Stoke City vs Liverpool FC || January 12th

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Post by Arquitecto January 14th 2014, 13:07

Red Alert wrote:
Arquitescu wrote:Not happy with this performance at all.

Yes it may be Brittania and we had never won there before in the history of the Premier League yet our tactics were symbolic.

Our defence continues to be like silly putty as Glen Johnson once again continues his meteoric decline in an average performance in attack and failure to position himself multiple times during the game. Aside from his wonderful chested touch from a Gerrard cross, he has failed to replicate the dynamic and skilled RB that he was and his attitude is even worse. Was awful vs Arnautovic. I yearn for Kelly or anyone else to start over this man, he is not up to the task.

Martin Skrtel, who people fail to see what an average CB he has become, once again was positionally at fault for 2 of the 3 goals and is a disaster waiting to happen. He attempts to defend as if he reads the game (anticipating the attacker, Italian style turn and point) yet he has no vision outside a single attacker. Outside last-ditch situations, he only causes our line to be compromised and further instills why Agger is almost twice the CB that he is.

Toure was at fault for one goal yet remained positionally sound throughout, as this serves testament to what I've seen; an all-round consistent season for him.


Cissokho was awful. No surprise there.


Most interesting point was the Lucas-Gerrard combination in which Lucas was given almost infinite freedom to attack while Gerrard played an almost sweeper role very similar to Leonardo Bonnuci of Juventus. I quite enjoyed Gerrard's attempt to reinvent himself as despite the few odd stray passes he was defensive sound, frequently dropping as the 3rd CB while his overlook vision of the field in his crosses on both sides were excellent. Lucas failed because due to his freedom, he was not attuned to tracking back and as we know, he is offensively non-existent in his technique; which is why I failed to see the point of Lucas in such an unfamiliar role.

Henderson was near anonymous, as expected to be within the return of a dominant Gerrard. He had no idea nor was given a clear idea of his role and was rather disappointing in possession.

Coutinho was influential yet continues to be one of the worst finishers in the final third, somehow finding an uncanny ability to shoot straight at the GK no matter what the angle.

We were completely overrun in the midfield by Stoke,  with Charlie Adam pulling the strings for them. Adam choose mostly to occupy the right side in order to cut into his favoured left foot, in essence failing to properly link the midfield to attack for Stoke, yet succeeded in late runs into the box, allowing much space for him to navigate his passes. I feel he had a decent career in Liverpool (first half) yet proved not worthy enough given his Hollywood play. Nevertheless I always liked him for what he can produce and the classy manner in which he left Liverpool. Glad to see him as Stoke's finest player this season.

We won 3-5 yet our continual failure to shut down an average Stoke attack was the bane of our existence. Not only we fell asleep in dire complacency when in the lead yet we cannot be troubled so much by this average team, no matter what stadium we are in.

Our saviour from the reignited partnership of SAS saved our hinds; while fortune was also on our side during the ordeal.

Nice to note what a difference Sturridge makes in our system, providing the direct thrust to lead our line and providing Suarez a near telepathic link to compliment his indirect navigation.

Would opt for Sterling to be dropped to make presence for Sturridge if our attack needs to be sacrificed.

What I am happy about is our reaction to each of the goals yet Stoke's defence was non-existent in talent or tactics.

We must improve ourselves defensively and drop some players who do not deserve to start, namely in the defence.


I swear to god if I wrote this post, they'd be 1,000 replies calling me a pessimist.  Laughing 

Anyway, I disagree with the parts in bold.

Glen Johnson whilst out of form, is still our best fullback.

And you've mixed it up. Skrtel was at fault for one goal (Adam's) and Kolo was at fault for the other 2.

Also, disappointed to see the constant attacks on Skrtel. They're not true either. Skrtel is pretty much playing as a sweeper type for us, so his job in the team is to do those "last-ditch" tackles. He's having a very similar season in 11/12, where he was voted our best CB and you were praising him week in week out. What happened? Are there any examples of him being a disaster waiting to happen? I'm sure someone's going to bring up the pulling in defence, but the best CB in the league in Kompany does them too. They both have to cut them out, but most of the time the attacker is pulling Skrtel as well. That's why there's no penalties being given.  

There is no way Agger is "twice" the better the defender. It's arguable that he's JUST better than him as a defender. Yes, he reads the game better, but he's not that great in the air, loses 1 on 1s regularly, he continuously heads the ball back into dangerous positions, gets dominated when he has to vs anyone with decent power/pace, and has lapses in concentrations on a regularly basis. He's not the same defender as he once was.

Skrtel and Toure have never worked, and I doubt they ever will. Sakho should come back in the next game, so we'll improve defensively.

