Re: Champions League: Match-day 6

by sportsczy Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:37 pm

Arsenal got a draw with Barca the year they won the CL and La Liga double... Arsenal also beat Bayern last year in the return leg of CL and actually gave them a scare (only team in CL).

So what's your point?

by RealGunner Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:38 pm

There is only one elite team that is Bayern. Others are in the 'very good' category. Like Barcelona. Then there are others.

by S Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:38 pm

A club that sells its best players to its title rival isnt called having elite aspirations Laughing

by jibers Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:39 pm

sportsczy wrote:
jibers wrote:
sportsczy wrote:Lol. Real are elite because we've actually beaten Barca repeatedly in their prime (this past Barca win was their first since Jan 2012 against us) + in the last 11 years, we've won 4 La Liga crowns and finished 2nd 6 other times + we've made it to 3 straight CL semis + our squad is clearly elite. Before Mou joined, we weren't elite. But i have to give him credit for fixing that at least, although i don't like his methods or personality.

Any more questions? Didn't think so.

You beat them 2 times, once in copa after playing negatively all game and again 2-1 with half of their squad out. Last year Barcelona where not in their prime. Arsenal actually beat a full strength Barcelona playing attacking football 2-1. So yea...for all the Barca beating you gave BVB still raped you 4-1. FFS last season your reserves battered BArca...

That's false. We beat them in CDR semis in 2013 semis, 2013 super cup, April 2012 La Liga clasico, draw in October 2012 La Liga clasico and beat them in March 2013 La Liga clasico. That's 2 tie wins, 2 La Liga wins and 1 draw in that span. Pretty much owned them for that stretch. They owned us before that, so all you Barca fans relax lol. This last loss was the first one in a looooooong time for Madrid.

You said Peak Barcelona. Peak Barcelona ended when pep left or even before

I'll bring up the results under Mourinho

Barcelona-Madrid
5-0
1-1
0-1
2-0
1-1
2-2
3-2
3-1
1-0
2-2
2-1

Real's record is 5-4-2

Last season was NOT peak Barcelona eveident by Bayern molesting them 7-0 and Milan beating them and needing a Messi escape. You beat Barcelona 1-0 in copa after Iker had the game of his life and you parked the plane. You beat Barcelona 2-1 at Nou camp with half their team injured. In all those games Madrid had a fully fit squad...

by Gil Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:42 pm

Barcelona have one off year and they're suddenly not elite? They've been in the CL Semi's for like 5/6 seasons in a row now.

They've won 2 out of the last 5 CL titles and 4 out of their 5 domestic League titles.

We mustn't forget they have the best player of all time in their ranks. World Cup/multi-Euro winners like Iniesta, Xavi & Busquets and by far the best young talent in World Fooball in Nerman.

If that's not elite then what the hell is?

by jibers Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:43 pm

RealGunner wrote:There is only one elite team that is Bayern. Others are in the 'very good' category. Like Barcelona. Then there are others.

This. Bayern are the only elite team. Real are 3rd in a 2 horse league ffs! Atletico as far as I'm concerned have a better chance than Real seeing as they are actually better.

by jibers Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:44 pm

Gil wrote:Barcelona have one off year and they're suddenly not elite? They've been in the Semi's for like 5/6 seasons in a row now.

They've won 2 out of the last 5 CL titles and 4 out of their 5 League titles.

We mustn't forget they have the best player of all time in their ranks. World Cup/multi-Euro winners like Iniesta, Xavi & Busquets and by far the best young talent in World Fooball in Nerman.

If that's not elite then what the hell is?

Again if you want to tell me they are even close to 2011 levels, that is your issue. There is only one elite team. I would back Arsenal against every team bar Bayern.

by Hapless_Hans Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:45 pm

rwo power wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:The simple fact is we lost, and complainig about referees is NEVER a helpful or sensible thing to do.

(Except for that Ovrebo Chelsea thing, maybe)
Well, personally, I tend to complain about refs in need of guiding dogs, too - and for some reason they seem to go forth and multiply recently....

Well, of course I complain about referees too, shout at them and abuse them and so forth, but that's what you do DURING the game, or as a general thing.
What I meant was it's self-defeating to use it in an argument, for example on an online forum, in order to justify a defeat you've suffered.

by Pedram Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:45 pm

LeVersacci wrote:Pogba: We will take 4 points from Madrid

Couldn't take 4 points from Galatasaray let alone Real Madrid. rofl

by S Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:46 pm

@Sportsczy

My point is,you cant classify them as elite just because they beat those two teams in their primes.Eventually they dint even make it through and they havent even won any significant silverware in a while yet.Cant believe this is even a discussion.

by Hapless_Hans Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:50 pm

jibers wrote:
Gil wrote:Barcelona have one off year and they're suddenly not elite? They've been in the Semi's for like 5/6 seasons in a row now.

They've won 2 out of the last 5 CL titles and 4 out of their 5 League titles.

We mustn't forget they have the best player of all time in their ranks. World Cup/multi-Euro winners like Iniesta, Xavi & Busquets and by far the best young talent in World Fooball in Nerman.

If that's not elite then what the hell is?

Again if you want to tell me they are even close to 2011 levels, that is your issue. There is only one elite team. I would back Arsenal against every team bar Bayern.

Well, then it must have been pretty harsh seeing your beloved Arsenal being beaten at Old Trafford, right Wink

I don't agree we are above the rest, at least not by default. But that's also because we ourselves can't allow ourselves that thought, as was clearly visible yesterday.

