FC Barcelona - Celtic | Champions League Group H | Wed Dec 11th, 2013

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Post by jibers Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:22 pm

I get what futbol is trying to say, he has come across as a bit nasty though. I still stand by it when i say Tito was a pretty crap coach. Even at the start of the season where he was 'fine' there was no mf rotation and Messi was basically the reason Barcelona were winning.

I think now people can see that it was Pep that made Barcelona play that way. Problem is that a lot of Barcelona fans want the team to play the way they did under Pep. It's not going to happen. Tata will instill his own ideas and he needs a fresher squad, but as usually that fat sack of shit Zubi will do *bleep* all.

Awkward situation for the club.

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Post by windkick Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:53 am

SO...

Lets discuss Celtic now please
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Post by Khaled Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:44 pm

I just want Tata to try this:

Alexis PEDRO Neymar
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:52 pm

Why? Alexis and Neymar are both many times more qualified to play CF than Pedro.
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Post by danyjr Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:38 am

Vilanova's team played a very monotone style of football that was predictable with no surprise element. His ideas of signing players, such as Song and Alba are among the most questionable transfers I've seen in the club - especially signing Song to play as CB. You sometimes wonder if the guy ever watched Song play CB or even DM at all.

For me Vilanova was an average coach with no balls and in terms of big match performances his poor record is there for everyone to see. He may have been a good trainer but he was not a coach who'd do strong team talks or motivate his players. Messi single handedly won him quite a few important matches.

In terms of comparisons with Martino I never really rated Tata back in Argentina and I still don't. Having said that, I'm sure if he's allowed to have his own squad he'll build a competitive team with a good chance in CL because right now I don't see Barça winning against the likes of Bayern or Arsenal. In the end, though, Tata's a student of Bielsa, and since I don't rate the master I won't rate the disciple either.

Personally the closest team to the peak Barça I've seen is Sampaoli's Chile:

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Post by windkick Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:56 am

Khaled wrote:I just want Tata to try this:

Alexis PEDRO Neymar

Dafaq?
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Post by CBarca Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:32 am

Yeah I'm not sure about that one either...

Hopefully this will be on tomorrow and I maybe able to record it. Knowing my luck, I doubt it.
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Post by Winter is Coming Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:50 am

I heard Neymar will be playing in the center tomorrow?
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:39 am

danyjr wrote:In terms of comparisons with Martino I never really rated Tata back in Argentina and I still don't. Having said that, I'm sure if he's allowed to have his own squad he'll build a competitive team with a good chance in CL because right now I don't see Barça winning against the likes of Bayern or Arsenal. In the end, though, Tata's a student of Bielsa, and since I don't rate the master I won't rate the disciple either.

Personally the closest team to the peak Barça I've seen is Sampaoli's Chile:
Sampaoli is also a disciple and admirer of Bielsa Laughing
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Post by Donuts Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:57 am

Winter is Coming wrote:I heard Neymar will be playing in the center tomorrow?
Well Xavi and Iniesta were recently injured so hopefully he'll play Cesc in the middle for the sake of not seeing him in false 9, also allows rest on xavi or whomever.
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Post by windkick Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:34 am

Neymar is confirmed to be the 9.

Tello and Alba should both be available; both are back from injury.

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Post by danyjr Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:55 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Sampaoli is also a disciple and admirer of Bielsa Laughing
He has surpassed his master.
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Post by The Sanchez Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:39 am

For those who didn't know Cesc is suspended for this match so Neymar is well in truly starting at CF
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Post by jibers Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:00 am

The closest I've seen to peak Barcelona is...surprise surprise...Bayern...
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Post by billy_gr Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:01 pm

even before Pep though
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Post by futbol Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:44 pm

They play nothing like Pep's Barca, not even with Pep as coach. Lazy comparison. Where do you see them producing magic like this surrounded by 10 defenders in a telephone booth?



30 % of their goals come from set pieces and penals this season. Another large chunk are Mandzukic headers. Yesterday their first goal came from a route 1 Dante long ball to Müller. Their second goal came from a scramble in the box after a corner kick. Their CL winning goal was assisted by Neuer, lol. People look at Pep and the possession numbers and think they play like Barca. Lazy comparison. Jibs, I'm disappoint.

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Post by Valkyrja Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:09 pm

They are much more versatile than Pepcelona, being capable of adapting their style to their opponent, or use different tactics, something that Pepcelona couldn't. They can score from distance, from open play, from set-pieces, can play long-balls, can play a possession game.
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Post by futbol Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:04 pm

Circumstances. Pepcelona didn't need to adapt to anyone. We could come to the Bernabeu and force you to play Pepe, Diara, Alonso in midfield because you shat yourself. Why start to play long balls then? lol

Bayern's "versatility" didn't help them against Inter in 2010, Chelsea in 2012 or Chelsea in 2013 (2-2 before penalties). They looked just as "clueless" against those uber defensive teams as Pepcelona. Of course no one started a "Bayern need a targetman" or "plan B" debate as it always happened with Pepcelona.