Glen Johnson will be called our best fullback when we don't exactly have much competition in this current injury crisis on that department. He has relinquished literally every facet of his previous game into a slow, cumbersome and ponderous on the ball fullback who screams of liability. He's been out of form for over a a year now, that to me is more like a decline than out of form.

I appreciate Skrtel over Toure because he actually adheres to his role rather than playing a role out of his depth, to which Skrtel has done awfully. I enjoy that Toure is less reactive than Skrtel who is only fit reading one attacker at a time, essentially not screening the attack but sticking on his man. Statistically we are better with Agger as our backline has more composure within precarious moments as well.


Skrtel-Toure? Agree as it will never work, plays like square pegs in round holes.

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Post by Red Alert January 16th 2014, 01:48

Something has been wrong with GJ this season, I don't know what it is, it might be his contract issue or it might be fitness but he's not on the decline, well I don't think he is. You have to remember he's never really been rested here. He's playing every game when fit. It could really be down to fatigue. He's only missed games with "illness" this season. He was solid in at the start of the season before his injury, and then has just looked out of it since he's been back. Could be down to him being rushed back, I don't know.
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Post by Helmer January 16th 2014, 12:43

Red Alert wrote:
Arquitescu wrote:Not happy with this performance at all.

Yes it may be Brittania and we had never won there before in the history of the Premier League yet our tactics were symbolic.

Our defence continues to be like silly putty as Glen Johnson once again continues his meteoric decline in an average performance in attack and failure to position himself multiple times during the game. Aside from his wonderful chested touch from a Gerrard cross, he has failed to replicate the dynamic and skilled RB that he was and his attitude is even worse. Was awful vs Arnautovic. I yearn for Kelly or anyone else to start over this man, he is not up to the task.

Martin Skrtel, who people fail to see what an average CB he has become, once again was positionally at fault for 2 of the 3 goals and is a disaster waiting to happen. He attempts to defend as if he reads the game (anticipating the attacker, Italian style turn and point) yet he has no vision outside a single attacker. Outside last-ditch situations, he only causes our line to be compromised and further instills why Agger is almost twice the CB that he is.

Toure was at fault for one goal yet remained positionally sound throughout, as this serves testament to what I've seen; an all-round consistent season for him.


Cissokho was awful. No surprise there.


Most interesting point was the Lucas-Gerrard combination in which Lucas was given almost infinite freedom to attack while Gerrard played an almost sweeper role very similar to Leonardo Bonnuci of Juventus. I quite enjoyed Gerrard's attempt to reinvent himself as despite the few odd stray passes he was defensive sound, frequently dropping as the 3rd CB while his overlook vision of the field in his crosses on both sides were excellent. Lucas failed because due to his freedom, he was not attuned to tracking back and as we know, he is offensively non-existent in his technique; which is why I failed to see the point of Lucas in such an unfamiliar role.

Henderson was near anonymous, as expected to be within the return of a dominant Gerrard. He had no idea nor was given a clear idea of his role and was rather disappointing in possession.

Coutinho was influential yet continues to be one of the worst finishers in the final third, somehow finding an uncanny ability to shoot straight at the GK no matter what the angle.

We were completely overrun in the midfield by Stoke,  with Charlie Adam pulling the strings for them. Adam choose mostly to occupy the right side in order to cut into his favoured left foot, in essence failing to properly link the midfield to attack for Stoke, yet succeeded in late runs into the box, allowing much space for him to navigate his passes. I feel he had a decent career in Liverpool (first half) yet proved not worthy enough given his Hollywood play. Nevertheless I always liked him for what he can produce and the classy manner in which he left Liverpool. Glad to see him as Stoke's finest player this season.

We won 3-5 yet our continual failure to shut down an average Stoke attack was the bane of our existence. Not only we fell asleep in dire complacency when in the lead yet we cannot be troubled so much by this average team, no matter what stadium we are in.

Our saviour from the reignited partnership of SAS saved our hinds; while fortune was also on our side during the ordeal.

Nice to note what a difference Sturridge makes in our system, providing the direct thrust to lead our line and providing Suarez a near telepathic link to compliment his indirect navigation.

Would opt for Sterling to be dropped to make presence for Sturridge if our attack needs to be sacrificed.

What I am happy about is our reaction to each of the goals yet Stoke's defence was non-existent in talent or tactics.

We must improve ourselves defensively and drop some players who do not deserve to start, namely in the defence.


