, really. I won't get into Calciopoli too much because the direction it will head is obvious, but that more or less killed Italian football for the most part.

I think it is crucial that teams start to improve themselves by incorporating their primavera players (who are, for the most part, almost all Italian) into their squads if we want to see a good and competitive Italian squad.

by zizzle Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:16 pm

soon as Juvi are back to the top we'll see less and less italians in their line up. lets face it, this generation of italian players is simply not good enough

by Raptorgunner Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:21 pm

I have to agree sadly.

by JuvenelCuore Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:22 pm

zizzle wrote:soon as Juvi are back to the top we'll see less and less italians in their line up. lets face it, this generation of italian players is simply not good enough

Do you really think so though ? I think we are not giving credit where it is merited, or even experimenting to say the least. I am not being hypocritical in pointing the finger at everybody besides Juventus because I believe we have a top three, at the very least a top five academy, yet we do not utilize it the way we should.

Can you honestly saying this generation is not good enough based on a full knowledge of youth academies and what not, or is that statement simply because their names are not being linked with clubs and they are not on the first team ? I am sincerely asking this ... not trying to attack you or your knowledge, but the majority of people I have spoken to who said that are usually saying it based on what they see not what they know.

by InterMalia Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:37 pm

Mino Raiola is a hyena looking out for his bread. His statement is from last summer when the FIGC introduced the 1 player quota. Balo never said anything about that, why would he? He's got nothing to do with it.
Italian football is alive and winning, it's italian talents that are missing. The worst generation italy have seen probably.

A sitting person can find wrestling easy is a an east african proverb. What would they mighty football guru suggest?...nothing? exactly.

by Giuvitojuve Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:40 pm

Dead has a permanence to it that is just not fitting in the terms of football. It isn't where it was, and it will probably return one day perhaps sooner, and perhaps later.

That is the truth of the matter.

Some would argue football isn't what it was too. Who knows. Really isn't a poll option that expresses my views on the topic, so I'll abstain from that.

by JuvenelCuore Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:45 pm

InterMalia wrote:Mino Raiola is a hyena looking out for his bread. His statement is from last summer when the FIGC introduced the 1 player quota. Balo never said anything about that, why would he? He's got nothing to do with it.
Italian football is alive and winning, it's italian talents that are missing. The worst generation italy have seen probably.

A sitting person can find wrestling easy is a an east african proverb. What would they mighty football guru suggest?...nothing? exactly.

I do not favor or like Raiola either, but his comments were not really what I was addressing. To be fair to Moggi, look what he did for Italy in 2006. As he said, he gave Italy 10 squad players and a coach to lead Gli Azzurri to their fourth World Cup. He did well and he knew what to do.

@Giu: I agree with your statement, perhaps "dead" was not the best term to use both practically and literally, however Moggi does raise some very good points that need addressing.

by sydneyfc4dawinbruz Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:47 pm

Maybe you should have taken the europa league seriously

by zizzle Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:49 pm

JuvenelCuore wrote:
zizzle wrote:soon as Juvi are back to the top we'll see less and less italians in their line up. lets face it, this generation of italian players is simply not good enough

Do you really think so though ? I think we are not giving credit where it is merited, or even experimenting to say the least. I am not being hypocritical in pointing the finger at everybody besides Juventus because I believe we have a top three, at the very least a top five academy, yet we do not utilize it the way we should.

Can you honestly saying this generation is not good enough based on a full knowledge of youth academies and what not, or is that statement simply because their names are not being linked with clubs and they are not on the first team ? I am sincerely asking this ... not trying to attack you or your knowledge, but the majority of people I have spoken to who said that are usually saying it based on what they see not what they know.

i have no knowledge of what goes on in academies but i have reasons to back up my statement. Ill repeate, this generation of italian footballers is not good enough ! The first and the most important reason is that italian players and coaches are more suited for the football of 10 years ago but not todays, and for a country that had world class CBs and Trequartista ON THE BENCH to be lacking in these 2 position now aday says alot

The typical italian defender is not very athletic, not very fast, and not very strong, but they read the game like no other, their positioning and awareness is top notch, and they posses the tactical knowledge that surpasses that of english managers, but today, with the game becoming faster and faster, those qualities are no longer useful, yet italian academies have done little to produce modern strong athletic CBs and still do it the old way.