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Post by DuringTheWar Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:31 pm

futbol wrote:




Oh my word..... (im not referring to the football)
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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:53 pm

DuringTheWar wrote:
futbol wrote:




Oh my word..... (im not referring to the football)

lol, that's just a goal like any other goal..
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Post by jibers Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:01 pm

futbol wrote:Circumstances. Pepcelona didn't need to adapt to anyone. We could come to the Bernabeu and force you to play Pepe, Diara, Alonso in midfield because you shat yourself. Why start to play long balls then? lol

Bayern's "versatility" didn't help them against Inter in 2010, Chelsea in 2012 or Chelsea in 2013 (2-2 before penalties). They looked just as "clueless" against those uber defensive teams as Pepcelona. Of course no one started a "Bayern need a targetman" or "plan B" debate as it always happened with Pepcelona.

The style is the same but the players are different. Bayern can't open up teams as easily because Xaviesta and Messi can release the ball much later in tight spaces. Stylistically they are almost identical, tactically the fullbacks are far more involved in the build up. They can afford to cross becaue Mandzukic is probably the best header of the ball bar Ronaldo.

Having Messi opens up spaces in places that Bayern just cannot do. The principles are very much the same tbh. The pressing is nowhere near that of Barcelona in 2011, but neither was the 08/09 pressing when pep started coaching the 1st team.
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Post by Winter is Coming Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:29 pm

Donuts wrote:
Winter is Coming wrote:I heard Neymar will be playing in the center tomorrow?
Well Xavi and Iniesta were recently injured so hopefully he'll play Cesc in the middle for the sake of not seeing him in false 9, also allows rest on xavi or whomever.

The Sanchez confirmed it, but I had a feeling he's suspended, so no Cesc at all tomorrow. We may see more of Roberto.
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Post by futbol Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:40 pm

jibs, there are mechanisms that resemble Pep's Barcelona. After all it's Pep coaching them. 4-3-3 (don't know why the press is spouting 4-1-4-1, it's 4-3-3, fss), single defensive pivot, high line, high pressure, building from the back at all cost, fullbacks playing very high up the pitch. But that's that. In the final third they operate completely differently. The main characteristic of Pepcelona was that they would combine their way through the middle against anyone in the tightest of spaces. Another example:



Bayern don't have that combinational play at all in the final third. Thiago is their most gifted player now in that respect and the reason why Pep "needed" him. Bayern open up the pitch through the wings, cross it in etc. The key to their game isn't their central axis. It's their wingers and fullbacks. They play much more like a "conventional" team, just better than other "conventional" teams. Dortmund's main tactics to stop them in recent years was to double up constantly on Ribery and Robben. Tito after the losses last season also highlighted Ribery and Robben.

For me they are more like Real Madrid now under Ancelotti but with players that actually have a brain + workrate rather than Pepcelona. Pepcelona had a very unique style of play. When Pep says "Bayern can't play like Barcelona" I doubt he is fooling the public.

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Post by jibers Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:50 pm

futbol wrote:jibs, there are mechanisms that resemble Pep's Barcelona. After all it's Pep coaching them. 4-3-3 (don't know why the press is spouting 4-1-4-1, it's 4-3-3, fss), single defensive pivot, high line, high pressure, building from the back at all cost, fullbacks playing very high up the pitch. But that's that. In the final third they operate completely differently. The main characteristic of Pepcelona was that they would combine their way through the middle against anyone in the tightest of spaces. Another example:



Bayern don't have that combinational play at all in the final third. Thiago is their most gifted player now in that respect and the reason why Pep "needed" him. Bayern open up the pitch through the wings, cross it in etc. The key to their game isn't their central axis. It's their wingers and fullbacks. They play much more like a "conventional" team. Dortmund's main tactics to stop them in recent years was to double up constantly on Ribery and Robben. Tito after the losses last season also highlighted Ribery and Robben.

For me they are more like Real Madrid now under Ancelotti but with players that actually have a brain + workrate rather than Pepcelona. Pepcelona had a very unique style of play. When Pep says "Bayern can't play like Barcelona" I doubt he is fooling the public.

Thats what I meant dude. With Xavi, iniesta, Busquets and Messi, Barcelona could hold the ball and release it a lot later. Basically Pep always wanted them to draw opposition towards them and release the ball as late as they could so it was harder for the opposition to recover their positioning. Xaviesta, Busquets and Messi in terms of close control are up there with any player in history, and I'm not exaggerating, coupled with the intelligence meant that Barcelona could retain the ball in the centre while they use mf rotation.

Mole and I are one of the few people that said that that was the exact reason Pep wanted Thiago although Thiago's decision making can improve. Bayern have to 'restart' play a lot more often than Pepcelona because when teams park the bus they simply get croded out, so they pass the ball back to the cbs and GKs a lot more than Pepcelona ever did. Again that is down to the players, the system and the style are identical. The pressing is nowhere near as intense as last season or 2011 Barcelona but more like 08/09 Barcelona. Bayern have the intelligence but not the close control which is why they will have to probably do a lot more to draw out the opposition. Although Gotze is helping to alleviate that problem from the centre.

This is another reason I believe the full backs are more involved with the build up play for Bayern. Bayern have to cross and be more versatile simply because they have no player on Messi's level. Most of the instances where Bayern got crowded out, Messi would weave through and probably play a diagonal ball into an oncoming fullback/winger, he does this at astonishing speed as well. Bayerns versatility is good but it is a must because they cannot execute it the same way as Pepecelona so they have to vary up their play in the final 3rd.


Last edited by jibers on Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:21 pm

nice going, you two, very good posts.
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Post by futbol Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:24 pm

lol, first time in a while where I can say I actually agree with my discussion partner. jibbers. Proud

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