I swear to god if I wrote this post, they'd be 1,000 replies calling me a pessimist.  Laughing 

Well I dont wanna come up with this again. So I will just clear it once. The difference is we realise that 'Rome was not built in one day' so we are ready to give time to BR and co. to build this slower, not slating them each and every time when a crow shits. It is not that we are noobs that we dont realise or see what you talk about. Sometimes we talk more about positive stuff/the stuff which has been improving compared to our last few seasons. For example, we won for the first time at Britannia. You highlight too much of negative things as if we are constantly finishing top 3/2 in last few seasons and all we have been left with is improving those small things which will make us better to fight for league or something. In fact I was the one who has agreed with you few times about the way we are playing. So when we kept winning 1-0 or 5-3 win at Stoke, I thought let's forget the bad stuff for now and celebrate this win. If you see, I try to point out few things from the last match in the coming prematch thread.

So calma and dont take it as if we are trying to single you out or something. Probably it is just beocoming fun now  tongue 

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Post by Red Alert January 17th 2014, 07:59

I'm not waiting a millenium for Rome to get built. It'll take time, I understand that. I've not once stated Rodgers is going to get sacked / deserved to get sacked. I've posted numerous times that Rodgers is the right man for the job. That doesn't mean we just not turn up in 3/4 of the games on the road because we're 'behind' other teams.

I've not once stated nor assumed anyone here is a "noob" on this section. I've continuosly attacked our away form because no ones speaking up.

Honestly, look at Arqs post. And then look at my post. I stated I'm happy to get the points, and that I'm happy with the result, and attacked the performance. Arq did the same thing. The difference? I had 10 different people on my back, one of them being you, not one person quoted Arq calling him a pessimist or anything. Clearly an agenda going around.

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Post by RedOranje January 17th 2014, 08:24

Perhaps it could be related to you INCESSANT negativity whereas Arq has also made a number of posts speaking positively.

People don't have some agenda. We're not out to get you. The perception that you're negative towards the squad/player(s)/manager/whatever are entirely of your own doing.
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Post by Red Alert January 17th 2014, 08:36

I was criticized even when I "spoke positively" and said our away form was a concern (now stating/confirming it's horrible) at the start of the season...

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Post by RedOranje January 17th 2014, 09:23

Because you pay some lip service in a line or two and then spent paragraphs complaining... and now you're just full of pompous "I told you so"s. You can't possibly not recognize where the responses are coming from, can you?
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Post by Red Alert January 17th 2014, 11:08

Which is with all due respect, bull shit.

Me stating I'm happy Liverpool managed to get 3 points is lip service? Really?

Complaining? Stop, please. This is a forum. I get my idea's across in this forum, just as you do, just as we've all done since the lithium/goal.com/GoalLegacy forums. If me getting my point across is just me "complaining" where again, I've tried to discuss my issues with people but they haven't wanted to reply, then so be it. I think my "complaints" are true. I haven't exactly been proving wrong thus far.

And where in the hell have I ever gloat about being "right" ffs? I've stated some people have started to agree with me, but that's only because they were calling me a pessimist a few days before they accepted what I had to say.
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Post by Helmer January 17th 2014, 12:08

Stoke City vs Liverpool FC || January 12th - Page 4 Winning.gif.pagespeed.ce.6eGXTAoZ6n

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Post by Fahim89 January 17th 2014, 12:18

And here i entered the thread to see us talk about the Stoke win!!

Silly me!!!  :facepalm: 
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Post by mr-r34 January 17th 2014, 14:56

Honestly this is only an issue because you guys make it one, if everyone just got over it and learned to agree to disagree we wouldn't be at this point. Differences of options should be welcomed, whats the point if we all wrote the same shit, everybody has a different viewpoint, accept it and move on.

P.S We did play shit in a number of games away from home, i think the easy home games and the hard away games have made it look like our away form has been terrible as hell.

Predicting the second half of the season we'll get more points away than at home, quote me on that one at the end of the season.
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Post by RedOranje January 17th 2014, 22:05

You're right. It's obviously EVERYONE ELSE that has the issue/agenda/whatever and certainly not YOU that may have be at the center.
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Post by McAgger January 17th 2014, 22:17

mr-r34 wrote:Honestly this is only an issue because you guys make it one, if everyone just got over it and learned to agree to disagree we wouldn't be at this point. Differences of options should be welcomed, whats the point if we all wrote the same shit, everybody has a different viewpoint, accept it and move on.

P.S We did play shit in a number of games away from home, i think the easy home games and the hard away games have made it look like our away form has been terrible as hell.

Predicting the second half of the season we'll get more points away than at home, quote me on that one at the end of the season.  

+1, agree with everything
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Post by Red Alert January 18th 2014, 10:34

RedOranje wrote:You're right.  It's obviously EVERYONE ELSE that has the issue/agenda/whatever and certainly not YOU that may have be at the center.

Nah, I'm wrong, you're definitely right. After all, I'm the one going around telling everyone else their posts are either negative or complaints and should stop posting just because I disagree with them. Definitely me. I apologise.
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