Same thing applies for trequartistas ! del piero is slow, baggio was slow, totti isnt that fast and so was Zola, these players did great in a slower game but the qualities that made those players legends are not useful today

modern football requires a Messi not baggio and italy is lacking in the messi departmant

by El Chelsea Fuerte Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:49 pm

Italy has football?

AGREE or DISAGREE: "Italian football is dead." - Luciano Moggi 20110128203738!Trollface

by JuvenelCuore Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:56 pm

zizzle wrote:
JuvenelCuore wrote:
zizzle wrote:soon as Juvi are back to the top we'll see less and less italians in their line up. lets face it, this generation of italian players is simply not good enough

Do you really think so though ? I think we are not giving credit where it is merited, or even experimenting to say the least. I am not being hypocritical in pointing the finger at everybody besides Juventus because I believe we have a top three, at the very least a top five academy, yet we do not utilize it the way we should.

Can you honestly saying this generation is not good enough based on a full knowledge of youth academies and what not, or is that statement simply because their names are not being linked with clubs and they are not on the first team ? I am sincerely asking this ... not trying to attack you or your knowledge, but the majority of people I have spoken to who said that are usually saying it based on what they see not what they know.

i have no knowledge of what goes on in academies but i have reasons to back up my statement. Ill repeate, this generation of italian footballers is not good enough ! The first and the most important reason is that italian players and coaches are more suited for the football of 10 years ago but not todays, and for a country that had world class CBs and Trequartista ON THE BENCH to be lacking in these 2 position now aday says alot

The typical italian defender is not very athletic, not very fast, and not very strong, but they read the game like no other, their positioning and awareness is top notch, and they posses the tactical knowledge that surpasses that of english managers, but today, with the game becoming faster and faster, those qualities are no longer useful, yet italian academies have done little to produce modern strong athletic CBs and still do it the old way.

Same thing applies for trequartistas ! del piero is slow, baggio was slow, totti isnt that fast and so was Zola, these players did great in a slower game but the qualities that made those players legends are not useful today

modern football requires a Messi not baggio and italy is lacking in the messi departmant

I cannot argue or refute a lot of what you have said, you certainly do have a knowledge of previous and present styles of Italian football and I applaud you for that, and also for engaging in a good debate.

It is perhaps a matter of starting from the bottom in the academies and adjusting the focus to meet current footballing standards which will hopefully result in a boost of players. Spain and Germany notably are enjoying the kind of success that I hope Italia will revert back to with great youth coming up through the ranks and in the case of Spain, a worldclass squad which sees someone like Fabregas for God's sake sitting on the bench alongside Valdes.

by Ali Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:00 pm

english_jewel wrote:Italy has football?

AGREE or DISAGREE: "Italian football is dead." - Luciano Moggi Trolll10

by El Chelsea Fuerte Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:16 pm

ali8775 wrote:
english_jewel wrote:Italy has football?

Isn't that why you put troll face?!!

by mezzogiornese Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:27 pm

Let's just have a little look at current Italian NT players and rate them individually.

Buffon- World Class
Abate- Approaching World Class
Chielini- World Class
Bonucci- Dissapointing season- but could soon be world class
Ranocchia- Same as Bonucci
Astori- Good Defender
Cassani- Great Player
Balzaretti- Great Player
DDR- World Class
Aquilani- Good Player
Montolivo- Good player
Marchiso - Good player
Cassano- World Class
Rossi- World Class
Matri- Great overlooked Striker
Pazzini Great underestimated striker
Balotelli- Tipped to be World Class

As you can see- All that's missing is creativity in the centre of the park and Wide Players.

And who's coming through now? Just two players tipped to be world class at young ages for example.

Poli- Creative
El Sharaawy- Wide Player

Moggi should just shut his mouth and get another job. He's not helping the confidence of the NT or youngsters coming through. The fact is there's been so much wasted talent in the last 4 years. Giovinco Cassano and Rossi are just 3 examples.

However its only natural for a NT to decline after a great victory like in 2006.

The NT will be back for the euros, and should have better individual players than 2006 in it by the world cup. (The team won because it was a fantastic team)

by Ali Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:31 pm

@english ...blatant means done openly, which means despite putting the troll face or not, you were trolling.... and it was pathetic. AGREE or DISAGREE: "Italian football is dead." - Luciano Moggi 20110128203738!Trollface

by JuvenelCuore Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:45 pm

mezzogiornese wrote:Let's just have a little look at current Italian NT players and rate them individually.