Also I don't rate Arsenal that highly just yet. "On their day" they can beat everyone, that's true, I'm just not sure how much the occurrence of "their day" is of their own making, or dependent on their opponents not having their day.

by urbaNRoots Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:53 pm

Since when is jibers an Arsenal fan? scratch

by sportsczy Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:53 pm

S wrote:@Sportsczy

My point is,you cant classify them as elite just because they beat those two teams in their primes.Eventually they dint even make it through and they havent even won any significant silverware in a while yet.Cant believe this is even a discussion.

I'm not responding to you lol. I agree. Jibers mentioned that Barca was not elite for a period since they struggled in a game against Barca. My point to him is that Arsenal is a good team... not elite, but a good team. Have always been good to elite under Wenger despite what people may say. You don't make CL every single year and get out of pool almost every single year if you're not at least good.

by DeletedUser#1 Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:54 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:Since when is jibers an Arsenal fan?

Jibers was that African dude who converted to Arsenalism over the weekend Proud

by Pedram Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:54 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:Since when is jibers an Arsenal fan?

Jibers supports any team that is doing well.

Spoiler:

by Rebaño Sagrado Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:55 pm

Natalie Portman wrote:
urbaNRoots wrote:Since when is jibers an Arsenal fan?

Jibers was that African dude who converted to Arsenalism over the weekend

by urbaNRoots Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:56 pm

LOOOOOL

wtf

by Sri Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:00 pm

Why is the discussion even centered about who is elite? Go back to where it started, or am I forgetting after reading through about 10 pages of Arsenal bashing.

It's not fair to compare our years of financial constriction, a.k.a. trophyless years, with our current team. We have a 5 point gap in the lead, and I see no other team leading their respective (top 5) leagues has a 5 point gap. Does it matter? No. It is not even mid way into the season.

Did we obliterate our transfer record this year? Yes.
Are we playing true to our style? Yes.
Do we have a good squad, capable of competing? With a good back up striker in January, why not.
Are we doing a better job of managing our personnel through injuries and/or suspension? I think playing 3 months with no recognized wingers, with midfielders deputizing in those positions, is a good sign.
Have we beaten big teams in the recent past? Yes, if you look at most individual results.
But does that matter till now? No. Because we are not in the KO stages.

Keep hating and underrating us. We could do with people not jumping on our wagon just yet. As somebody pointed out, top of the league and top of the "group of death" is a fair indication of how the current squad is doing till now - "current" and "till now" being the key phrases.

As for the rest, I prefer looking forward to what we achieve at the end of this season rather than worrying about whether Goal Legacy thinks we are elite or not tonight.

by Hapless_Hans Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:09 pm

we built a stadium, too Wink

By the way, who was bashing, underrating or hating Arsenal? If I see it right, the discussion was whether you're better than Real, Barca etc or just as good as them, so be happy.

by Lex Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:18 pm

Nah, this all started because I wanted Motherwell in Europe over Serie A teams

by Sri Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:27 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:we built a stadium, too

By the way, who was bashing, underrating or hating Arsenal? If I see it right, the discussion was whether you're better than Real, Barca etc or just as good as them, so be happy.

As I said, I may be forgetting after reading through 10 odd pages, but that was the distinct impression I had at the end of it.

Again, building the stadium can't be compared as an individual event - we never have had the commercial muscle of Man Utd or Real Madrid or Barca or Munich. We tied ourselves down to long term deals for front ending the finances, just as the Abramovichs and Sheikh Mansours walked in. It's not an alibi in any way, and nor am I saying we were victims of the circumstances. Things happen the way they did, but to discount all the background evidence and purely harp about "trophy drought" is just ignorant to me.

Besides, it was not like we were absolute shit despite the restrictions we had. One of my biggest gripes with a vast majority of Wenger-bashers is that they fail to recognize how much he achieved and with such amazing consistency despite having to rely on youth and bargain buys through all these years. We came close to the title twice in this period before we shot ourselves in the foot, had massive injury blows like Eduardo, Rosicky, Diaby and Ramsey which shattered the mental strength of a relatively young squad and had to endure through times of player we showered with our love and support completely betraying us by walking out the doors to join teams we still considered rivals cuz despite everything, we tried to compete for honours and not just coast through our transitional phase.

And yet we have other clubs going through these transitional phases without a sniff of elite competitions or consistent top finishes. Trophies are ultimately the objective, nobody is denying that. But to trash talk what Wenger has achieved despite our limitations in these years is, for me, the ignorance and injustice I referred to earlier.

by halamadrid2 Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:40 pm

There are many elite teams right now. not only Bayern, Barca or Madrid

Arsenal have not quite been in that bracket yet but they can be in a season or two. United are as well. These are teams that no matter how bad they play domestically will always be very diffferent when the situation arises where they are pressured to win to go through

Then the teams can have off seasons here and there which doesn't necessarily take them out of the elite bracker

As for CL favourites that depends on who has been strongest for a long stretch of time. Despite us reaching 3 semis in a row I don't think we are favourites to do it again. There are alot of things you have to factor in before deciding your favourites. As it goes now my favourites for the cl titles goes like this:

Bayern
Atleti
Psg, Real, Barca
Arsenal, Dortmund, Chelsea
United, City
the rest

Alot of things can obviously change between now and the knockout stages so you can't draw any conclusions right now imo

by BORUSSIA!! Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:41 pm

ahahahah second year in a row topping the group of death

keep crying haters saying last season was a fluke hahahahaha

by flameas Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:42 pm

Sad, sad.. Napoli really deserved it

by futbol Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:43 pm

Arsenal.

by Hapless_Hans Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:44 pm

lol how on earth did Dortmund manage to win that group?

also, I like that Napoli is being punished in 87th minute by that Dortmund winner right when they start passing that ball from left to right in their own half for 2 minutes.. why didn't they go for it earlier?!

and how all German teams managed to progress with such erratic performances by Bayer Schalke and BVB is a mystery to me as well...

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