Buffon- World Class
Abate- Approaching World Class
Chielini- World Class
Bonucci- Dissapointing season- but could soon be world class
Ranocchia- Same as Bonucci
Astori- Good Defender
Cassani- Great Player
Balzaretti- Great Player
DDR- World Class
Aquilani- Good Player
Montolivo- Good player
Marchiso - Good player
Cassano- World Class
Rossi- World Class
Matri- Great overlooked Striker
Pazzini Great underestimated striker
Balotelli- Tipped to be World Class

As you can see- All that's missing is creativity in the centre of the park and Wide Players.

And who's coming through now? Just two players tipped to be world class at young ages for example.

Poli- Creative
El Sharaawy- Wide Player

Moggi should just shut his mouth and get another job. He's not helping the confidence of the NT or youngsters coming through. The fact is there's been so much wasted talent in the last 4 years. Giovinco Cassano and Rossi are just 3 examples.

However its only natural for a NT to decline after a great victory like in 2006.

The NT will be back for the euros, and should have better individual players than 2006 in it by the world cup. (The team won because it was a fantastic team)

Abate is not a NT player, but that is minor. Moggi is correct, so I do not see what you are saying there. The points are expressed in my first post; teams are gravitating towards foreign talent that is utilized to advance their domestic squads but not the national team. Ideally, I would like to see a combination of the two, wherefore homegrown talent composes the domestic team's starting XI and contributes to the NT when international play resumes.

by Art Morte Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:51 pm

JuvenelCuore wrote:

He even claimed Balotelli would boycott Serie A because of measures Abete introduced which limits foreign transfers.

I agree with that statement. Does anyone else agree or on the flip-side, disagree ?

Reasons why:

I don't think this is because we simply do not have enough Italian talent to really place the in the first team, I think it is for other reasons. As Moggi said, the FIGC is to blame partly. They recently allowed for a second non-EU transfer to arrive for Italian teams, and I think this is doing more bad then it is good, really.

I think he's saying that that non-EU player limit is a negative thing. Which I think it is, you need foreign talent in your league for it to remain a top league. And most Italians play in Serie A, so it's good for them that the league's level remains high.

I agree with Zizzle, this generation of italian players doesn't look "good enough" (whatever one means by that) to me. But we know that Italy has got a lot of players, a lot of people in every generation playing football, so it's probably the coaching system that needs to be examined the most.

by Art Morte Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:59 pm

JuvenelCuore wrote:
The points are expressed in my first post; teams are gravitating towards foreign talent that is utilized to advance their domestic squads but not the national team. Ideally, I would like to see a combination of the two, wherefore homegrown talent composes the domestic team's starting XI and contributes to the NT when international play resumes.

Well, that's how it should work but only unforced.

A team like Real Madrid or Manchester United contribute a handful of players to Spain's and England's NTs respectively, but none of that is forced. All those players are genueinly good enough for their club teams, the fact that they're good enough for their NTs is just a by-product, imo.

Italy doesn't need highly restrictive limits like the only-two-non-eu-players limit, they need better players who simply will be at the same level with that foreign talent - like in Spain, for instance. Italy has got the numbers and talent, this we know because they have always had them, but it seems that their coaching and training might have fallen off the pace of some countries.

I could be wrong, but this is how I see it.

by JuvenelCuore Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:01 pm

Art Morte wrote:
JuvenelCuore wrote:

He even claimed Balotelli would boycott Serie A because of measures Abete introduced which limits foreign transfers.

I agree with that statement. Does anyone else agree or on the flip-side, disagree ?

Reasons why:

I don't think this is because we simply do not have enough Italian talent to really place the in the first team, I think it is for other reasons. As Moggi said, the FIGC is to blame partly. They recently allowed for a second non-EU transfer to arrive for Italian teams, and I think this is doing more bad then it is good, really.

I think he's saying that that non-EU player limit is a negative thing. Which I think it is, you need foreign talent in your league for it to remain a top league. And most Italians play in Serie A, so it's good for them that the league's level remains high.

I agree with Zizzle, this generation of italian players doesn't look "good enough" (whatever one means by that) to me. But we know that Italy has got a lot of players, a lot of people in every generation playing football, so it's probably the coaching system that needs to be examined the most.

I agree with you, as you do raise a good point but the answer is surely for clubs to have a mix between the best foreigners and a core of homegrown Italians. During the three-foreigner rule era in the late 1980s and early 1990s, Serie A ruled the world and the Azzurri were the most talented and impressive team at Euro '88 and World Cup 1990 - albeit failing to win either tournament.

Foreigners are a must to improve Serie A and its Italian starlets, but if they dominate in a similar way to the Premier League then the Azzurri risk a future as bleak as the English national team.

by mezzogiornese Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:08 pm

Abate should be NT. Theres plenty of talent but people are buying in foreign players.

Cassano likely to be sold by milan after just 6 months.

Rossi in Spain

Balotelli, Macheda + Borini in the EPL

Criscito wasting his life in Russia

Parolo at Cessena

Astori at Cagliari

Giovinco at Parma

Schelotto at Cesena

Not to mention all the primavera talent that goes unnoticed.

The talent is there. It just needs to be used + protected from foreign poachers.

E.G Lamela a player in a relegated Argentine squad being bought by Roma and Alvarez- A player who doesn't even make the first team half the time at inter. Why not have that same faith in Italian youths?

by zizzle Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:13 pm

mezzogiornese wrote:Abate should be NT. Theres plenty of talent but people are buying in foreign players.

Cassano likely to be sold by milan after just 6 months.

Rossi in Spain

Balotelli, Macheda + Borini in the EPL

Criscito wasting his life in Russia

Parolo at Cessena

Astori at Cagliari

Giovinco at Parma

Schelotto at Cesena

Not to mention all the primavera talent that goes unnoticed.

The talent is there. It just needs to be used + protected from foreign poachers.

E.G Lamela a player in a relegated Argentine squad being bought by Roma and Alvarez- A player who doesn't even make the first team half the time at inter. Why not have that same faith in Italian youths?

well, italian players are expensive compared to forigners, after all inter is paying 5-6 M for jonathan but they'de have to pay double that amount for cassani for example

by JuvenelCuore Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:16 pm

mezzogiornese wrote:Abate should be NT. Theres plenty of talent but people are buying in foreign players.

Cassano likely to be sold by milan after just 6 months.

Rossi in Spain

Balotelli, Macheda + Borini in the EPL

Criscito wasting his life in Russia

Parolo at Cessena

Astori at Cagliari

Giovinco at Parma

Schelotto at Cesena

Not to mention all the primavera talent that goes unnoticed.

The talent is there. It just needs to be used + protected from foreign poachers.

E.G Lamela a player in a relegated Argentine squad being bought by Roma and Alvarez- A player who doesn't even make the first team half the time at inter. Why not have that same faith in Italian youths?

THANK YOU.

Like I said, I am not a hypocrite in saying Juventus is perfect because we let players go, and I often condemn my team and others.

For example, Ciro Immobile is in Juventus' primavera and was praised by Arsene Wenger one of the best youth scouts of all time, and he has been loaned year after year for four years. I would not complain if we had maybe David Villa, Cavani, Matri, Quagliarella on the squad but we were playing Amauri who did not score for a year and a half and sending away Immobile.

Juventus were not competing for the title, CL spot, or anything. We came seventh. Why could we not play some youth ?

That is the problem and you my friend share a similar view as myself. Kudos.

by Arquitecto Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:42 pm

LOL. Moggi at it again huh? The man has turned old, bitter and cynical as half of his statements are ridiculous to begin with and to be taken with a ton of salt. He should now retire from the press as he seems to remind me of Redknapp with his love affair with the media.

Italian football is far from dead as if his aging brain looked closer, he would have seen that if anything, Calcio is in fact on the rise and quite rapidly.

Questions? Go ahead and ask.

by JuvenelCuore Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:50 pm

@Arquitecto: you've made some pretty bold statements regarding Italian football ... explain ?

And in terms of Moggi, you have to sympathize with him. He was wrongly banned and disgraced and forced out of football ... he has a column that he writes weekly and he appears on some television shows as an analyst; what is a poor man to do ?

by Lord Awesome Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:32 pm

So let me get this staright............

Brits beat Italians for a couple of seasons and now Italians think their football is dead? The best players for some Italian teams aren't Italian. So what? Look at your NT. Don't look dead to me.

Point is, I think there's some overreaction amongst some here. Italian Football, just like all the other major footballing powers are simply staying the same while the rest of the world keeps growing. Look back 10 years, Mexico only had one trophy to brag about, now it's three. Spain was always the "almost" team now they have a WC. Africa used to be just Cameroon and Nigeria now you have like 10 competitive teams.

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